Why LMA Can't get any respect? (1 Viewer)

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http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...e-cant-get-any-respect-and-how-to-change-that <-- Yes it's bleacher report; but it's a good article.

Take a look at Aldridge's numbers. If the season were to end today, Aldridge would be averaging at least 20 points and eight rebounds per game for three straight seasons.

Nobody else in the league can make the same claim during the same era. Not LeBron James, Dwight Howard or even Blake Griffin.

So why are those three guys household names, yet Aldridge is still floating largely in obscurity?

Lack of Star Power

Aldridge is a fantastic player, but not a flashy one. His game is not played above the rim; rather, he relies on excellent perimeter shooting and a much-improved low-post defensive game.

He scores, but he doesn't score in bunches. Despite scoring over 20 points per game in each of the last three seasons (obviously including this one), he only has scored 30 or more points 18 times in that stretch. He's only topped 40 points twice.

You won't see many 40-point games, but you also won't see many games of less than 10 points. He's only had seven in the last three years, including just one in each of the past two seasons.

Aldridge scores about the same amount of points every game and gets about the same amount of rebounds.

He also durable, missing only 12 games in the last three years.

That being said, his numbers are much better than a player with a nearly identical game to a player who called Portland home a decade ago.

Rasheed Wallace enjoyed his best stretch statistically as a professional from 2001-03 when he averaged between 18-19 points per game to go along with between seven and eight rebounds.

I didn't know that there hasn't been a current player to average +20 points and +8 rebounds a game. That would be awesome if Aldridge can finish this season off strong and be the only one.

BTW... You should watch his highlight video. He's got some nice post moves!



[video=youtube;oAjtZOafwHQ]
 
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I didn't know that there hasn't been a current player to average +20 points and +8 rebounds a game. That would be awesome if Aldridge can finish this season off strong and be the only one.

Stats are nice. Wins are better!
 
I'm intrigued on where they got "excellent perimeter shooting" from. I don't think there's any measure you can point to to say he's an "excellent perimeter shooter." In fact, I think that that's the one part of his game that's detracting from his overall greatness, efficiency and therefore wins.

The "much-improved low post defense" I'm not sure about--was there an article recently that used something to say that he was an elite defender? I don't scour threads as much as I used to.

I don't know if the comparison to Sheed is great or not, b/c while Sheed was a similar rebounder (slightly worse ORB%, slightly better DRB%, almost equal overall), Sheed shot many of his jumpers from behind the 3pt line, so while his FG% was the same, his EFG% and TS% were higher. Sheed's highest usage rates are 5% below LMA's. DRtg probably has a lot to do with the team, but Sheed destroys him there. LMA, however, has a higher PER by roughly 3.0 a year. Win Shares are about equal.

And for KingSpeed and PapaG: Sheed's made the playoffs every year of his career except his rookie year with the Bullets. ;)
 
Good question!
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I'm intrigued on where they got "excellent perimeter shooting" from. I don't think there's any measure you can point to to say he's an "excellent perimeter shooter." In fact, I think that that's the one part of his game that's detracting from his overall greatness, efficiency and therefore wins.

The "much-improved low post defense" I'm not sure about--was there an article recently that used something to say that he was an elite defender? I don't scour threads as much as I used to.

I don't know if the comparison to Sheed is great or not, b/c while Sheed was a similar rebounder (slightly worse ORB%, slightly better DRB%, almost equal overall), Sheed shot many of his jumpers from behind the 3pt line, so while his FG% was the same, his EFG% and TS% were higher. Sheed's highest usage rates are 5% below LMA's. DRtg probably has a lot to do with the team, but Sheed destroys him there. LMA, however, has a higher PER by roughly 3.0 a year. Win Shares are about equal.

And for KingSpeed and PapaG: Sheed's made the playoffs every year of his career except his rookie year with the Bullets. ;)

Well taking a look at other bigs and their perimeter shooting; he is far superior.

