OT Why Never Trumpers Should Bet on DeSantis Now (5 Viewers)

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Chris Craig said:
Antifa, the equivalent of the far right has not taken over the Democratic party. There is still a very clear separation between the two. The Democratic party does not subscribe to those ways of thinking.
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Who’s talking about Antifa? Maher is referring to, among other things, the left’s idiotic idea of helping six year olds change their gender, something that is embraced by millions of leftist loonies.
 
ABM said:
......which seems kinda wild to me as I had always viewed him as a lefty left apologist.

Wasted away at Liberalville. Some people claim that AOC's to blame, but it's their own......fault.
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No need to get pejorative.

I grew up with a conservative father so there are some conservative values I understand and can maybe agree with, but the Republican party has gone too far. I have to speak for what is right.
 
Chris Craig said:
I grew up with a conservative father so there are some conservative values I understand and can maybe agree with, but the Republican party has gone too far. I have to speak for what is right.
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Likewise. I could identify with JFK’s version of liberalism in the 60’s. He seemed like a reasonable person with reasonable solutions. I can’t identify at all, however, with today’s Democrats who have sold out to the race baiters and gender crowd and traded common sense for insanity.
 
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Bingo Bango said:
Who’s talking about Antifa? Maher is referring to, among other things, the left’s idiotic idea of helping six year olds change their gender, something that is embraced by millions of leftist loonies.
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To say "helping six year olds changing their gender is something that is embraced by millions of leftist loonies" is exaggeration and hyperbole at its finest. And so very typical from the right wing loonies. I personally couldn't give one rat's ass about another human's sexuality or gender choices. It's NONE of my business, nor is it any or YOUR business. They should have the freedom to be who they are and love whomever they choose. The real problem in this country is that BOTH the right and the left have gone too far extreme and are too eager to shit all over the majority in the middle who just want to get along. Neither side is interested in any compromise whatsoever. Why people like you feel the need to police and deny the choices of others, especially when they have absolutely NO impact on your precious little life says more about you than the people you are so scared of. My God, the Republican Party, the party of "freedom" and "law and order" and "the Constitution" are anything but. That you can't see that the right is doing everything they can to restrict your liberties despite everything they are doing out in the open to achieve that end is frightening.
 
Bingo Bango said:
Who’s talking about Antifa? Maher is referring to, among other things, the left’s idiotic idea of helping six year olds change their gender, something that is embraced by millions of leftist loonies.
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Look, I'm not going to pretend I understand what goes into the decision making of a parent of a kid who was born with a different gender then their sex.

I do know if my son came to me and said he felt like he was a girl, or he exhibited those tendencies I would take that into account. If the label of boy causes him distressed, I would change it to help him. I would do anything for my son.

He hasn't thus far other than playing with dolls or getting the girls toys at McDonald's sometimes...which is a construct I believe is stupid...toys are toys. Maybe that's a sign....maybe not.

But, If he comes to me and tells me he is trans or otherwise LTGBQ in the future I will wholy support that. He knows that I support him no matter what.
 
Chris Craig said:
The far right has taken over the Republican party....
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https://www.politico.com/news/2022/06/07/trump-desantis-00037538

'Better than President Trump': DeSantis' clout swells in the West
For the second year in a row, DeSantis won a straw poll at “the largest gathering of conservatives in the Western United States.”

DeSantis, whose campaign declined to comment, has been increasingly expanding his national footprint ahead of his likely 2022 re-election win and potential 2024 presidential bid. He has made fundraising stops in several states throughout the country, including with Trump donors in South Carolina last month and at an April rally in Las Vegas for U.S. Senate candidate Adam Laxalt, a longtime friend and former roommate.

“The reaction to DeSantis was incredible,” said Paul Jackson, a Nevada Republican consultant who was at the Las Vegas event. “People were lining up in 100 degree weather to see him, it was amazing enthusiasm. People were there just to try and catch a glimpse.”

“My sense is there are two types of Trump supporters. Those who are with him and nothing else matters,” Jackson added. “And those who support Trump’s policy, but not the things the man says, and that might be a bigger group. DeSantis fits that bill well.”

Trump by most measures remains the Party’s leader and continues to exert influence over many aspects of the GOP, including with party activists, state lawmakers and Republican candidates running for office. But as his time in the White House recedes and challengers like DeSantis provide an alternative, the question emerges: will conservatives see better alternatives for getting the same policy outcomes?.........

.......Phil Reberger, a longtime lobbyist political hand in the state, said Trump remains the most popular politician in the state — but DeSantis is making inroads.

“People have not gotten to the point where they are abandoning Trump, but DeSantis is saying the right things from an Idahoan standpoint,” he said. “It comes without the sharp edges, which is attractive to a number of folks.”

Colorado Republican consultant Guy Short says the focus right now for candidates like DeSantis is winning over conservative base voters, which the Florida governor is doing.

“The time to worry about the broader electorate will come — but right now if you aren’t winning the activists, you are losing,” he said. “DeSantis routinely champions national causes with a louder voice than most GOP leaders in Washington.”

