OT Why Never Trumpers Should Bet on DeSantis Now (3 Viewers)

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Now I see why people are sick of Politics & religion. Everyone thinks there position is correct 100%. Get joy from arguing with those that think differently rather than, with respect searching for common ground to build on.
 
Hoopguru said:
Now I see why people are sick of Politics & religion. Everyone thinks there position is correct 100%. Get joy from arguing with those that think differently rather than, with respect searching for common ground to build on.
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And nobody with an uninformed point of view wants to deal with the uncomfortable reality that being informed brings with it.

So as it gets uncomfortable they change topics or exit the conversation altogether...
 
Hoopguru said:
Now I see why people are sick of Politics & religion. Everyone thinks there position is correct 100%. Get joy from arguing with those that think differently rather than, with respect searching for common ground to build on.
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Are you a Blazers fan? Me too!

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Ive known people that are habitual arguers and don't know when to take a breath.
Years ago I had a girl friend that would join us fellows playing poker and one day while playing she turned to a friend that was a regular and said to him, you are the most argumentative person Ive been around its exhausting. Please relax and enjoy the game. It shocked everyone at the table but this guy would argue and take exception to anything someone said. Nice gut otherwise. That left an impact on me and others in our group.
 
Hoopguru said:
Ive known people that are habitual arguers and don't know when to take a breath.
Years ago I had a girl friend that would join us fellows playing poker and one day while playing she turned to a friend that was a regular and said to him, you are the most argumentative person Ive been around its exhausting. Please relax and enjoy the game. It shocked everyone at the table but this guy would argue and take exception to anything someone said. Nice gut otherwise. That left an impact on me and others in our group.
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We are in a forum discussing different topics. If somebody is posting politically charged information they should probably be prepared to defend their position.

Otherwise why post it unless they are just trying to spread propaganda. Which is obviously not appreciated...
 
Hoopguru said:
Now I see why people are sick of Politics & religion. Everyone thinks there position is correct 100%. Get joy from arguing with those that think differently rather than, with respect searching for common ground to build on.
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Sometimes you know there just is right and wrong. Not a difference of opinion. I’m tired of “well my opinion is …” when that opinion is fucking garbage and wrong. We can have a difference of opinion about Justice Winslows future. Not if systemic racism exists and is widespread and continues to hurt minorities.
 
calvin natt said:
Sometimes you know there just is right and wrong. Not a difference of opinion. I’m tired of “well my opinion is …” when that opinion is fucking garbage and wrong. We can have a difference of opinion about Justice Winslows future. Not if systemic racism exists and is widespread and continues to hurt minorities.
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I agree with addressing systemic racism in a big way and try and do my part. Its the continued back and forth thats gets to be tiring with the same result over and over again.
 
Phatguysrule said:
We are in a forum discussing different topics. If somebody is posting politically charged information they should probably be prepared to defend their position.

Otherwise why post it unless they are just trying to spread propaganda. Which is obviously not appreciated...
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I know that and I always appreciate your take on things. Its just that the banter back and forth gets old with the same person getting the same result.
 
calvin natt said:
Oh well yeah. Nobody changing their mind in here ever.
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lol....As an old fart Ive learned to enjoy the variety of takes in here, the say when you get old like me stimulating the mind with challenging topics is healthy.
 
I've decided to stop engaging with ABM on these issues. This is my choice and not intended to influence anyone else. He has repeatedly failed to answer simple questions, lauded overt white supremacists and men who beat up women, because calling oneself conservative apparently excuses everything, praised organizations and politicians seeking to literally erase me from history and the present, and opposed my most basic civil rights.

I mean, I'd rather clean the cat box. Lucia hisses at all cats equally regardless of fur color.
 
Hoopguru said:
I know that and I always appreciate your take on things. Its just that the banter back and forth gets old with the same person getting the same result.
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I do understand that it gets old, but if these posts are not given the proper attention then they run risk of becoming morw frequent and other people who are undecided seeing them and maybe being led astray or thinking that kind of thing is correct.