Let's use "love for example... He is considered a deadly shooter; yet Aldridge trumps him in everything but the 3 point shot

http://stats.nba.com/playerVsPlayer.html?PlayerID=200746&VsPlayerID=201567

Then we can look at Chris Bosh; who is another player that is known for good perimeter shooting. And it's pretty certain you can argue that most the attention is off of him because teams are more focused on Wade and LeBron; which his him a buffer.

http://stats.nba.com/teamVsPlayer.html?TeamID=1610612748&VsPlayerID=200746

But even with the buffer and him being more wide open than Aldridge; he still trumps Bosh from the perimeter.

Now Duncan would be the one player I think makes shots with efficiency from 5-10 feet. He is the one player I think would be considered playing better ball at PF than Aldridge and the stats back that statement. He is the only player that has a better and more efficient perimeter game than Aldridge.

http://stats.nba.com/playerVsPlayer.html?PlayerID=200746&VsPlayerID=1495

Of course he shoots much less than Aldridge; I think Duncan's bank shot is a thing of beauty. He is the only player I think that is, by far, the better Big.
 
Trust me....... opposing coaches and players respect THE FUCK OUT OF HIM! Double team him whenever they can.
 
I could care less if LA gets respect. I respect him and I think he's a darn good player.
 
Link

Um, Bosh shoots 50% on his perimeter jumpers (jump shots 9-22 feet). LMA is at 42%.
Ibaka, Gasol at 49%.
Nicholson, Jason Smith at 48%.
Kaman, Garnett, Arthur at 46%.
Dudley, Landry, West at 45%.
Speights, Bass, Horford, Nowitzki, Brand @43%.

Shoots as well as LMA: Scola, Jason Thompson, David Lee. Duncan slightly below at 41.6, but on half as many shots.

Kevin Love only shoots 35% from 9-22 feet. Of course, he shoots more 3's (at a pretty-damn-efficient 37%) than jumpers 9-22 feet (he does it 500x less a season than LMA).

If LMA took any of his 12 long jumpers from behind the 3pt line, he'd only have to shoot 29% on them to do better than what his "elite" perimeter shooting is doing for the team now.
 
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Well taking a look at other bigs and their perimeter shooting; he is far superior.

Let's use "love for example... He is considered a deadly shooter; yet Aldridge trumps him in everything but the 3 point shot

http://stats.nba.com/playerVsPlayer.html?PlayerID=200746&VsPlayerID=201567


Then we can look at Chris Bosh; who is another player that is known for good perimeter shooting. And it's pretty certain you can argue that most the attention is off of him because teams are more focused on Wade and LeBron; which his him a buffer.

http://stats.nba.com/teamVsPlayer.html?TeamID=1610612748&VsPlayerID=200746

But even with the buffer and him being more wide open than Aldridge; he still trumps Bosh from the perimeter.

Now Duncan would be the one player I think makes shots with efficiency from 5-10 feet. He is the one player I think would be considered playing better ball at PF than Aldridge and the stats back that statement. He is the only player that has a better and more efficient perimeter game than Aldridge.

http://stats.nba.com/playerVsPlayer.html?PlayerID=200746&VsPlayerID=1495

Of course he shoots much less than Aldridge; I think Duncan's bank shot is a thing of beauty. He is the only player I think that is, by far, the better Big.

Your link for Bosh is all of MIA, not just Bosh. Bosh shoots 45.5% on jumpers, Aldridge shoots 41.5%. eFG% for both is 47.0% and 41.6% respectively.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01/shooting/2013/
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/aldrila01/shooting/2013/

And you're using Love's season stats from this year, when he's been playing with a messed up hand all year. Last year he shot 34.8% on jumpers, but with an eFG% of 43.0 it was still higher than LMA.

BWA has it right, with an eFG% of 41.6 on his jumpers, and not a single other shot type with a eFG% below 52.4% his heavy heavy reliance on a highly inefficient perimeter game is a detracting factor.
 
Yeah, but how much of that is Aldridge's fault?

It's not LMA's fault, it's his limit. Like Griffin, Bosh, and Love he's capable of putting up All Star numbers as the number 1 on teams that aren't going to get very far, not quite as good as those 3 but still All Star numbers, but if he's going to get anywhere like Griffin and Bosh have it will come with him sacrificing his numbers and being a 2 or a 3 on a team with serious depth.
 
