Why is Larry Brooks drooling over Santorelli

[theProdigy223]

He calls him the "gritty" Maple Leaf that would solve this team's bottom 6 issues and has "a large measure of grit to accompany his talent."

Has Larry ever watched him play? I'm not saying he's soft and he's absolutely a hard worker. In fact there's a lot of chatter that the Leafs want to keep him because of his work ethic. But at the end of the day he's another guy who's under 190 pounds and has thrown just 44 hits this year. To put that in perspective, Fast is listed as 4 pounds lighter and has thrown 75 hits this year. Is that really the kind of player that is going to solve our bottom 6 issues? Where's the size? Come on Larry. And he even suggests trading Miller for him. Outrageous.

Here's a blurb on Daniel Winnik from the Toronto Sun today:

"Winnik leads the NHL in penalty-killing time for a forward and is actually second overall in time spent shorthanded among all players. The Leafs are an impressive 83.4% while playing a man short, which alone should make Winnik attractive to many clubs. He can also play the grind game, which makes him playoff-ready. His pending free agency and his desire to double his salary is the reason the Leafs will move him."

4G, 16A this year, 6'2, 213 lbs, signed for one year at 1.3m. Absolutely blows my mind we gave Glass that contract and didnt go after this guy. Winnik is the kind of player that would help this team in the bottom 6. Santorelli just gives us more of what we already have: a nice but somewhat undersized hard-working player who will get trampled in the playoffs.

Vermette should be target number 1, he's a bigger and better Santorelli and better at the dots. If he's two pricy, get Winnik. Pass on Santorelli.

 

[chuckd3534]

Here is the issue, Winnik IMO won't solve the bottom 6 issues. We need someone to score, Santorelli is a 16 or 17 goal guy, Winnik is a 6 or 7 goal guy. Sant solves the scoring, Winnik would help with the size.

I would love Winnik, and have acutally talked about us trying to get both from the Leafs many times. I think Winnik is a perfect fit for the 4th line. I don't think he would solve our 3rd line and scoring issues though. I say get them both...Sant and Winnik.

Issue with Vermette is so many teams want him AND his cap hit is higher. That is going to make him more difficult to obtain for us. Not impossible, but more difficult.

 

[theProdigy223]

I thought about your argument of getting both and while that might not be a bad idea, I dont see why the Leafs would trade both to the same team. If you're the Leafs, wouldnt you try to deal them separately and maximize returns on both? Have two separate bidding wars going on? I see no way we get both without severely overpaying.

And as for Santorelli scoring goals, his numbers are not all that different than Stempniak's over the past few years. Might as well just put Stempniak on the 3rd line if that's all we're looking for.

 

[chuckd3534]

I don't disagree, it would be a long shot to get both. Just saying that is what we need. To me Winnik, as much as I would LOVE to have him, does not solve our 3rd line scoring depth issues.

As for Sant and Stemp I don't see it.

Sant is on pace for 17 goals and 44 points this season. Stemp is on pace for 10 goals and 24 points, and had 2 goals in his first 3 games, which means 4 goals in his last 40 games. Clear edge Sant.

Last season in 73 games Stemp had 12 goals and 34 points. In 49 games Sant had 10 goals and 28 points. 15 goals and 42 points over 73 games. Edge Sant.

So this season and last season Sant is a better scorer than Stemp no doubt. Plus Stemp is going down and Sant is getting better. Plus Sant can play C and Stemp does not. And the fact that Sant is a + 6 on that awful Leafs team speaks really well of him (# 3 on the team...# 1 is Winnik at + 12...I would love Winnik here). So Sant is a better play IMO no doubt.

With that said I don't think Sant by himself is enough. That is why if we add Sant I think we need another forward with some size added, a guy like Winnik. Sant could complete the 3rd line with Hayes and Hags, but I think we'd need another little boost if he was the guy.

Vermette is a perfect fit here, but he is also a perfect fit in many places, hence the high interest and high asking price. Love to get him though.

 

[Ranger71]

Glen needs to hypnotize Don Maloney.."you will give me Vermette..you know you want to give me Vermette..for only McIldope(vincent price voice)

 

[chuckd3534]

The Rangers, Habs, Bruins, Red Wings, Ducks and Avs are interested in Vermette though the price is a first round pick and either a prospect or a young roster player. (TSN)

 

[chuckd3534]

6 teams, although I think you can take the Avs out of it as they are done. Still 5 teams and a 1st round pick, which we don't have, and a prospect or a young roster player.

Without a 1st I bet we'd need to include Miller, which is a pass for sure.

Again, Vermette will not be our guy unless the price really comes down (maybe it comes down a little) and other teams pass on him leaving us and 1 other team maybe (very doubtful).

 

[theProdigy223]

I would be very, very surprised if AZ landed a first round pick for Vermette. Perron got a first round pick and he's a top 6 scorer with term left on his deal. Rentals rarely bring back first round picks, let alone a 1st and a prospect for a guy who's ideally a 3C. I could be wrong but my guess is that itll be a second rounder, and the team who throws in the best prospect wins. Lindberg? McIlrath? Does he have value around the league?

