Why Lillard's move might herald the destruction of Small Market teams

[cheesehoff]

Teams get fined a shitload of money for tampering. How is what Dame is doing not the same idea as tampering, too? Don't explain what tampering is. I know. My point is that if a team can get in trouble for talking to or naming a player, why shouldn't a guy who is under contract get in trouble for naming a team(s) by name?!

 

[riverman]

We've already had Clyde and Lamarcus signal the demise of small market teams...Dame didn't start this trend although I think the trend sucks...Brandon going to Minnie too

 

[riverman]

Teams get fined a shitload of money for tampering. How is what Dame is doing not the same idea as tampering, too? Don't explain what tampering is. I know. My point is that if a team can get in trouble for talking to or naming a player, why shouldn't a guy who is under contract get in trouble for naming a team(s) by name?!

I've wondered about this as well...only free agents or agents can lobby publicly

 

[blazerfan11]

We've already had Clyde and Lamarcus signal the demise of small market teams...Dame didn't start this trend although I think the trend sucks...Brandon going to Minnie too

Lamarcus went to San Antonio.

 

[riverman]

Lamarcus went to San Antonio.

I know....chasing a ring...he talked to the Lakers, the Suns and San Antonio.....San Antonio might be a small market but they had a championship core back then

 

[STOMP]

I voted other. I would have voted for the 3rd option (trade to Miami if at all possible but only if it's a fair value return), it's just that I don't think it's possible to get a fair return from their assets. It seems Lillard doesn't care 1 iota about what Portland gets back and likely wants to screw the Blazers over for not bending even futrther over backwards to please him. If so (& management probably knows whats what), Portland should just let Dame Time go tick tick tick on the sidelines until they change their Miami or Bust tune. Tiiiiiiiiiieeeeeime ain't on his side & it's not like Portland is going to win this year regardless of whats coming back.

It takes two to tango and if Dame doesn't want to be a partner in this big move and value Portland's position, why should the Blazers value his position? Desirable Free Agents will come to Portland if Scoot and Shaedon show budding promise and Joe has cleared the decks of bad contracts. Stay strong Joe!

STOMP

 

[Phatguysrule]

Trade him to whoever offers us the best deal. Unless the BS continues. I'm still okay sending him to Miami for the best return, but itwouldn't take much to get me to the "anybody but" camp.

 

[Bob Dobalina]

Trade him to whoever offers us the best deal. Unless the BS continues. I'm still okay sending him to Miami for the best return, but itwouldn't take much to get me to the "anybody but" camp.

This is probably easier said than done. Assuming teams aren't offering any deals based on the fact that Dame would allegedly hold out if not traded to Miami.

 

[Phatguysrule]

This is probably easier said than done. Assuming teams aren't offering any deals based on the fact that Dame would allegedly hold out if not traded to Miami.

Then he can sit and rot. By mid season he'll be eager to play for anybody. If not then, certainly after the season.

 

[Strenuus]

who was "whining" about the CJ pick?

it was just a missed opportunity, among a list of missed opportunities, miscalculations, and mismangement

Wasnt CJ pretty much the best pick out of the first round? lol.

 

[andalusian]

Wasnt CJ pretty much the best pick out of the first round? lol.

Giannis was picked up at #15 in the same draft. Gobert was picked up #27. I would argue that CJ is either 2nd or 3rd best pick in that draft.

 

[Strenuus]

Giannis was picked up at #15 in the same draft. Gobert was picked up #27. I would argue that CJ is either 2nd or 3rd best pick in that draft.

My bad, you right.

Well, about Giannis. Not Gobert. lol.

 

[andalusian]

My bad, you right.

Well, about Giannis. Not Gobert. lol.

Forget about his contract and I am not sure which one contributed more to winning - CJ or Gobert.

Based on basketball reference's career VORP - Gobert is at 29.2, CJ is at 17.4, WS/48 - Gobert is .221, CJ is .101 (about twice as more impactful per minute) and since they played about the same amount of minutes, career WS is double for Rudy over CJ.

Yes, I pretty much convinced myself that Rudy is the #2 best pick from the first round of that draft class.

 

[wizenheimer]

Forget about his contract and I am not sure which one contributed more to winning - CJ or Gobert.

Based on basketball reference's career VORP - Gobert is at 29.2, CJ is at 17.4, WS/48 - Gobert is .221, CJ is .101 (about twice as more impactful per minute) and since they played about the same amount of minutes, career WS is double for Rudy over CJ.