It's not LMA's fault, it's his limit. Like Griffin, Bosh, and Love he's capable of putting up All Star numbers as the number 1 on teams that aren't going to get very far, not quite as good as those 3 but still All Star numbers, but if he's going to get anywhere like Griffin and Bosh have it will come with him sacrificing his numbers and being a 2 or a 3 on a team with serious depth.

I haven't seen anyone disagree with that sentiment.
 
Link

Um, Bosh shoots 50% on his perimeter jumpers (jump shots 9-22 feet). LMA is at 42%.
Ibaka, Gasol at 49%.
Nicholson, Jason Smith at 48%.
Kaman, Garnett, Arthur at 46%.
Dudley, Landry, West at 45%.
Speights, Bass, Horford, Nowitzki, Brand @43%.

Shoots as well as LMA: Scola, Jason Thompson, David Lee. Duncan slightly below at 41.6, but on half as many shots.

Kevin Love only shoots 35% from 9-22 feet. Of course, he shoots more 3's (at a pretty-damn-efficient 37%) than jumpers 9-22 feet (he does it 500x less a season than LMA).

If LMA took any of his 12 long jumpers from behind the 3pt line, he'd only have to shoot 29% on them to do better than what his "elite" perimeter shooting is doing for the team now.

🤦

Are you arguing with the links I provided? Your reference is skewed. The nba stat site is better because it shows the shots and distance.

Guess you missed the point where I said that Bosh's jump shots are buffered because of all the attention LeBron and wade get. In fact, your link proves that the majority of those shots are assisted (82%); whereas Aldridge is creating those jump shots (64%). Basically, Aldridge being the 1st or 2nd focus on the defensive end; yet still shooting more efficiently.

Now you bring up all players that are third or 4th options on offense, basically being the spot up shooter after the main focal points draw the defense to them. That is a much easier shot. With Aldridge, it's far different. He is the focal point and usually doubled. Those shots are usually always contested and he still manages to drain 42% of them.
 
Your link for Bosh is all of MIA, not just Bosh. Bosh shoots 45.5% on jumpers, Aldridge shoots 41.5%. eFG% for both is 47.0% and 41.6% respectively.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01/shooting/2013/
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/aldrila01/shooting/2013/

And you're using Love's season stats from this year, when he's been playing with a messed up hand all year. Last year he shot 34.8% on jumpers, but with an eFG% of 43.0 it was still higher than LMA.

BWA has it right, with an eFG% of 41.6 on his jumpers, and not a single other shot type with a eFG% below 52.4% his heavy heavy reliance on a highly inefficient perimeter game is a detracting factor.

Your link is showing that Aldridge shots a better % than Bosh. The eFG% is an advanced stat that doesn't tell the entire story. I don't know how many times I have to say this over and over and over again. Bosh is the third option and isn't even close to getting the attention Aldridge receives. Almost all of Aldridge shots are coming when he is either doubled or heavily contested. Bosh gets to watch LeBron and Wade demand all the attention and be the spot up shooter for their squad. Look when Aldridge was the spot up shooter when Roy was Batman. He blows them out of the water.

As for Love. Last season Love to Last Season Aldridge; Aldridge still beat him on everything but the three point shot.

Who wants a three point shooting PF anyway? I thought that was a huge complaint with Sheed for so many years?

Aldridge 2011-12 42.4% - eFG% 42.5% - Assisted 52% (Harder attempts)

Kevin Love 2011-12 34.8% - eFG% 43% - Assisted 71% (easier attempts)
 
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I want to know what happened to Blake Griffin after his rookie season. He went from averaging 22 and 12 to 20 and 10 to currently 18 and 8. I would have thought the addition of Chris Paul would make him better.... not worse.
 
I want to know what happened to Blake Griffin after his rookie season. He went from averaging 22 and 12 to 20 and 10 to currently 18 and 8. I would have thought the addition of Chris Paul would make him better.... not worse.

I wonder if the combo of Chris Paul and DeAndre Jordan improving has something to do with it. But all that aside he seems super overrated.
 
Yes, I'm arguing with your links. Your Bosh link doesn't even show Bosh, it shows Miami as a whole and only shows how LMA did against them.

