WOJ: Dame wants the super max extension

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if you want a rebuild then not only trade Dame but also trade Simons, trade Hart, trade Nurkic and build a bottom-5 team because any wins those guys add are bad for the rebuild

It may be that I'm straddling a fence in purgatory that keeps Dame, but you guys are most definitely straddling a fence in the same damn zip-code by saying trade Dame for essentially a completed rebuild

Simons is only 23, but yes.... Dame.... Nurk.... Hart.... you trade all those guys if you're going full rebuild.
 
They should be looking towards acquiring talent that makes them contenders. Not running on the same treadmill expecting different results.

Our best player is 32 years old. If trading him gives us the right assets, you don't just blindly say no.
I'm not satisfied yet with what we have but we're hardly going to be running the same treadmill this upcoming season that we had the six seasons before this last one... unless the only thing you think is keeping us on that treadmill and from advancing further is Dame.
 
They should be looking towards acquiring talent that makes them contenders. Not running on the same treadmill expecting different results.

Our best player is 32 years old. If trading him gives us the right assets, you don't just blindly say no.

I don't "blindly say no"...that's bullshit

come up with any realistic trade that makes good sense and I'll discuss it. But you're not doing that, you're blindly saying trade Dame
 
I'm not satisfied yet with what we have but we're hardly going to be running the same treadmill this upcoming season that we had the six seasons before this last one... unless the only thing you think is keeping us on that treadmill and from advancing further is Dame.
It will be the same treadmill in terms of doing the play in or 6th seed. And not having a chance to compete. Just different personnel.
 
I don't "blindly say no"...that's bullshit

come up with any realistic trade that makes good sense and I'll discuss it. But you're not doing that, you're blindly saying trade Dame
No. I'm saying we would be morons to turn down any offers and not listen to what his value is. That isn't blindly saying trade Dame.

I'm not married to one Player. I'm a Blazers fan above all. Watching a team make the playoffs with no chance of winning it all is depressing and not fun.
 
It will be the same treadmill in terms of doing the play in or 6th seed. And not having a chance to compete. Just different personnel.
I'm just not sure of that yet. I think Ant can be much more complementary to Dame than CJ ever was, I think Grant is the best forward we've had since LaMarcus and I think we still have to see what they do with the rest of the off season. If they add one more forward that's better than what we've had in the past, why wouldn't we expect better results than we've had in the past... especially with a coach that I'm pretty sure all of us think will utilize the personnel in a more dynamic manor than the last one did?
 
No. I'm saying we would be morons to turn down any offers and not listen to what his value is. That isn't blindly saying trade Dame.

and you know the Blazers are not doing that due diligence?

I'm assuming they are. I'm also assuming that the potential sale of the Blazers would be a monkey-wrench in any 'trade-Dame' scenario. Are either of those unrealistic expectations?
 
The only part of the resume that he doesn't have is the championship. The fact is that is because of Olshey's shitty team building around him. If you don't think that then I don't really give a shit because it means that you either haven't been paying attention or you don't know what you're talking about. If you think staying with the Dame/CJ experiment so long was a good idea, I feel bad for you. If you think that Dame was the bad variable in that experiment, I feel worse for you. The fact is that Dame has been one of the top 5 offensive weapons in the league over the past six seasons before last season and he was surrounded but uncomplementary teammates and a bad coach.

I agree that Olshey was a horrible GM, but the worst mistake he ever made was making Lillard out to be a superstar and paying him as such when Dame didn't have the chops to lead a team to the championship. Olshey had been doing a great job up until he lost LMA to free agency, and then he just got scared. Scared that he would also lose Lillard, and scared to lose other players. So he wildly overpaid them all and put the team into a salary cap purgatory that they still haven't recovered from. He also traded first-round draft picks away for temporary players to placate Lillard. Making Lillard the focal point of the team HAS NOT WORKED. It's been tried for a number of years now, and he isn't even in his prime anymore. It's time to look to the future and stop mortgaging that future for one guy who will never win our team a championship without significant help.
 
Unlike the 3 you named....Dame hasn't changed teams ...great players but didn't retire Blazers...that's what I call a franchise player...hence the Dirk, Duncan comparison. Also the 3 guys you mentioned had a lot more talent to play with than Dame has had in his era.

Walton didn't have more than Dame. He had Lucas who was not necessarily a star but a very good player. Everyone else on that championship team were role players. Solid role players but role nonetheless.

I got your reference to Duncan/Dirk but I guess I look at a franchise player differently.

So....was Jordan not a franchise player? Kareem? Shaq? Chamberlain? Lebron?

I guess I look at franchise players as the ones who shape and change a franchise (in a positive manner). To say they had to play for only one team in order to be considered a franchise player is a pretty narrow scope.
 
and you know the Blazers are not doing that due diligence?

