Worst contracts in the league

[handiman]

My sense is the cap and LT threshold are so much bigger than many are used to that the big contract amounts seem like overpaying when it's in line.

Guys are being paid far more than they're worth this year. It'll take a couple years as more players cycle through the new contracts, and especially more better players, before this year's contracts normalize. What I proposed would have normalized everyone right off the bat, keeping contracts in line with players' ability. Most teams have a role player being paid like a super star this year.

 

[H.C.]

Doesn't matter. When you are being paid the most in the league you better be a top ten in the league or its a bad contract.

Mike Conley is a top 5 pg in the NBA easily.
Unfortunately for the past couple years he's been just like Anthony Davis in terms of availability.

 

[blue9]

Curry, Harden, Westbrook, CP3...Conley?

 

[H.C.]

Curry, Harden, Westbrook, CP3...Conley?

I really like CP3 when he's playing basketball. The "extra stuff" he does on the court I dislike. Always have from his nut punching days in college.
But I can't put CP3 in the top 5 point guard list anymore, he's injury prone and has had a ton of talent around him his entire career. Yet he's had so little playoff success. Winning in the playoffs matters.

Top 5 point guards if the playoffs started right now, due to past playoff success.(and everyone was healthy)
Westbrick, Curry, Conley, Lillard, Parker.
(Irving doesn't make this list, because I'm not entirely positive the Cavs make the playoffs yet in his career without LBJ returning)

Top 5 point guards for the season so far.
Westbrick, Harden, Curry, Conley, Lillard.
However due to injuries Conley will fall off this list due to being out indefinitely.
Most-likely replaced by CP3 until he gets hurt as well.

 

[riverman]

I hate to say it given he's just had a couple of good games but Wes Mathews belongs on the list...so I guess this list has guys who teams could swap bad deals since they already have one

 

[Orion Bailey]

Mike Conley is a top 5 pg in the NBA easily.
Unfortunately for the past couple years he's been just like Anthony Davis in terms of availability.

PG yes. But top 10 player in the league? Not in my opinion. Not worth the money. Bad contract.

 

[oldfisherman]

Signing both Turner and Crabbe to huge contracts was a very bad business decision, for a lot of reasons.

Olshey should have let the Nets munch on Crabbe’s PPP contract. Even if Crabbe does develop into a starter, he is a role player. His contract is too rich for what he can contribute, even if he reaches his ceiling.

When you are working within a budget, giving such a high % of that budget to role players and average starters is going to limit who you can sign in the future.

I would much rather have the cap space than Crabbe and his contract. The use it or lose it mentality is BS. We gained nothing by using that cap space this season. However, we could have used that cap space next season to sign a center. Either re-signing Plumlee, or, a C we trade for.

Crabbe does not have any trade value to help us make that trade for a center. In reality, Crabbe has negative trade value and reduces our chances of trading for one.

Turner’s signing was not as bad. He is a more complete player than Crabbe ever will be. However, at this time, I do not believe his trade value is very high due to the size of his contract. He probably will have more trade value in a year or two, which makes overpaying him now easier to swallow.

Crabbe’s contract is going to haunt the Blazers until it ends, or Olshey can pay some team to take him off of our hands.

 

[blue9]

I would much rather have the cap space than Crabbe and his contract. The use it or lose it mentality is BS. We gained nothing by using that cap space this season. However, we could have used that cap space next season to sign a center.

Actually, that's the issue - even if we hadn't matched on Crabbe we wouldn't have cap space to use next summer. That's why we matched - better to have an asset (even a negative asset) than no asset at all...or so the thinking goes.

I do agree with you that it's unlikely he could ever live up to his contract given his role with the team and the limited nature of his game. I'm not in favor of the Crabbe signing. However, it's not keeping us from signing other players so it really only hurts Paul, not the Blazers.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Actually, that's the issue - even if we hadn't matched on Crabbe we wouldn't have cap space to use next summer. That's why we matched - better to have an asset (even a negative asset) than no asset at all...or so the thinking goes.

I do agree with you that it's unlikely he could ever live up to his contract given his role with the team and the limited nature of his game. I'm not in favor of the Crabbe signing. However, it's not keeping us from signing other players so it really only hurts Paul, not the Blazers.

Yes, and no. You are correct, C.J.'s extension will put us over the cap going forward, even without the Crabbe contract. So, we didn't lose any cap space by matching BRK's ridiculous offer sheet to Crabbe.