How are you saying my reference is "skewed"? The shots database in basketball-reference shows every type and distance for every shot taken in the last 15 years. We're talking about perimeter shooting, which is by most accounts defined as outside 9 feet and inside the 3pt line. By no account is LMA (as the author insinuated) an "elite" perimeter shooter. It doesn't matter if he's the first or fifth option, double-teamed or not. When he lets a shot fly, it goes in 42% of the time. That's less than all of those guys posted above, and he shoots almost double as many (if not more) than any other player in the league.

I was going to bring up the assist thing, but for a different reason. By your stat, he's not getting 1/3 of his shots off of the pick and pop or any other pass. He's getting them from getting the ball, making a move, and then deciding to take a 42% efficient shot. That's not good by any stretch, any definition, any measure of anything basketball-related.

And no, if he's doubled there no way he should be taking them. If he's the "focal point" of the defense, he shouldn't be shooting them. By definition there's someone else who's NOT the focal point and/or wide open, and wherever they are on the court and whatever percentage they're shooting it's more efficient than LMA taking a 9-22 foot jumper. That's all there is to it. I can't believe that this is even a discussion.

You can debate LMA being a Top 3 PF, or being able to make another leap, or whether he can be a Batman or Robin, or whether it's better for him to play more D and let other focus on O. You can debate whether or not him shooting from 9-22 feet "spaces the floor" or makes the offense "flow better". What ISN'T debatable is the fact that LMA shoots more of the least-efficient shot in basketball than any other player, and he isn't even an average efficiency (even for a big man) while doing it. I'd be very interested to see anything that shows he's even "above average" at perimeter shooting, much less "excellent", as the OP stated.
 
I want to know what happened to Blake Griffin after his rookie season. He went from averaging 22 and 12 to 20 and 10 to currently 18 and 8. I would have thought the addition of Chris Paul would make him better.... not worse.

I think he is an over-rated player. He reminds me a lot of Larry Johnson, when he was all hyped his first few seasons. The moment he has an injury and loses some of that athleticism, he will be mediocre
 
Yes, I'm arguing with your links. Your Bosh link doesn't even show Bosh, it shows Miami as a whole and only shows how LMA did against them.

How are you saying my reference is "skewed"? The shots database in basketball-reference shows every type and distance for every shot taken in the last 15 years. We're talking about perimeter shooting, which is by most accounts defined as outside 9 feet and inside the 3pt line. By no account is LMA (as the author insinuated) an "elite" perimeter shooter. It doesn't matter if he's the first or fifth option, double-teamed or not. When he lets a shot fly, it goes in 42% of the time. That's less than all of those guys posted above, and he shoots almost double as many (if not more) than any other player in the league.

I was going to bring up the assist thing, but for a different reason. By your stat, he's not getting 1/3 of his shots off of the pick and pop or any other pass. He's getting them from getting the ball, making a move, and then deciding to take a 42% efficient shot. That's not good by any stretch, any definition, any measure of anything basketball-related.

And no, if he's doubled there no way he should be taking them. If he's the "focal point" of the defense, he shouldn't be shooting them. By definition there's someone else who's NOT the focal point and/or wide open, and wherever they are on the court and whatever percentage they're shooting it's more efficient than LMA taking a 9-22 foot jumper. That's all there is to it. I can't believe that this is even a discussion.

You can debate LMA being a Top 3 PF, or being able to make another leap, or whether he can be a Batman or Robin, or whether it's better for him to play more D and let other focus on O. You can debate whether or not him shooting from 9-22 feet "spaces the floor" or makes the offense "flow better". What ISN'T debatable is the fact that LMA shoots more of the least-efficient shot in basketball than any other player, and he isn't even an average efficiency (even for a big man) while doing it. I'd be very interested to see anything that shows he's even "above average" at perimeter shooting, much less "excellent", as the OP stated.

Okay tell me... What shot is harder? Contested or wide-open?

Oh here you go. Don't know why it showed the entire team.

http://stats.nba.com/playerVsPlayer.html?PlayerID=200746&VsPlayerID=2547

Oh and do you think Stephen Curry is a good jump shooter? Your link has him only 0.02% better than Aldridge.