This is how we got Trump and the tea party.

We have ignored the improper and even downright racist things people say out of politeness to the detriment of our society.

These kinds of conversations need to be had. Regardless of if ABM changes his mind, at least we are on record as saying this forum doesn't all feel that way.

The name calling gets to be a bit much, for sure. But openly questioning what is the difference between a bigot and somebody who supports bigotry isn't out of line.

In fact, think it's probably a healthy thing to consider...
 
Phatguysrule said:
I do understand that it gets old, but if these posts are not given the proper attention then they run risk of becoming morw frequent and other people who are undecided seeing them and maybe being led astray or thinking that kind of thing is correct.

This is how we got Trump and the tea party.

We have ignored the improper and even downright racist things people say out of politeness to the detriment of our society.

These kinds of conversations need to be had. Regardless of if ABM changes his mind, at least we are on record as saying this forum doesn't all feel that way.

The name calling gets to be a bit much, for sure. But openly questioning what is the difference between a bigot and somebody who supports bigotry isn't out of line.

In fact, think it's probably a healthy thing to consider...
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I agree. My wife and I have a large multi cultural/race family, young and old, gay&straight, liberal, so so conservative, some religious other's not at all. Some love rap music and some feel it's bad for kids. Ducks & Beavers & 1 Bear. Some smoke pot some dont. lol
I am amazed at when we are all together how everyone enjoys one another, even with some philosophical/life style difference.
The amount of respect given to one another, I think is the key. We can talk about various subjects and there are times when we all agree on something, but many times there are different opinions/beliefs.
Ive attended BLM rally, different churches (even though I'd rather do something else), duck & beaver games.
There have been heated arguments but never has gotten personnel or hate filled.
 
Hoopguru said:
I agree. My wife and I have a large multi cultural/race family, young and old, gay&straight, liberal, so so conservative, some religious other's not at all. Some love rap music and some feel it's bad for kids. Ducks & Beavers & 1 Bear. Some smoke pot some dont. lol
I am amazed at when we are all together how everyone enjoys one another, even with some philosophical/life style difference.
The amount of respect given to one another, I think is the key. We can talk about various subjects and there are times when we all agree on something, but many times there are different opinions/beliefs.
Ive attended BLM rally, different churches (even though I'd rather do something else), duck & beaver games.
There have been heated arguments but never has gotten personnel or hate filled.
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Nice. As it should be.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Which you said was false. What part is false? Or were you simply trying to exit the conversation?

Either way is fine.
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You said: "Telling minorities that they don't have as much because they haven't worked hard enough for it is incredibly counterproductive."

When did I ever say that? Never.
 
ABM said:
You said: "Telling minorities that they don't have as much because they haven't worked hard enough for it is incredibly counterproductive."

When did I ever say that? Never.
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I didn't say you said that. But you have been promoting a group which teaches that hard work is the answer for minorities. Have you not?

Or do you just believe that minorities should have to work harder that whites?

If hard work is the answer then they aren't working hard enough and they should be expected to work harder.

Or did I misunderstand the position?

Again, please be specific?
 
Phatguysrule said:
I didn't say you said that. But you have been promoting a group which teaches that hard work is the answer for minorities. Have you not?
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I'm promoting a group that's getting in the trenches - the communities themselves - and providing leadership and resources to help minority children overcome. It's not so much about hard work (albeit, hard work is a universal given), as it is about encouragement, hope, and empowerment.

https://woodsoncenter.org/how-we-help/grassroots-empowerment/

Many individuals and organizations want to implement the Woodson Center approach to addressing social problems, but they need help to identify and engage with the appropriate grassroots leaders in their community. Woodson Center consultants have extensive experience finding and training such leaders while drawing on an established nationwide network of referrals and relationships, including, but not limited to CAN and VBMU.