On another note I saw an article today that linked us to Winnik along with basically the same teams linked to Vermette.

 

[puck2]

wow Vincent Price. you must be of a certain age

 

[chuckd3534]

I love Winnik. He would be a great fit for grit, but doesn't help with scoring or faceoffs, so Sather might not love him. His cap hit is perfect though, which could be another issue with Vermette.

 

[cagedlion]

I have a problem with Vermette. He is an old 32. Sather would pay
dearly for older player. Not worth it. Besides Maloney is biding his
time.........waiting for a GM to ante the pot. There always is one.
And I hope it is not Sather.

Look at Marty St. Louis. Yes, he is 40 and looks old out on the ice.
Vermette is too much esp. with the Rangers' cap space.

 

[Ranger71]

I would offer the 2 2nds and maybe include two prospects like Tambellini and Lindberg, though id like to keep him. Mcilrath has about as much value as coal on a ny streetcorner in the summer.

 

[kreidertime]

You on smack if you offer up 2, 2nd rounders, Tambellini and Lindberg for a role playing rental.

 

[kreidertime]

Today the moron goes on to write about getting Kaleta. Larry should just retire already. He has no clue any longer.

 

[Ranger71]

Vermette is probably worth that Dump, he'd be a solid help.

 

[chuckd3534]

He is not worth that. Why would I give up two 2nd's and two prospects for 1 month and playoffs of Vermette. Way too much. Vermette is a solid player, he is not a top 3 forward. He is a borderline top 6 forward. Better suited for the 3rd line.

I would rather get Santorelli AND Winnik and give up the same or less.

 

[chuckd3534]

2/14/15 | 6:53AM: The Leafs current asking price for Santorelli is “beyond reason” and the Rangers are not biting at the moment. (NY Post)

2/13/15 | 2:45PM: There is a 85% chance that Santorelli is traded. (TSN)

 

[chuckd3534]

I wouldn't mind Kaleta, but only if he cost a 7th rounder or low prospect. He'd be a depth 4th line type guy.

 

[kreidertime]

Other than faceoffs Vermette is not a difference maker. You can add a faceoff guy for a fraction of that cost. Biggest faceoff problem right now is Stepan and AV's lack of balls to have him stop taking them.

 

[Ranger71]

I don't know why they have interest in Santorelli, he's no better than D. Moore really. As for Vermette, a good 3rd liner like him is worth 2 low 2nds and a b-guy like Tamb. Ill agree throwing in Lindberg was too much, plus i really dont want to lose him.

 

[chuckd3534]

Sant is on pace for 16 goals and 42 points this season. In 49 games last year he scored 10 goals and 28 points (a 17 goal and 47 point pace over 82 games).
Moore is on pace for 8 goals and 24 points this season. And last season had 6 goals and 18 points in 73 games (a 7 goal and 20 point pace over 82 games).

Not saying I love Sant, but he is clearly better than Moore from an offensive pov. I admire how you don't let facts get in the way though....

 

[Stepupstepan]

DMoore brings a lot of other intangibles other than offense. Don't know much about sant's game though.

 

[strudwickisthebest]

I was just gonna post about those intangible step, Moore is the ideal 4th line center

 

[theProdigy223]

Bergenheim asked for a trade out of Florida. Pending UFA, decent size and skating. Should definitely not cost much, but not a F/O or PK guy and won't help the top 9. Would rather have him than that piece of shit Kaleta though.

 

[strudwickisthebest]

Miller seems to have a spot so I think they acquire one forward and maybe a 6th D

 

[theProdigy223]

While we're discussing Moore, he's having a hell of a season and deserves some props. Still a plus player with 15 or so points while playing with that black hole Glass. Our only reliable faceoff guy. He's been great and I'm glad we got him for another year.

 

[strudwickisthebest]

Yeah I think Brooks is a little off on Kaletta, they got lucky with DC last year I don't see Kaleta doing what DC did

 

[strudwickisthebest]

I really wanted to see last years team win The cup because of the players they had. So I hope they can win during Dominic Moore's tenure. And I hope the Kings never make it to the playoffs again fuck that team lucky bastards

 

[chuckd3534]

Couldn't agree more, Moore is the perfect 4th line C. Sant is a 3rd line guy though. He can take faceoffs as well.

If Miller can stick on the 3rd line and complete the trio with Hags and Hayes, maybe we can shift our focus to more of a gritty faceoff guy with some O, 8-10 goal guy, but more size/grit than goal scoring.

Then we can bump Glass out and play Moore, Winnik, Fast or Stemp on the 4th line. That is a deep team assuming Miller can complete the 3rd line. The only issue we'd have though is faceoffs, that is why I don't think Winnik will be our guy.

 

[Ranger71]

The stats may be different but i don't think Santorelli upgrades the team much more. Vermette would cost more but they could use more of a difference for an extra pick or prospect.