Why I don't think this will work

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TBpup said:
I think it was on 620 AM this morning they were talking about the TYPE of offense the Blazers run and how Dame/CJ have to run endlessly in that damn weave just to create a shot. Apparently HoF'er Hubie Brown had brought up that point and someone had asked Stotts about it.....to which not much of a response was given.

So if they run so much on offense, they perhaps are a little more tired and aren't able to give as much on the defensive end.
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And in the last three minutes of games when, with tired legs, they are expected to make clutch shots under heavy pressure.
 
Glad some of y'all are finally realizing it's a coaching problem
 
BonesJones said:
Glad some of y'all are finally realizing it's a coaching problem
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Oh it's a coaching problem, but it's a player problem too. We don't have the chemistry we did last year. There is no trust. Players are not believing in themselves or each other. Dame and CJ are both great offensive tools, but they lack defense, and have become complacent next to each other, there needs to be hunger, a desire to win, and I'm just not seeing that.
 
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Start Turner next to Dame and bring CJ off the bench
 
Turner in place of McCollum sounds like a nightmare for spacing.

Also, what's supposed to be the intended purpose of putting McCollum on the bench? If you still intend to play him the same number of minutes, you don't need to bench him to split him and Lillard up as much as possible. If you intend to play him fewer minutes, that'll just make the team even worse.
 
Minstrel said:
Turner in place of McCollum sounds like a nightmare for spacing.

Also, what's supposed to be the intended purpose of putting McCollum on the bench? If you still intend to play him the same number of minutes, you don't need to bench him to split him and Lillard up as much as possible. If you intend to play him fewer minutes, that'll just make the team even worse.
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you can hide one bad defender at a time
 
riverman said:
you can hide one bad defender at a time
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So, as I said, if the idea is to split them up while still preserving all of McCollum's minutes, you can do that without benching McCollum. If the idea is to actually reduce McCollum's minutes--that's just going to make a team worse, getting fewer minutes from one of their best players, bad defense or not.
 
The idea with this roster is to maximize defensive and offensive production without losing a step....Dame is clearly tired at the end of games from fighting through double teams so he's been getting more and more of his points early with fresh legs....CJ seems to be morphing into a closer...they can play exactly the same minutes ...just in different roles...teams have game planned for our guards all season...having backcourt length early can keep a team on it's heels...tire them out for a change. I think splitting them also lights a fire under other players who need to pick up some scoring and be double digit scorers consistently....Turner had 24 last night as a starter
 
riverman said:
having backcourt length early can keep a team on it's heels...tire them out for a change.
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Possibly. It would also likely strangle the offense early, leading to slow starts. Without McCollum, the team is going to have almost no shooting outside of Lillard, which means Lillard is going to have a defender glued to his chest with the rest of the defense camped out in the paint.
 
Minstrel said:
Possibly. It would also likely strangle the offense early, leading to slow starts. Without McCollum, the team is going to have almost no shooting outside of Lillard, which means Lillard is going to have a defender glued to his chest with the rest of the defense camped out in the paint.
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without CJ taking early shots in volume..you might get double digit scoring out of Turner or even Vonleh early...the ball sticks with CJ
 
riverman said:
without CJ taking early shots in volume..you might get double digit scoring out of Turner or even Vonleh early...the ball sticks with CJ
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CJ shares the ball at least as much as Turner.
 
riverman said:
without CJ taking early shots in volume..you might get double digit scoring out of Turner or even Vonleh early...the ball sticks with CJ
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It's not a question of "scoring" (though, even if it were, there's no way Turner or Vonleh can even approach McCollum's quality of attempts)--it's spacing. With minimal shooting on the floor around Lillard, the defense has a lot less area to guard and can much more effectively choke off the offense.
 
If you bring CJ off the bench, and play him the same amount of minutes, then you'd have Lillard and CJ together against mostly bench units. That's not a good thing, because they've shown to let bench players look like all stars. Instead it letting those who normally do damage do their damage then defending well soonest bench units, instead you'd have starters still doing damage with bench players going off too.

CJ would also have to play 17-18 minutes to end each half, as subbing in a bench player before 6 minutes into each half defeats the "purpose" of bringing him off the bench. So CJ would be gassed at the end of each half.

Only way to fix that would be to play him less, making us worse.

Bringing him off the bench would make things worse, and playing him less would make things worse. This is the best way to go.
 
handiman said:
CJ shares the ball at least as much as Turner.
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CJ loves to dribble and Turner is a good passer if guys actually catch his passes and finish, he'd have more assists..CJ has been with the system and roster for years....Turner is learning on the fly...different skill sets
 
riverman said:
CJ loves to dribble and Turner is a good passer if guys actually catch his passes and finish, he'd have more assists..CJ has been with the system and roster for years....Turner is learning on the fly...different skill sets
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Turner is a good passer but you're underestimating McCollum's playmaking for others.

Turner has about a 20% Assist Rate (Assist Rate is the percentage of team field goals that the player assisted on during their time on the floor) both this year and for his career. McCollum has averaged a 20% Assist Rate over last season and this season (he was a much worse creator in his first two seasons). So, honestly, while Turner may have the reputation as a creator for others and McCollum may not--they're pretty equivalent in that respect. McCollum passing the ball productively is not a problem for the Blazers.
 
Minstrel said:
Turner is a good passer but you're underestimating McCollum's playmaking for others.

