Wow, It just hit me: Bobby Gross

[MAS RipCity]

9 ppg, 4apg, 3 rpg and we are freaking retiring his number!?!?!?! Fuck, raise Blake and Damon's Jersey while we are at it with those numbers.
I do NOT care if we won a title because of him, you do not retire role players' jerseys. I know this franchise has had little success, but we already have way too many unwarranted jerseys hanging up in the RG rafters.
I love how the guys on Courtside are trying to justify this retiring....blah blah blah

 

[Minstrel]

Bill Walton and Clyde Drexler are the only two numbers that should be retired. Retiring numbers of players who weren't great cheapens the honour, IMO.

 

[MARIS61]

I do NOT care if we won a title because of him, you do not retire role players' jerseys.

Dumbest post of the week.

Role players win Championships, Superstars get the credit.

Players with no rings should never have their jerseys retired.

 

[THE HCP]

Bill Walton and Clyde Drexler are the only two numbers that should be retired. Retiring numbers of players who weren't great cheapens the honour, IMO.

I would go with Walton, Clyde, T.P. and James "Hollywood" Robinson!

 

[alex42083]

Players with no rings should never have their jerseys retired.

Not even Karl Malone or John Stockton? Or Patrick Ewing? Or Charles Barkley?

 

[THE HCP]

Dumbest post of the week.

Role players win Championships, Superstars get the credit.

Players with no rings should never have their jerseys retired.

NO Karl Malone or John Stockton? Barkley? Winning a Championship should play NO part on a jersey retirement or being inducted in the Hall of Fame. Shit, JR Rider has a ring!

 

[THE HCP]

Not even Karl Malone or John Stockton? Or Patrick Ewing? Or Charles Barkley?

Very nice post!

 

[alex42083]

I think the team got a little too desperate the last few years of the Jail Blazer era for good pub, and just started retiring those jerseys left and right.
C'mon... Dave Twardzik? It's like retiring Sergio's number in 20 years.

I don't have any problem with Porter, he's my all-time favorite Blazer and possibly the most clutch player ever in our franchise history. But I think also the team felt justified that if they were going to retire Terry's No. 30, they had to do Gross' No. 30 too..

They should have just one banner for the '77 championship team, and have a celebration night every year if they want to always reminicse about it.

Just think if this current team wins a championship, we'll be retiring Joel's number, Nicolas' number, Channing's number!

 

[Boob-No-More]

9 ppg, 4apg, 3 rpg and we are freaking retiring his number!?!?!?! Fuck, raise Blake and Damon's Jersey while we are at it with those numbers.
I do NOT care if we won a title because of him, you do not retire role players' jerseys. I know this franchise has had little success, but we already have way too many unwarranted jerseys hanging up in the RG rafters.
I love how the guys on Courtside are trying to justify this retiring....blah blah blah

Yeah, those are his career averages, but he did average better during the championship season (especially in the play-offs). And, that's what this is really about. If the Blazers had 17 NBA titles, they wouldn't be retiring jerseys for guys like Bobby Gross, Dave Twardzik, Lloyd Neal, Larry Steele and Lionel Hollins.

The problem is, once you start bestowing the honor on the role players from that championship team, you're kind of obligated to do it for all of them. And, if you're just going to base it on being a significant member of that one championship team Gross is more deserving than some of the other guys whose jerseys are hanging from the RG rafters. Gross shot almost 60% from the field and nearly 90% from the line during the 1977 play-offs. He averaged 14.1 PPG, 5.9 RPG and 4.2 APG during the play-offs that year, and his PER of 18.7 during the play-offs was 3rd on the team, right behind Walton (19.7 and Luke 19.0).

By comparison, Larry Steels was absolutely awful during those 1977 play-offs (PER = 8.0, FG% = 0.371, 4.2 PPG, 1.5 RPG and 1.0 APG) and his number 15 has been hanging from the MC and RG rafters for over 27 years. Makes you wonder why it took them so long to getting around to Bobby Gross.