“That’s why he is winning the other-than-Trump GOP primary this early,” he added.
 
ABM said:
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/06/07/trump-desantis-00037538

'Better than President Trump': DeSantis' clout swells in the West
For the second year in a row, DeSantis won a straw poll at “the largest gathering of conservatives in the Western United States.”

DeSantis, whose campaign declined to comment, has been increasingly expanding his national footprint ahead of his likely 2022 re-election win and potential 2024 presidential bid. He has made fundraising stops in several states throughout the country, including with Trump donors in South Carolina last month and at an April rally in Las Vegas for U.S. Senate candidate Adam Laxalt, a longtime friend and former roommate.

“The reaction to DeSantis was incredible,” said Paul Jackson, a Nevada Republican consultant who was at the Las Vegas event. “People were lining up in 100 degree weather to see him, it was amazing enthusiasm. People were there just to try and catch a glimpse.”

“My sense is there are two types of Trump supporters. Those who are with him and nothing else matters,” Jackson added. “And those who support Trump’s policy, but not the things the man says, and that might be a bigger group. DeSantis fits that bill well.”

Trump by most measures remains the Party’s leader and continues to exert influence over many aspects of the GOP, including with party activists, state lawmakers and Republican candidates running for office. But as his time in the White House recedes and challengers like DeSantis provide an alternative, the question emerges: will conservatives see better alternatives for getting the same policy outcomes?.........

.......Phil Reberger, a longtime lobbyist political hand in the state, said Trump remains the most popular politician in the state — but DeSantis is making inroads.

“People have not gotten to the point where they are abandoning Trump, but DeSantis is saying the right things from an Idahoan standpoint,” he said. “It comes without the sharp edges, which is attractive to a number of folks.”

Colorado Republican consultant Guy Short says the focus right now for candidates like DeSantis is winning over conservative base voters, which the Florida governor is doing.

“The time to worry about the broader electorate will come — but right now if you aren’t winning the activists, you are losing,” he said. “DeSantis routinely champions national causes with a louder voice than most GOP leaders in Washington.”

“That’s why he is winning the other-than-Trump GOP primary this early,” he added.
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He's the same as Trump, just smarter. Which makes him more dangerous in ways.
 
Chris Craig said:
Look, I'm not going to pretend I understand what goes into the decision making of a parent of a kid who was born with a different gender then their sex.

I do know if my son came to me and said he felt like he was a girl, or he exhibited those tendencies I would take that into account....
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....and if he came home from school and said. "Daddy, I feel like I'm a girl, and my teacher is talking with me, and helping me with my thoughts.", would you in any way want to have that discussion with his teacher?
 
ABM said:
....and if he came home from school and said. "Daddy, I feel like I'm a girl, and my teacher is talking with me, and helping me with my thoughts.", would you in any way want to have that discussion with his teacher?
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My son would come to me before ever going to a teacher about something like that.

But, if he brought something like that up to his teacher, I would sit down with his teacher to see what he talked with them about. And I would sit down with him and have the conversation.
 
Bingo Bango said:
I would suggest that those who invented the Russia hoax to destroy a sitting president, and then staged two phoney impeachments, are an even greater threat to the country than the protestors on Jan. 6. The former group holds the reins of power right now, while the latter was a rag tag group of citizens that ran amuck for a few hours at the Capitol. The group that invented the Russia Hoax is also leaving our borders wide open to drug trafficking and illegal immigration, supporting the destruction of our cities by BLM, and encouraging ideas like defund the police that have lead to a serious increase in crime. They’re also trying to brainwash school kids on the subject of gender, and interfering with the rights of parents to raise their children the way they want. Their ideology threatens so many important principles that I’m shocked any serious American citizen would identify with them.
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You can suggest all you want, but what I find far more disturbing is that one segment of our population is spreading false information, actively and loudly proclaiming they are going to end democracy, and is colluding with adversaries such as Russia to benefit themselves and our adversaries at the expense of America, Americans, American interests, and American values. Ending democracy is bad for virtually all citizens of a country, and one party is literally writing pledges and running on platforms of ending democracy if the votes don't go their way. This isn't anything they are even being bashful about, I mean they are literally running on the platform of ending our democracy, it's crazy town.

Although by judging your command of the English language I am doubtful you also have a firm grasp of American history, but America was literally formed as a result of a very similar setup. The original 13 colonies rebelled against England as they were being taxed by England but were not given any form of representation within the government. This is virtually the same setup Republicans want to impose on America, taxation without representation. To expect the majority of Americans to peacefully go along with this is a fools errand and will lead to extremely dangerous outcomes. Autocracies are bad for the economy, if you think things are bad now, just wait until we have a full blown autocracy in which the only way business is conducted is via cronyism and nepotism, and those that aren't happy with their pittance are thrown in jail. This is how it works in an autocracy, and it's very bad economically for virtually everyone in that country, just look at North Korea, Nazi Germany, The Soviet Union, Cuba, Communist China, etc. It's bad, very bad, and is the epitome of anti-American, these believes are anti-American, and supporting folks who support these policies is anti-American.
 