I'm assuming they are. I'm also assuming that the potential sale of the Blazers would be a monkey-wrench in any 'trade-Dame' scenario. Are either of those unrealistic expectations?
Of course not. But there are many folks on the "i don't care, we must keep Dame" train that is infuriating. One player is not above the team.

I haven't felt strong about a Dame team competing since Wes went down with that injury.

Before that, drafting Oden with pick #1 gave us that same feeling of potentially contending. Obviously, that didn't work. But we had the potential talent.

I don't see a reasonable path to get there with our assets right now around Dame. Sad to see. I'd love nothing more than for him to win one here.
 
Of course not. But there are many folks on the "i don't care, we must keep Dame" train that is infuriating. One player is not above the team.

I haven't felt strong about a Dame team competing since Wes went down with that injury.

Before that, drafting Oden with pick #1 gave us that same feeling of potentially contending. Obviously, that didn't work. But we had the potential talent.

I don't see a reasonable path to get there with our assets right now around Dame. Sad to see. I'd love nothing more than for him to win one here.

ok...here's where I'm at:

I don't believe the Blazers can trade Dame for contending assets and I don't believe that can trade him for good rebuilding assets. There's no realistic path that I can see to contention for the next 3-5 years by trading Dame

there may not be any better path to contention by keeping him, but at least watching Dame lead the new roster would be great entertainment, and as I said, I think some of you are unnecessarily pessimistic about Portland's near future
 
ok...here's where I'm at:

I don't believe the Blazers can trade Dame for contending assets and I don't believe that can trade him for good rebuilding assets. There's no realistic path that I can see to contention for the next 3-5 years by trading Dame

there may not be any better path to contention by keeping him, but at least watching Dame lead the new roster would be great entertainment, and as I said, I think some of you are unnecessarily pessimistic about Portland's near future
I think a lot of posters are unneccesarily optimistic with our team. We need another star next to Dame.

The point isn't that we would immediately become contenders without Dame. The draw is even if we suck the next 4 years, there is the chance we could draft enough talent to potentially become contenders. Instead of seeing the next 3-5 years of the same 5th seed or worse where we maybe make the 2nd round but have no chance at winning a title. Then starting over and waiting 4 years because we suck without Dame.

Most of us aren't getting younger. I was not alive in 77. I'd like to have the hope of seeing a title in my lifetime.
 
I agree that Olshey was a horrible GM, but the worst mistake he ever made was making Lillard out to be a superstar and paying him as such when Dame didn't have the chops to lead a team to the championship. Olshey had been doing a great job up until he lost LMA to free agency, and then he just got scared. Scared that he would also lose Lillard, and scared to lose other players. So he wildly overpaid them all and put the team into a salary cap purgatory that they still haven't recovered from. He also traded first-round draft picks away for temporary players to placate Lillard. Making Lillard the focal point of the team HAS NOT WORKED. It's been tried for a number of years now, and he isn't even in his prime anymore. It's time to look to the future and stop mortgaging that future for one guy who will never win our team a championship without significant help.
He wildly overpaid them all except Dame who is a legitimate superstar. Look up one other guy that's been on either the first or second allnba team every season they've legitimately played in over the last six seasons. Is your opinion that all of them are legitimate superstars except Dame? Like seriously where does your warped sense of how mediocre you think Dame is come from? He is one of the top five best offensive weapons in the league. What else would you need to be a superstar? If you want to say defense you're kidding yourself. What you need to win a championship if you're a superstar with Dame's skills is defense around you, some three point shooting and some people who will actually finish when you get them the ball in the paint.

You are mistaken if you think that Olshey made a bad decision with Dame's contracts and Cronin won't be either. The bad decisions that have been made have been the personnel around him, the roster and the coach. Those things are changing... I'm a little concerned that we are changing from a score first miniature SG next to Dame to a score first miniature SG next to Dame but we'll see how that turns out. I think the Grant change is great and we'll have to see what other changes are made but you are wrong when you identify Dame as the problem. You can't admit that the players around him have been bad choices and then act like that isn't a factor or considering Dame's numbers the determining factor in things not working.
 
I think a lot of posters are unneccesarily optimistic with our team. We need another star next to Dame.

yeah, Portland needs another star. But if they trade Dame, they suddenly need two stars. Getting one star may be really difficult; getting two is probably impossible

Most of us aren't getting younger. I was not alive in 77. I'd like to have the hope of seeing a title in my lifetime.

I was 25 in '77 so the chances are good you have more lifetime left.....unless you keep pissing me off
 
yeah, Portland needs another star. But if they trade Dame, they suddenly need two stars. Getting one star may be really difficult; getting two is probably impossible



I was 25 in '77 so the chances are good you have more lifetime left.....unless you keep pissing me off
And where is the best place for a small market team to get a star? In the draft. And your odds of getting one is higher if you have a higher pick. How did we get Dame?