How about Jrue Holiday; which is considered a good perimeter scorer is less than Aldridge.

How about Carmelo Anthony? Aldridge is better! LMAO! You provided a link to give yourself the proof you need.
 
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I want to know what happened to Blake Griffin after his rookie season. He went from averaging 22 and 12 to 20 and 10 to currently 18 and 8. I would have thought the addition of Chris Paul would make him better.... not worse.

The team as whole has gotten a lot better (most notably the bench) and they are really deep. A lot more people to contend with on shot attempts. Also his minutes per game have gone from 38 to 36 to 32.5.

His per 36 scoring stats are basically identical every year. His rebounds have gone down slightly each year however. Odom has been horrible but the one thing he has done is rebound at a high rate.

Some of it is teams figuring him out though I believe. But not much as people think.
 
That's still not the link you want. It's right for LMA, but Bosh's numbers dwarf LMA's. 50% to 42%. It's not close.

Contested shots are harder than wide open ones. So is a half-court runner. I don't want LMA taking 12 of those a game, either.

There isn't a argument that I'd rather have Aldridge play inside more; but saying he isn't effective from the perimeter is outlandish. All of those shots are contested and the coach called for him to take them. It gives Lillard the lanes needed to work the paint more efficiently. When Hickson tries to do the same pick and pop; the defender always doubles Lillard and he is stopped. When Lillard passes to Hickson; he has a wide open shot and the defense dares him to take it. When it pops to Aldridge, immediately, the defender runs toward him.
 
No, by definition, he isn't effective from the perimeter. He gets .825 points on every shot he takes from there, and he takes about 11 a game. That's the exact same efficiency as a 41% free throw shooter shooting 22x a game or a 28% 3point shooter shooting 7-8x a game. None of those are efficient, no matter if he's being triple-teamed, guys running at him, one hand tied behind his back, covered in gatorade or whatever. It's NOT EFFICIENT for him to do so, and there's a very strong correlation between your efficiency and how much your team wins.

I'd love to see any quote from Stotts (or even secondhand) that says he wants LMA shooting perimeter jumpers at a 42% clip. I don't think you can find one, because Stotts himself has said they try to get LMA inside more.

To put it into perspective, Dirk has only had one year where he shot a worse FG% on these shots than LMA's BEST year. (41.9% for Dirk, 43.2% for LMA). He has had 5 seasons above 48%. Amazingly, in his MVP season, he shot over 51%, but took "only" 800 of them. His Finals MVP season he took only 650 of them. Of course, he was also shooting a hefty 41% from 3. That's being an efficient perimeter shooter.
 
There isn't a argument that I'd rather have Aldridge play inside more; but saying he isn't effective from the perimeter is outlandish. All of those shots are contested and the coach called for him to take them. It gives Lillard the lanes needed to work the paint more efficiently. When Hickson tries to do the same pick and pop; the defender always doubles Lillard and he is stopped. When Lillard passes to Hickson; he has a wide open shot and the defense dares him to take it. When it pops to Aldridge, immediately, the defender runs toward him.

As the opposing team you'd want LA to take those long distance FGs. It brings LA out of the paint and it makes it easier for the opposing team to box out our other big man. That and LA barely shoots about 42% from mid range.

However, it would be more effective to have our 3-pt shooters shoot the ball at about 37% and have our two big men near the paint waiting for the possible rebound and put back.
 
This thread is such a strawman. "Why LMA Can't Get Any Respect?" He gets plenty of respect, but he also has his limitations and sometimes people point them out.
 
There isn't a argument that I'd rather have Aldridge play inside more; but saying he isn't effective from the perimeter is outlandish.

How do you define "effective" as far as perimeter shooters are concerned?
 