Chris Craig said:
My son would come to me before ever going to a teacher about something like that.

But, if he brought something like that up to his teacher, I would sit down with his teacher to see what he talked with them about. And I would sit down with him and have the conversation.
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That's all I could ask, as well. In other words, parental involvement.
 
Bingo Bango said:
Likewise. I could identify with JFK’s version of liberalism in the 60’s. He seemed like a reasonable person with reasonable solutions. I can’t identify at all, however, with today’s Democrats who have sold out to the race baiters and gender crowd and traded common sense for insanity.
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Both sides have gone off the rails in different ways, I actually agree with you in terms of the race baiting, the BLM crap, and the defund the police shit. It's bad governance and bad rhetoric, and ironically is bad for those that it purports to benefit because it has extreme backlash and has other unintended consequences that those that are still pushing for it don't seem to grasp or see. But these are policy disagreements, these are thing that I could have an honest discussion about and talk through and at least still have a choice in finding a representative that may reflect my beliefs more accurately. If democracy is ended, I do not get that choice, and neither do you. One party is running on that platform, and that is far more concerning than anything else such as some social issue.
 
Maybe Ronald Regain can articulate what I am trying to say in a way that may be more compelling to you than me.





 
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My favorite part is when Ronald Reagan quotes Orson Welles by saying "freedom is defined by having the freedom to say no". I bet Brad Raffensperger, and many other decent and honest Republicans would agree with Ronnie and Welles on this definition.
 
SlyPokerCat said:
Tell me why hiding behind the "Christian" religion allows people to think they can treat others poorly in the name of God?

Do better.
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Jesus teaches against that.
 
Voodoo said:
I actually agree with you in terms of the race baiting, the BLM crap, and the defund the police shit. It's bad governance and bad rhetoric, and ironically is bad for those that it purports to benefit because it has extreme backlash and has other unintended consequences that those that are still pushing for it don't seem to grasp or see.
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Absolutely. The BLM movement has had the opposite effect its supporters wanted: it has made race relations much worse. The violence and lawlessness that occurred in the summer of 2020 only reinforced negative stereotypes that have worked against black people for decades—and yet Democrats seemed to think all the mayhem was a good thing. Their lack of common sense in this area is another reason why I don’t trust then.
 
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Bingo Bango said:
Absolutely. The BLM movement has had the opposite effect its supporters wanted: it has made race relations much worse. The violence and lawlessness that occurred in the summer of 2020 only reinforced negative stereotypes that have worked against black people for decades—and yet Democrats seemed to think all the mayhem was a step in the right direction. Their lack of common sense in this area is another reason why I don’t trust then.
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Absolutely.

Conversely, here's an organization I've gotten behind. Proviiding solutions from the inside-out seems like a better approach to me.

https://woodsoncenter.org/
 
Bingo Bango said:
Absolutely. The BLM movement has had the opposite effect its supporters wanted: it has made race relations much worse. The violence and lawlessness that occurred in the summer of 2020 only reinforced negative stereotypes that have worked against black people for decades—and yet Democrats seemed to think all the mayhem was a good thing. Their lack of common sense in this area is another reason why I don’t trust then.
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And what do you base this on other than pure fantasy?
 
Bingo Bango said:
Good Lord. You seem to be living in a bubble filled with lies about the other side meant to keep you angry and disillusioned. Making charges like this undermines anything logical or sane you might come up with.
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Says the guy doing the exact same thing and yelling about it in every thread.
 
ABM said:
View attachment 48019
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I didn't say I agree with Raegan on everything, inflation is not that easy and canned quotes and talking points around a subject as complex as inflation is not the answer. If Raegan actually believed this he wouldn't have at the time been running record deficits and running up the national debt like he had. Stagflation was not conquered by Raegan, it was vanquished by the Federal Reserve through a long process of cooling the economy and taking the extremely unpopular position of raising interest rates to 19% that made borrowing money extraordinarily expensive.

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/economics/08/1970-stagflation.asp

There is something to be said about government over spending and its relation to inflation, but in reality it has little to nothing to do with it. In fact if anything, higher taxes reduce inflation as it reduces the amount of available cash circulating within the economy, the lower taxes are the more purchasing power people have and the higher the prices of goods are. Rising taxes on rich folks would help solve some of the inflationary pressures we have right now, just as increasing interest rates do. It would help reduce our budget deficit, while simultaneously help solve our inflationary crisis we're in. It makes too much sense to do it though, so it would never happen, especially not with the current Republican orthodoxy around taxes.
 
If Raegan really believed Government spending was a contributing factor for inflation, he sure went about controlling it in a way that didn't align with his rhetoric. He still holds the crown for the President that had the largest percent change in debt since WW2 at an astounding 186%. Look at the table, but to put it in perspective Obama was almost 70%, Trump 34%, and Dubya at 105%.

https://www.self.inc/info/us-debt-by-president/
 
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