OKC is looking pretty good for the future. I'm kinda jealous. Even if I don't love Chet.
 
I think a lot of posters are unneccesarily optimistic with our team. We need another star next to Dame.

The point isn't that we would immediately become contenders without Dame. The draw is even if we suck the next 4 years, there is the chance we could draft enough talent to potentially become contenders. Instead of seeing the next 3-5 years of the same 5th seed or worse where we maybe make the 2nd round but have no chance at winning a title. Then starting over and waiting 4 years because we suck without Dame.

Most of us aren't getting younger. I was not alive in 77. I'd like to have the hope of seeing a title in my lifetime.

Yes, every year they pay Lillard the max is putting off contention for at least that long. Meanwhile, how many first-round draft picks have been traded away for player rentals? One of the primary roads to a championship team has been eliminated for the Blazers in the name of winning immediately for Lillard's sake. In many ways, he is holding the team hostage until he takes all the money he can. If he really wants to win, he needs to stay for a contract more in line with what he is worth. If not, trade him while there are still teams that would take him, because as soon as he signs that extension, he is virtually untradeable.
 
I don't believe the Blazers can trade Dame for contending assets and I don't believe that can trade him for good rebuilding assets. There's no realistic path that I can see to contention for the next 3-5 years by trading Dame

I can at least work with this. I'm not sure I agree though. Let's say you trade Dame for picks and young talent.

Scenario #1:

Sharpe pops. We're back in the lottery and we pull the top pick in the draft. We pick a guy who is the next superstar player (think Anthony Davis type of player). Now we have two star players who are both young and we can start building around them.

Scenario #2:

Ant and Sharpe both pop. We're still in the lottery and we grab another star level player. Maybe not generational talent but a Jabari Smith or Chet or Paolo. I don't think those guys are generational but they could be multi-year AllStars. You have a solid core of Ant/Sharp/third star and you work on acquiring role players around them.

The thing is, our foundation is flawed. We have one bonafide superstar, we have Ant who might be a star in the making (but I think he needs to be in Dame's role to really break out) and we have Jerami Grant.That's not a championship foundation, so everything else we put around it is just window dressing. It was the same problem with Neil.
 
I always thought the Lakers were stupid to be paying Kobe that much money while they clearly needed to rebuild..... and here we are.

The difference, is that Kobe won 5 rings.
And Cap Space is a lot higher and will continue to rise
 
Dame will never be traded ..book it ..the idea that he can't win a championship because he gets a raise is nonsense too...there are more vets without jobs in the NBA right now than I can remember...everybody wants a roster spot and those vets won't break the bank....guys like Melo ..even LA, Griffin and Milsap were low paid bench players ..times have changed. We've got plenty of rookie contracts right now. Jody is willing to spend is what this says to me. Guys know they can price themselves out of the market so they'll take cuts to play for a team that gives them minutes or rotation spots. Plenty of Trendon Watfords out there that can ball and are cheap
 
Dame will never be traded ..book it ..the idea that he can't win a championship because he gets a raise is nonsense too...there are more vets without jobs in the NBA right now than I can remember...everybody wants a roster spot and those vets won't break the bank....guys like Melo ..even LA, Griffin and Milsap were low paid bench players ..times have changed. We've got plenty of rookie contracts right now. Jody is willing to spend is what this says to me. Guys know they can price themselves out of the market so they'll take cuts to play for a team that gives them minutes or rotation spots. Plenty of Trendon Watfords out there that can ball and are cheap

Lillard will never win a championship in Portland as long as he is on a max contract...that you can book.

Interesting that you brought up Melo, the classic example of a guy taking all of his team's free agent money and then leaving, never having led a contender. That will be Lillard's legacy as well, unless he takes a pay cut.
 
Lillard will never win a championship in Portland as long as he is on a max contract...that you can book.

Interesting that you brought up Melo, the classic example of a guy taking all of his team's free agent money and then leaving, never having led a contender. That will be Lillard's legacy as well, unless he takes a pay cut.

Yeah, that will totally be his legacy. Totally.

Thats your opinion, thats not what his legacy WILL be.
 
Lillard will never win a championship in Portland as long as he is on a max contract...that you can book.

Interesting that you brought up Melo, the classic example of a guy taking all of his team's free agent money and then leaving, never having led a contender. That will be Lillard's legacy as well, unless he takes a pay cut.
nonsense...but you can approach this era with that negative affirmation..I plan to enjoy it .."will never" are your words...not his, not Chauncey's or his teammates but hey...not everyone enjoys change. It's not your money. Why do you care? Dame's legacy will be that of the greatest Blazer ever...HOF lock and nothing but respect....pass it on. Value systems are weird....you probably watched a movie where some actor just earned 20 million dollars for 6 weeks work and you're honestly going to sweat Dame's value in comparison? And Dame invests his money and spends a lot of it in Oregon. I'll take that anytime...guys aren't coming here to play with Sharpe...they're coming here to play with Lillard....even Harden made us an option...times are changing
 
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I, perhaps, have a different outlook on the team and this year (and not trading Dame now).