I'd love to see any quote from Stotts (or even secondhand) that says he wants LMA shooting perimeter jumpers at a 42% clip. I don't think you can find one, because Stotts himself has said they try to get LMA inside more.

http://www.blazersedge.com/2012/9/1...terry-stotts-interviewed-on-blazers-courtside

Using LaMarcus Aldridge like Dirk Nowitzki

I want to try almost everything that we did with Dirk, with LaMarcus, to get a comfort level. On the left block he's as good of a block player as there is in the league. A pick-and-pop shooter for a big man, he's almost on the same level as Dirk with mid-range. Dirk can take it out a little bit further, or at least he has. I'd like to expand his game a little bit. We would isolate Dirk at the free throw line, it's very difficult for guys to double-team in that area. It creates a problem. That's one area that we can explore with LaMarcus and expand his game in that way. He's 27 years old and can improve. He's already an All-Star and he can still improve. Stretching his range, I don't know if he's a 3-point shooter, but putting him in the corner, I think he can make corner threes. I don't necessarily want to emphasize that but he's capable of that.

When we got to Dallas, Dirk was primarily a right block player. Over the course of four years, it got to the point where he was comfortable on either block and during the course of a game, we would ask him, 'Which block do you want?' We didn't know because some games he felt more comfortable on the left than the right. I'd like LaMarcus to have that versatility. If we can move him around, the way I want to play 2-man game where the ball is moving and it swings to him and he's able to go on the weakside, he pops and it's a quick drive to the basket.

I think the way we want to play as a team is going to help him individually and when we want to get him the ball, depending on the match-up, have some flexibility. Whether it's the block, the free throw line, a ball screen, having a little guy set a screen on him when he's handling. A lot of different ways to expand his game and tweak it, and not take away from what he already does really well.

Using him and Damian the same way we used Dirk and Jason Terry has some possibilities. We talk about those two guys, Nic Batum and Wes Matthews have some versatility with their game. Improving their pick-and-roll game and their post-up game and their transition game.

A lot of those perimeter shots per game were very first part of the season heavy. The argument is skewed cause he isn't being played as much from the perimeter like he was at the beginning of the season. It's also skewed because at the beginning of the season, and when Stotts wanted Dirk 2.0, he was battling the recovery of his surgery.
 
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I personally don't want to see LA inside all game long because I don't think his body would hold up to that for an entire season. We need someone else to bang down low on both ends and let LA do his thing and occasionally mixing it up by taking it down low.
 
Okay tell me... What shot is harder? Contested or wide-open?

Oh here you go. Don't know why it showed the entire team.

http://stats.nba.com/playerVsPlayer.html?PlayerID=200746&VsPlayerID=2547

Oh and do you think Stephen Curry is a good jump shooter? Your link has him only 0.02% better than Aldridge.

How about Jrue Holiday; which is considered a good perimeter scorer is less than Aldridge.

How about Carmelo Anthony? Aldridge is better! LMAO! You provided a link to give yourself the proof you need.

That's still not a comparison of LMA and Bosh from their respective ranges, it shows Aldridge's totals and then what he does head to head vs Miami.

And the difference between LMA and all the players you just listed is that all of them take 2 steps back and fire from behind the line that makes their shot worth more! Their eFG% on jumpers are all significantly better than Aldridge because of it.

Your link is showing that Aldridge shots a better % than Bosh. The eFG% is an advanced stat that doesn't tell the entire story. I don't know how many times I have to say this over and over and over again. Bosh is the third option and isn't even close to getting the attention Aldridge receives. Almost all of Aldridge shots are coming when he is either doubled or heavily contested. Bosh gets to watch LeBron and Wade demand all the attention and be the spot up shooter for their squad. Look when Aldridge was the spot up shooter when Roy was Batman. He blows them out of the water.

As for Love. Last season Love to Last Season Aldridge; Aldridge still beat him on everything but the three point shot.

Who wants a three point shooting PF anyway? I thought that was a huge complaint with Sheed for so many years?

Aldridge 2011-12 42.4% - eFG% 42.5% - Assisted 52% (Harder attempts)

Kevin Love 2011-12 34.8% - eFG% 43% - Assisted 71% (easier attempts)

Bosh is clearly 4% better on jumpers, where you're still getting that Aldridge is better I don't know. And yes, if my PF is going to take more than 70% of his FGA as jumpers I want his ass out behind the 3pt line. 41.5% from long 2 hurts a team offensively, even if he was shooting 30% from 3 it would be a better shot than the long 2.
 

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