Unlike organizations that view all low-income individuals through the lens of dysfunction, Woodson Center consultants identify and build on established success in the areas of upward mobility, violence prevention, educational excellence, vocational training, addiction treatment, and much more. They are able to conduct preliminary research, travel to the community, conduct fact-finding missions, compile data and prepare reports for interested clients. The result is a direct impact on target communities and often support for and expansion of our CAN and VBMU networks.
 
ABM said:
I'm promoting a group that's getting in the trenches - the communities themselves - and providing leadership and resources to help minority children overcome. It's not so much about hard work (albeit, hard work is a universal given), as it is about encouragement, hope, and empowerment.

https://woodsoncenter.org/how-we-help/grassroots-empowerment/

Many individuals and organizations want to implement the Woodson Center approach to addressing social problems, but they need help to identify and engage with the appropriate grassroots leaders in their community. Woodson Center consultants have extensive experience finding and training such leaders while drawing on an established nationwide network of referrals and relationships, including, but not limited to CAN and VBMU.

Unlike organizations that view all low-income individuals through the lens of dysfunction, Woodson Center consultants identify and build on established success in the areas of upward mobility, violence prevention, educational excellence, vocational training, addiction treatment, and much more. They are able to conduct preliminary research, travel to the community, conduct fact-finding missions, compile data and prepare reports for interested clients. The result is a direct impact on target communities and often support for and expansion of our CAN and VBMU networks.
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That all sounds great, but all legitimate studies show that access to education, healthcare, financial stability are the difference. And our current and past systems favor white men over all alse.

So if they aren't pushing that, all they are pushing is stories of successful minorities, suggesting that hard work is the difference.

Which can be considered nothing other than hidden bigotry, as it's ignoring the bigger problems.

So again, it's unfortunately just a distraction from the real problems.
 
Phatguysrule said:
That all sounds great, but all legitimate studies show that access to education, healthcare, financial stability are the difference. And our current and past systems favor white men over all alse.

So if they aren't pushing that, all they are pushing is stories of successful minorities, suggesting that hard work is the difference.

Which can be considered nothing other than hidden bigotry, as it's ignoring the bigger problems.

So again, it's unfortunately just a distraction from the real problems.
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So, again....my Black Conservative friends might disagree. Really, though, it's become circular. Let's agree to disagree. That's OK.
 
ABM said:
So, again....my Black Conservative friends might disagree. Really, though, it's become circular. Let's agree to disagree. That's OK.
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Agree to disagree now that it's getting uncomfortable? Nah.

So what, other than working harder, are their suggested solutions? Maybe I'm just misunderstanding.

What are their proposed solutions? How are they addressing the problem?
 
Phatguysrule said:
Agree to disagree now that it's getting uncomfortable? Nah.

So what, other than working harder, are their suggested solutions? Maybe I'm just misunderstanding.

What are their proposed solutions? How are they addressing the problem?
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Are you not reading? Do you not understand? The solutions are at the ground level and kids-focused. Do you believe that's a wrong approach? Do they have to figure out all the other stuff, as well?
 
ABM said:
Are you not reading? Do you not understand? The solutions are at the ground level and kids-focused. Do you believe that's a wrong approach? Do they have to figure out all the other stuff, as well?
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starting with kids is great for individual racism. Ignoring systemic racism allows it to continue. Systemic racism isn't just a "matter of the heart"
 
ABM said:
Are you not reading? Do you not understand? The solutions are at the ground level and kids-focused. Do you believe that's a wrong approach? Do they have to figure out all the other stuff, as well?
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What at the ground level? What kid focused solutions?

Focusing on an individual kid can't have much impact on systemic racism...
 
Phatguysrule said:
What at the ground level? What kid focused solutions?

Focusing on an individual kid can't have much impact on systemic racism...
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It sounds as if you have the answers on a grander scale. Correct?
 
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