However, in doing so, it puts us right up against the luxury tax threshold (within $26.5k), which severely limits our future roster flexibility. For example, it will impact our ability to re-sign Plumlee. We may be faced with either losing him for nothing, or a huge luxury tax payout over the next several years. And, if it comes down to letting Plumlee walk for nothing, we will have the Crabbe contract to thank for that.

Right now, we can't even sign a player to the vet min without going over the luxury tax threshold. So yeah, it does impact future roster moves and flexibility.

BNM

 

[oldfisherman]

Actually, that's the issue - even if we hadn't matched on Crabbe we wouldn't have cap space to use next summer. That's why we matched - better to have an asset (even a negative asset) than no asset at all...or so the thinking goes.

I do agree with you that it's unlikely he could ever live up to his contract given his role with the team and the limited nature of his game. I'm not in favor of the Crabbe signing. However, it's not keeping us from signing other players so it really only hurts Paul, not the Blazers.

I agree with you to a point.
With or without signing Crabbe, we will not have the cap space to sign a FA next season.

However, since we can re-sign our own RFAs, such as Plumlee or one we trade for before the deadline, such as Noel. With Crabbe’s contract, re-signing a RFA will put us that much deeper into the luxury tax.

Example:
Right now the Blazers are sitting right on, or over the projected luxury tax for next season (17/18), with only 11 guaranteed contracts. They still have 4 roster spots to fill.

Crabbe’s contract will be for $18 million (rounded)
The 1st $5 million will generate $7.5 million in luxury tax. = $12.5 million
The 2nd $5 million will generate $8.75 million in luxury tax. = $13.75 million
The 3rd $5 million will generate $12.5 million in luxury tax. = $17.5 million
The last 3 million will generate $9.75 million in Luxury tax. = $12.75 million

Crabbe’s contract will cost the luxury tax paying Blazers $56.5 million for the 17/18 season. The next season, he gets even more expensive when the repeater tax kicks in.

That is bad business in my book.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

At the trade deadline in the 2019-20 season, we'll have...
say it with me...
ACEC!!!!!

Signing both Turner and Crabbe to huge contracts was a very bad business decision, for a lot of reasons.

Olshey should have let the Nets munch on Crabbe’s PPP contract. Even if Crabbe does develop into a starter, he is a role player. His contract is too rich for what he can contribute, even if he reaches his ceiling.

When you are working within a budget, giving such a high % of that budget to role players and average starters is going to limit who you can sign in the future.

I would much rather have the cap space than Crabbe and his contract. The use it or lose it mentality is BS. We gained nothing by using that cap space this season. However, we could have used that cap space next season to sign a center. Either re-signing Plumlee, or, a C we trade for.

Crabbe does not have any trade value to help us make that trade for a center. In reality, Crabbe has negative trade value and reduces our chances of trading for one.

Turner’s signing was not as bad. He is a more complete player than Crabbe ever will be. However, at this time, I do not believe his trade value is very high due to the size of his contract. He probably will have more trade value in a year or two, which makes overpaying him now easier to swallow.

Crabbe’s contract is going to haunt the Blazers until it ends, or Olshey can pay some team to take him off of our hands.

 

[Charcoal Filtered]

Testing my new signature .

 

[blue9]

That is bad business in my book.

Oh, I totally agree. But as I said, I think it only really impacts Paul. It sounds like I might be in the minority, but I do believe that we'll be able to trade Crabbe by next season's trade deadline if not sooner.

To BNM's point about the repeater tax, I fully expect Olshey to make moves to make sure that's not an issue. It might cost us draft picks, which are never good to lose (and ties into the "bad business" comment). But regardless of Crabbe's contract, this past summer was the last summer we'd have cap space for the remainder of Dame's contract. So with that perspective I guess I would begrudgingly rather have Crabbe than have nothing.

 

[PDXFonz]

Curry, Harden, Westbrook, CP3...Conley?

Curry, Harden, Westbrook, Dame, CP3 , Irving, Thomas, CONley, Wall

Top 5 any given night take one over the other. If I were to draft today I would take all the aforementioned PG's over Conley.

People sleep on Kyrie, dudes a flat out winner.

 

[oldfisherman]

Oh, I totally agree. But as I said, I think it only really impacts Paul. It sounds like I might be in the minority, but I do believe that we'll be able to trade Crabbe by next season's trade deadline if not sooner.

To BNM's point about the repeater tax, I fully expect Olshey to make moves to make sure that's not an issue. It might cost us draft picks, which are never good to lose (and ties into the "bad business" comment). But regardless of Crabbe's contract, this past summer was the last summer we'd have cap space for the remainder of Dame's contract. So with that perspective I guess I would begrudgingly rather have Crabbe than have nothing.