Turner has about a 20% Assist Rate (Assist Rate is the percentage of team field goals that the player assisted on during their time on the floor) both this year and for his career. McCollum has averaged a 20% Assist Rate over last season and this season (he was a much worse creator in his first two seasons). So, honestly, while Turner may have the reputation as a creator for others and McCollum may not--they're pretty equivalent in that respect. McCollum passing the ball productively is not a problem for the Blazers.
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McCollum knows his teammates a bit better than Turner, but c'mon...CJ wants to dribble and shoot...not pass first..CJ is a great player...I think it's a lot more than that though...Turner once comfortable is a better passer, rebounder and defender...CJ is a shooter
 
riverman said:
McCollum knows his teammates a bit better than Turner, but c'mon...CJ wants to dribble and shoot...not pass first..CJ is a great player...I think it's a lot more than that though...Turner once comfortable is a better passer, rebounder and defender...CJ is a shooter
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I think you just have baked-in perceptions about the players, even though the data suggests otherwise. Also, "knowing your teammates" and how to get them the ball productively is a sign of a good and willing passer--just saying. ;)

Incidentally, Turner's Assist Rate this season is the same as his career average--it's not lower than normal as he "learns his teammates." He's passing as productively as he always has. McCollum is just passing equally productively. Maybe McCollum is more than a dribbler and shooter.
 
I think Turner looks for his own shot before looking to pass as much or more than CJ. To me it seems like usually when CJ has the ball, he's a threat to do either, you don't really know. With Turner, he's either going to do one or the other, and you know which one it is right away.
 
Minstrel said:
think you just have baked-in perceptions about the players
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I get that a lot, but my opinion about roster use doesn't have really measurable data yet...we're not doing what I think would work and stats aside...the biggest stat to me is we're not winning much or controlling games often. It's ok...my thoughts about CJ are not popular around here and I love the guy's game and think he's worth every penny...I'd use him differently...scoring punch guy.
 
The Blazers actually hung in against the Thunder but when our back court is outscored by anyone else's back court, we have almost no shot. Being outscored (and out-defended) by Westbrook/Oladipo......there is not shame in that. It's the being taken to task by (Not Steph) Curry and a 10-day contract smurf that is overly frustrating
 
I think something nobody mentions is that improvement has been dull from our new contract guys. I give Turner a pass but if Crabbe, Leonard, Mo, Ed and offensively Chief had made a significant leap in their games.....we'd have a better record...like them or not, I think this has to frustrate Stotts and Olshey..they, like us, probably expected more....a lot of this I put on individuals more than the system or opportunity...Leonard didn't make the leap at all from what I see. Right now we're a 3 man team....Dame CJ and Mason....we have nobody averaging a double double on the roster
 
riverman said:
Right now we're a 3 man team....Dame CJ and Mason....we have nobody averaging a double double on the roster
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And with the messed up contract/cap situation, we may not have Mason next season

I would like to write this season off, and start experimenting with new lineups. Lets give the project players some burn.

BUT, we keep skipping into and out of the playoff bracket. Stotts has to play to make the playoffs. Which is a shame since this roster is going nowhere in the post season.

We are stuck in no-mans land, the worst place to be. With no end in sight, this is getting very frustrating.
 
oldfisherman said:
And with the messed up contract/cap situation, we may not have Mason next season

I would like to write this season off, and start experimenting with new lineups. Lets give the project players some burn.

BUT, we keep skipping into and out of the playoff bracket. Stotts has to play to make the playoffs. Which is a shame since this roster is going nowhere in the post season.

We are stuck in no-mans land, the worst place to be. With no end in sight, this is getting very frustrating.
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I think there's a good chance we don't make the playoffs...I'd love to give Vonleh bigger minutes and even throw Layman into the mix to see if their talents can get a jumpstart. Our 3rd string has a lot of potential. Connaughton is probably our best hustle guy...if he found his stroke, he'd make a huge improvement..passes well, defends. I'd also love to see Paul Allen invest in a real D league franchise totally owned by the Blazers and use it.
 
riverman said:
I'd also love to see Paul Allen invest in a real D league franchise totally owned by the Blazers and use it.
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I'm not sure how much sense it makes for a team to own and pump resources into a D League team when the players on the team aren't contractually obligated to the NBA team. Like, Briante Weber, the guy the Warriors just signed, came from the Miami Heat's affiliated D League team. Weber could have signed with anyone he chose. So, it's not like a farm team. It would almost be like an NBA team owner donating tons of money to a college program, like Duke, even though none of Duke's players may ever play for you.
 
oldfisherman said:
BUT, we keep skipping into and out of the playoff bracket. Stotts has to play to make the playoffs. Which is a shame since this roster is going nowhere in the post season.
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Yeah, the wins against CLE, BOS, and MEM really screwed us. Had we lost those we'd be 3rd worst in the West, and the optics would make it easier to give up on that cursed 8th seed. Unfortunately it appears that we're going to do battle with DEN and DAL (and maybe SAC) right down to the wire - meaning we won't be developing any of our players, and we'll get the worst lotto pick possible. Lose/lose. That's the season in a nutshell: lose/lose.
 
oldfisherman said:
And with the messed up contract/cap situation, we may not have Mason next season

I would like to write this season off, and start experimenting with new lineups. Lets give the project players some burn.

BUT, we keep skipping into and out of the playoff bracket. Stotts has to play to make the playoffs. Which is a shame since this roster is going nowhere in the post season.

We are stuck in no-mans land, the worst place to be. With no end in sight, this is getting very frustrating.
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So.....purgatory.
 
Minstrel said:
when the players on the team aren't contractually obligated to the NBA team.
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see Austin Toros and how the Spurs used them..the rules have changed for D league with the new CBA....I'd like it to mirror baseballs minor league system but I still think being proactive in D league development is good...It's not like Oregon has so many sports choices....a D league in Eugene would rock!
 
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