Yes, I pretty much convinced myself that Rudy is the #2 best pick from the first round of that draft class.

if you're gauging by impact, and using winshares as a primary gauge. Steven Adams has an argument over CJ. Since that draft was 10 years ago, if you just look at the gauging...

https://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2013.html

one big component is availability. VORP is cumulative and welded to availability. CJ is 3rd in minutes and 3rd in VORP. CJ is 5th in winshares., 14th in winshares/48, and 6th in BPM. I suspect CJ would be 2nd to Giannis in usage and FGA
***************************************

speaking of availability, here's a question:

which C has actually been more valuable: Nurkic who has averaged 51 games/season; or Mason Plumlee who has averaged 74?

 

[ebott]

The fact that Dame just signed that super extension seems to be a big part of the youtuber's problem with Dame demanding a trade. I really haven't been paying attention to the contract status of guys that have demanded a trade. I'd be real curious to see the numbers on guys that have demanded a trade and how much money was left on their contract.

 

[blazerfan11]

Does anyone think a disgruntled player on a big market team is somehow in a better situation for the big market team? Because that is not the case.
Josh Hart has been tweeting for Mikal Bridges to join the Knicks. I'm not saying bridges is disgruntled, but that's exactly the point. He's not disgruntled. Players are putting stuff out there like that. Even if it is in fun.

 

[blazerfan11]

Golden state was a dumpster fire before they won championships. Nobody was interested in going there.

 

[blazerfan11]

Look at where the top three draft picks went: San Antonio, Charlotte, and Portland.
There might be at sometimes a particular market that has a particular player that might have an advantage. But that isn't as often as people like to think.

 

[andalusian]

if you're gauging by impact, and using winshares as a primary gauge. Steven Adams has an argument over CJ. Since that draft was 10 years ago, if you just look at the gauging...

https://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2013.html

one big component is availability. VORP is cumulative and welded to availability. CJ is 3rd in minutes and 3rd in VORP. CJ is 5th in winshares., 14th in winshares/48, and 6th in BPM. I suspect CJ would be 2nd to Giannis in usage and FGA

Fair, Adams has a higher WS/48 - so we can certainly argue that CJ is maybe even below Adams with his impact from that draft class.

speaking of availability, here's a question:

which C has actually been more valuable: Nurkic who has averaged 51 games/season; or Mason Plumlee who has averaged 74?

Mason Plumlee for sure. Surprisingly, Plumlee had actually a higher WS/48 last year in his LAC stint as a reserve / limited role player than even the best season Nurk had (2018-2019), but I think that Nurk when healthy was clearly a better player. Injuries sure diminished his production.

BTW, anyone who claimed Stotts was holding Nurk back, his production and efficiency sure fell down after Stotts was removed.

 

[blazerfan11]

Fair, Adams has a higher WS/48 - so we can certainly argue that CJ is maybe even below Adams with his impact from that draft class..

I really wanted Adams in that draft class. I didn't know how good he would be, but I loved his personality. He also did great in the combine, and when all of the other centers were completely winded, he was still running around like he wasn't tired at all.
I wonder if Aldridge would have stayed if we had drafted Adams. Probably not, but who knows.

 

[Strenuus]

Forget about his contract and I am not sure which one contributed more to winning - CJ or Gobert.

Based on basketball reference's career VORP - Gobert is at 29.2, CJ is at 17.4, WS/48 - Gobert is .221, CJ is .101 (about twice as more impactful per minute) and since they played about the same amount of minutes, career WS is double for Rudy over CJ.

Yes, I pretty much convinced myself that Rudy is the #2 best pick from the first round of that draft class.

Oh don't get me wrong they both fucking suck.

 

[blazerfan11]

Fair, Adams has a higher WS/48 - so we can certainly argue that CJ is maybe even below Adams with his impact from that draft class.




BTW, anyone who claimed Stotts was holding Nurk back, his production and efficiency sure fell down after Stotts was removed.

Yeah, that really sucked for Nurkic. The beginning of the season with Billups they had lillard CJ and Norman, Powell and Covington. Yuck.

 

[riverman]

At this point I wouldn't be surprised if Nurk has to eat media crow and be the starting center next season until we can sign another rim protector..Badji is not that far from being able to be that guy.

 

[Idog1976]

I really wanted Adams in that draft class. I didn't know how good he would be, but I loved his personality. He also did great in the combine, and when all of the other centers were completely winded, he was still running around like he wasn't tired at all.
I wonder if Aldridge would have stayed if we had drafted Adams. Probably not, but who knows.

I wanted Adams or Giannis and moved onto team Giannis by the draft. You can look on Blazersedge and see me saying it before the draft.

 

[ebott]

At this point I wouldn't be surprised if Nurk has to eat media crow and be the starting center next season until we can sign another rim protector..Badji is not that far from being able to be that guy.

The guy in Summer league that lost us the first game cause he couldn't catch a lob pass?