When a team is $4 million above the luxury tax threshold, there are other penalties that kick in. There is more to it than money out of PA's wallet. These penalties can affect a team’s ability to acquire more talented players.

A team $4 million above the luxury tax:
1) Cannot use the Bi-Annual exception
2) Have a smaller Mid-Level exception
3) Can offer contracts no longer than three years, while other teams can offer four.
4) Cannot receive a player in a sign-and-trade transaction if their team salary is above the apron at the conclusion of the trade
5) Do not have the same protections under the Gilbert Arenas provision. Under the Arenas provision other teams can offer restricted free agents salaries starting at the Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception. If a team with the right of first refusal does not have Early Bird rights to the player and is over the apron, it will have only the smaller Taxpayer Mid-Level exception at its disposal, and cannot match an offer for the full Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception.
6) Do not receive a distribution from the league wide tax fund.

In short, the Blazers are now fucked. If I am a GM of another team, I would make it very costly for the Blazers to dump salary.

 

[blue9]

In short, the Blazers are now fucked. If I am a GM of another team, I would make it very costly for the Blazers to dump salary.

Perhaps. We'll have to see how it all plays out, but even though I don't have much faith in Olshey's ability to target and sign the right FAs, I do think he can manage the team so as not to be over the lux tax. If it's that important we should easily be able to shed salary through the value contracts of Aminu/Davis (neither of which I would consider to be much of a loss). And I'm sure there are a handful of teams that would love to take on Meyers, despite the fact* we all** hate him. Beyond that we have a VERY valuable Harkless (whom I'd hate to trade, and if it's done solely because Crabbe is un-moveable then I'll quickly recant all of these posts).

*Not an actual fact.
**We don't ALL hate him.

 

[PDXFonz]

Curry, Harden, Westbrook, Dame, CP3 , Irving, Thomas, CONley, Wall

Top 5 any given night take one over the other. If I were to draft today I would take all the aforementioned PG's over Conley.

People sleep on Kyrie, dudes a flat out winner.

Lowry should probably be on that list ahead of Conley too, and depending on my system I might even take Wall over Conley as well.

So there you have it, barely a top 10 point guard in the league, making the leagues highest salary. I was sitting here thinking about where he would rank overall and realized I wouldn't even put him in the top 25, so I decided to go and look at ESPN's latest NBA ranks to see where they put him.

Turns out he's one spot behind our very own CJ McCollum, which puts Conley at #27. Which I think could be considered generous.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/page/nbarank27

According to ESPN - Lowry, Wall, Irving, Dame, Harden, CP3, Westbrook, and Curry (in descending order) are all better point guards than Conley. And according to them Thomas is only 2 spots behind Conley at #29.

Also either I missed the thread, or people (like me) don't care that much for ESPN anymore. However this didn't go unnoticed...

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/page/nbarank10_2016

 

[H.C.]

Curry, Harden, Westbrook, Dame, CP3 , Irving, Thomas, CONley, Wall

Top 5 any given night take one over the other. If I were to draft today I would take all the aforementioned PG's over Conley.

People sleep on Kyrie, dudes a flat out winner.

How much did he win before LeBron returned? I forgot.

 

[PDXFonz]

Lets assume no matter who you choose, they are on a 5 year, 153 million dollar contract.

You are starting a team from scratch and have no other players on your roster thus far. Disregarding any injuries to any players this current season, who would you choose to be the guy on a max contract?

Mike Conley
Carmelo Anthony
Kevin Love
Isaiah Thomas
Demar Derozan
Marc Gasol
Hassan Whiteside
Kristaps Porzingis
Gordon Hayward
Steven Adams
Rudy Gobert

 

[PDXFonz]

How much did he win before LeBron returned? I forgot.

He averaged 25 points and 5 assists during last years playoffs. Of course James helped a team that was otherwise fairly weak, but that's what happens when you add the best player in the world to a basketball team.

Then of course there was this shot.

 

[H.C.]

He averaged 25 points and 5 assists during last years playoffs. Of course James helped a team that was otherwise fairly weak, but that's what happens when you add the best player in the world to a basketball team.

Then of course there was this shot.

Not denying his ability to score.
But how much did he win before LeBron returned.
You called Kyrie a flat out winner, how many times did he lead the Cavs to the playoffs without LeBron? Or even a .500 record?
You change the subject to fit your point a lot on these boards. How about you just answer the question?
Kyrie is far from a winner. A lot of scoring guards would look elite next to LeBron.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Lets assume no matter who you choose, they are on a 5 year, 153 million dollar contract.