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

I suppose it could be worse. We could be the Clippers. They have zero championships and zero retired jerseys. Several of the expansion teams also have zero retired jerseys, but the Clippers have been around forever. You think the would at least retire Bob McAdoo's number from their days in Buffalo. The guy is a Hall of Famer, won an MVP award and won three straight scoring titles (averaged over 32 PPG for that three year stretch and nearly 14 RPG).

And what's up with the Heat retiring Michael Jordan's number? How retarded is that? I would think actually wearing the team's jersey would be a prerequisite to having them retire your jersey.

BNM

 

[MARIS61]

I think the team got a little too desperate the last few years of the Jail Blazer era for good pub, and just started retiring those jerseys left and right.
C'mon... Dave Twardzik? It's like retiring Sergio's number in 20 years.

Hardly.

Sergio will have 4 or 5 rings by then.

 

[MARIS61]

NO Karl Malone or John Stockton? Barkley? Winning a Championship should play NO part on a jersey retirement or being inducted in the Hall of Fame. Shit, JR Rider has a ring!

I certainly wouldn't. And I wouldn't have retired Clyde's either.

That's what the Hall is for.

Rafters are for Champions, period.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Several players have their numbers retired by two teams (Clyde, Barkley, Oscar Roberston, Bob Lanier, Kareem, Moses Malone. Dr. J., etc.), but I believe Wilt is the only player to have his number (13) retired by three teams (four - if you count the Globetrotters).

New Orleans is a bit weird. They have two retired numbers - Pete Maravich, who played in New Orleans, but not for the Hornets (his number is also rightly retired by the Jazz) and the late Bobby Phills, who was a Hornet, but never played in New Orleans. Phills is one of several players who have had their numbers retired due to an untimely death (Jason Collier, Malik Sealy, Drazen Petrovic, Wendell Ladner, Reggie Lewis).

BNM

 

[maxiep]

Dave Twardzik has said he's a little embarrassed to have his number retired by the Blazers. I understand he's had his number retired by his high school and Old Dominion University, and he felt those were real honors. While he's flattered, he knows what he did here, and feels like he didn't deserve it.

 

[MARIS61]

Yeah, those are his career averages, but he did average better during the championship season (especially in the play-offs). And, that's what this is really about. If the Blazers had 17 NBA titles, they wouldn't be retiring jerseys for guys like Bobby Gross, Dave Twardzik, Lloyd Neal, Larry Steele and Lionel Hollins.
BNM

But they don't have 17 titles.

They have only 1. And it didn't come easy. They had to crawl out of the cellar and make the playoffs for the first time ever for Portland. They had to roll through Jabbar and Co. in LA. They had to duke it out with Dr. J and Chocolate Thunder. And they succeeded. And in doing so, they set the bar. And in 30 years nobody has reached that level in Portland.

They deserve to be retired.

Clyde and Terry, while playing very well for a number of years, failed each opportunity they had at a title.

Retiring their jerseys is cute, and nice for them, but it cheapens the recognition of the true Champions who won before them.

There are other ways to honor their less significant contributions to Portland.

 

[MARIS61]

Phills is one of several players who have had their numbers retired due to an untimely death (Jason Collier, Malik Sealy, Drazen Petrovic, Wendell Ladner, Reggie Lewis).

BNM

What, you're telling me Boston didn't retire Len Bias's number?

Heartless bastards!

 

[MARIS61]

I suppose it could be worse. We could be the Clippers. They have zero championships and zero retired jerseys. Several of the expansion teams also have zero retired jerseys, but the Clippers have been around forever. You think the would at least retire Bob McAdoo's number from their days in Buffalo. The guy is a Hall of Famer, won an MVP award and won three straight scoring titles (averaged over 32 PPG for that three year stretch and nearly 14 RPG).
BNM

The way Sterling mistreated, then discarded his many talented players, I doubt any of them would show up for the ceremony even if he did retire their numbers.

 

[Shooter]

The Blazers have proven that they're suckers for retirement ceremonies. One of these days they're going to retire the number of their trainer, their ball boy, and the janitor who sweeps up the locker room.