I actually enjoyed the tank. I was flat out bored watching same ‘old, same ‘old with the same results; solid mediocrity.

I enjoyed watching the young guys playing with heart and raw abandonment. Sometimes that was painful to watch but it had more of an energy as compared the traditional sameness.

I hope Dame seriously buys into Billups-ball and becomes at least slightly more defensively adept.

I would watch the Grizzlies and wonder why we didn’t play with such enthusiasm.

In some ways I kinda think getting top value for our guys last year was secondary and making the roster more Billups-able was primary.

I want to see what happens when we have everyone (hopefully) bought-in and playing Billups-ball.

Do I expect us to be contenders this year? No.

Do I expect them to be more watchable? Yes.

I am hoping for improvement and refinement as needed.

I hope to see the team playing with refined abandonment as compared to the reckless, playground abandonment we saw at the end of the year.

Go Blazers. Make us proud to be fans. Pedal-to-the-metal-don’t-hit-cruise.
 
nonsense...but you can approach this era with that negative affirmation..I plan to enjoy it .."will never" are your words...not his, not Chauncey's or his teammates but hey...not everyone enjoys change. It's not your money. Why do you care? Dame's legacy will be that of the greatest Blazer ever...HOF lock and nothing but respect....pass it on. Value systems are weird....you probably watched a movie where some actor just earned 20 million dollars for 6 weeks work and you're honestly going to sweat Dame's value in comparison? And Dame invests his money and spends a lot of it in Oregon. I'll take that anytime...guys aren't coming here to play with Sharpe...they're coming here to play with Lillard....even Harden made us an option...times are changing
Ok but who exactly are these players coming here to play with Lillard?
 
I also enjoyed the Lillard-less Blazers, especially that 4-game win streak before they shut everyone down. It was the first time in quite awhile that the Blazers looked hungry. It was also interesting to watch C.J. become a new man with the Pels. He seemed to be motivated beyond what I had seen in Portland since his early years when he was trying to break into the starting lineup. I think there is something kind of soul-crushing about diverting so much of the team's resources and control to one guy, especially if he is the point guard, and he is in it only for himself. It's hard to watch as a fan, and I suspect it is hard to participate in as a player. It must have been particularly difficult to be winning while Lillard sat, only to have management shut everything down.

I do agree that we are in a new chapter with glimmers of hope, I just don't think that hope has anything to do with Lillard or his contract demands. It's mostly because finally we have some younger players who are hungry and energetic. Heck, they might even learn to play some defense.
 
Ok but who exactly are these players coming here to play with Lillard?
Every player that's signed here basically and some who didn't and listed us as a destination like Harden...Melo signed here to play with Dame...Pau Gasol signed here to play with Dame...Jerami Grant only wanted to play with Dame in Portland this season...times are changing and Lillard is our talent magnet. Also guys traded here usually want to stick around...like Nurk and Ant. Dame is the draw here...simple
 
Every player that's signed here basically and some who didn't and listed us as a destination like Harden...Melo signed here to play with Dame...Pau Gasol signed here to play with Dame...Jerami Grant only wanted to play with Dame in Portland this season...times are changing and Lillard is our talent magnet. Also guys traded here usually want to stick around...like Nurk and Ant. Dame is the draw here...simple

This is quite a spin. The reality is that most players the Blazers have tried to sign in free agency while Lillard has been here have flatly said no thanks, or 'Noooooo sir' as Kevin Durant's brother recently commented. Pau Gasol was a glue factory candidate who would have signed anywhere, and he ended up retiring before playing a minute in Portland. It's funny to even mention him as evidence of anything. Carmelo came because the dearth of talent in Portland made him think he could still be a starter here despite his diminished skills. As soon as he was no longer a starter, he was gone like Moses through the corn. I am sure that Nurk and Ant get along great with Lillard, but it isn't like we can credit Dame with bringing them to Portland. Like Grant, Nurk came here via trade, and Ant was drafted. Heck, Ant is probably trying to drum up an offer sheet from another team as we speak, and if the Blazers don't match, he will be gone. It's not like he is taking less to play with Lillard. I suspect Grant also will be shopping around and taking the highest offer after this season. If he pre-emptively agrees to sign for less than market value, then you will have some evidence, but he came here because the Blazers paid multiple draft picks for him, not because of his being enamored with Lillard.

But by all means, let's see how many ring-chasers come to Portland during the upcoming free-agency period. If we get a bunch of talented guys lining up to take less money because they want to play with Lillard, I will happily eat my words.
 
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