You are starting a team from scratch and have no other players on your roster thus far. Disregarding any injuries to any players this current season, who would you choose to be the guy on a max contract?

Mike Conley
Carmelo Anthony
Kevin Love
Isaiah Thomas
Demar Derozan
Marc Gasol
Hassan Whiteside
Kristaps Porzingis
Gordon Hayward
Steven Adams
Rudy Gobert

None of the above.

 

[PDXFonz]

Not denying his ability to score.
But how much did he win before LeBron returned.
You called Kyrie a flat out winner, how many times did he lead the Cavs to the playoffs without LeBron? Or even a .500 record?
You change the subject to fit your point a lot on these boards. How about you just answer the question?
Kyrie is far from a winner. A lot of scoring guards would look elite next to LeBron.

Wasn't changing the subject, you green fonted "I forgot" implying that you knew the cavs history after Lebron left and before he returned. I figured it was rhetorical...

The Cavs never made the playoffs in the years without Lebron, not as much because of Kyrie, but because the rosters outside of Kyrie were pretty terrible. Not winning a championship does not make you a loser, sometimes winners lose, and sometimes losers win. I still maintain Kyrie is a winner.

Is Dame not a winner because he has not won a championship? How about Reggie Miller?

 

[H.C.]

Wasn't changing the subject, you green fonted "I forgot" implying that you knew the cavs history after Lebron left and before he returned. I figured it was rhetorical...

The Cavs never made the playoffs in the years without Lebron. Not winning a championship does not make you a loser, sometimes winners lose, and sometimes losers win. I still maintain Kyrie is a winner.

Is Dame not a winner because he has not won a championship? How about Reggie Miller?

Again not what I asked.
Being a winner means you actually win games. You said he was a winner yet if anything Kyrie and Crawford are the same player.
Glorified scoring guards who can't do anything on their own.
21, 24, and 33 wins. In the leastern conference. Something you can't say about the two players you mentioned.
Hell Kevin Love is more of a winner than Kyrie... He at least got his team to a .500 record his last year in the West.(however I'd say that was more Rubio's doing than Love. But Love was the best player on that team.)

Kyrie Irving is far from a winner, as well as no one sleeps on him. He can score and dance on anyone.
But he's not a winner nor a leader.

 

[BigGameDamian]

Ryan Anderson is playing well for Houston and is a good complement to James Harden. Not to mention the Rockets do have a winning record so it can't be all that bad.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Lets assume no matter who you choose, they are on a 5 year, 153 million dollar contract.

You are starting a team from scratch and have no other players on your roster thus far. Disregarding any injuries to any players this current season, who would you choose to be the guy on a max contract?

Mike Conley
Carmelo Anthony
Kevin Love
Isaiah Thomas
Demar Derozan
Marc Gasol
Hassan Whiteside
Kristaps Porzingis
Gordon Hayward
Steven Adams
Rudy Gobert

KP

 

[Orion Bailey]

Wasn't changing the subject, you green fonted "I forgot" implying that you knew the cavs history after Lebron left and before he returned. I figured it was rhetorical...

The Cavs never made the playoffs in the years without Lebron, not as much because of Kyrie, but because the rosters outside of Kyrie were pretty terrible. Not winning a championship does not make you a loser, sometimes winners lose, and sometimes losers win. I still maintain Kyrie is a winner.

Is Dame not a winner because he has not won a championship? How about Reggie Miller?

Karl Malone, John Stockton, Patrick Ewing, Charles Barkley...

All winner in my book even though they don't have a ring. Like them or not, they had the mentality and ferociousness to want to be a champ and every one of these guys came very close.
A ring is not a be all end all definition of a winner.

 

[PDXFonz]

Karl Malone, John Stockton, Patrick Ewing, Charles Barkley...

All winner in my book even though they don't have a ring. Like them or not, they had the mentality and ferociousness to want to be a champ and every one of these guys came very close.
A ring is not a be all end all definition of a winner.

I fully agree, both with the names and the statement. I also don't think someone is not a winner because they couldn't carry a team into the playoffs single handed. Second best player on those Cavs rosters was probably TT. Even Dame had a pretty damn good supporting player in CJ last season.

 

[illmatic99]

Cap projections for 2020 are at 120 mil and tax threshold at 143.

ACs 18 is gonna be reasonable when this is all said and done

 

[illmatic99]

With the $120 million cap figure, max salaries would be $42 million annually for Tier 1, $36 million for Tier 2 and $30 million for Tier 3.