 

[ucatchtrout]

9 ppg, 4apg, 3 rpg and we are freaking retiring his number!?!?!?! Fuck, raise Blake and Damon's Jersey while we are at it with those numbers.
I do NOT care if we won a title because of him, you do not retire role players' jerseys. I know this franchise has had little success, but we already have way too many unwarranted jerseys hanging up in the RG rafters.
I love how the guys on Courtside are trying to justify this retiring....blah blah blah

No disrespect meant buy you are only 23 years old. So all all you can do is look at some numbers. You weren't here to see him play and you don't know what he really meant to the team that brought our city its only championship. As a fan I am sure you have learned that stats aren't always the true measure of a players contributions to his team. Gross play during the playoffs was phenonmenal....his d on Erving, his backdoor cuts, his outside shooting.

 

[Paxil]

I agree we have retired too many players during our championship era. I know we hold them dearly... and I am all for a night for them, but retiring Jersey should be for only a few. Someone outside of Portland should have some idea who the player was.

 

[BIG Q]

I do agree they went a bit over board but;

You must remember that the Larry Weinberg, the original owner loved his players. Winning the championship the first time they ever made the playoffs was unheard of. That would be like our team winning it all this year. he also hired many of those players to work for the team. I know Twardzik, Steele and Petrie (the "original Blazer")all worked for the Blazers in various capacities and that factored in probably more than anything in their numbers being retired.

Lucas was and still is a fan favorite in Portland. He did make several All-Star games but his fight in game two that turned the entire series is enough for me to hang his jersey.

LLoyd Neal is still the Blazers single season rebound total record holder, and I believe he did it as a rookie. He was a personal favorite of Weinberg. He would of had a much better career if not for knee injuries. In one game during the title run, or the season after, Neal was in street clothes because of injury. Lucas got ejected so Neal went to the locker room and suited up. He put up like 33/15 to lead Portland to the win. Sure, his number is probably the most dubious, but if you own the team you can retire anything you want. That is Weinbergs one mulligan.

I think that Hollins and Gross are just the last two starters from the title team. Hollins was never back in Portland after he left so that has to be the reason for his jersey retirement. Gross has continued to live in the Portland area and been very involved with the Blazers alumni team and other things of that nature.

Of course Walton and Drexler are no brainers for most Portland fans. I think that Porter is also very close to being a no brainer as well. He made a few all-star games despite playing at the same time as Magic and Stockton. He is amongst the team leaders in many categories and was very, very clutch.

The way I see it, the number retirements in Portland that many question are an example of "keeping Portland Weird." I wish they hadn't retired all those numbers but considering the love affair with that title team I can understand. A good writer could write a story about that team, the futility of the franchise prior to that season and have the next "Hoosiers" movie.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Instead of retiring Gross, they should have just retired the whole championship team
with one "super jersey" - maybe number 77.

 

[Shooter]

No disrespect meant buy you are only 23 years old. So all all you can do is look at some numbers. You weren't here to see him play and you don't know what he really meant to the team that brought our city its only championship. As a fan I am sure you have learned that stats aren't always the true measure of a players contributions to his team. Gross play during the playoffs was phenonmenal....his d on Erving, his backdoor cuts, his outside shooting.

I watched every game of that series, and I love Bobby Gross for his great play against Erving. I have a picture of the '77 championship team on my wall, and Gross is one of my all-time favorite players.

However . . . I think it's really reaching to retire his number based on that one series. The guy was essentially a journeyman player who was a perfect compliment to Walton and Lucas on the front line, and you certainly DO have to consider a guy's career numbers when you're debating whether or not to retire his number.

In short, if you keep retiring the number of players like Steele, Twardzik, and Gross, the whole idea becomes meaningless. The next time we win a title, is the organization going to retire the number of every guy who played a key role in the championship series??

Pretty soon there won't be any more numbers to retire.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

I think it was Paul Pierce who just said that they had to win another championship because
they don't pay any attention to you in Boston unless you win multiple championships.

 

[alex42083]

I certainly wouldn't. And I wouldn't have retired Clyde's either.

That's what the Hall is for.

Rafters are for Champions, period.

I always thought it was the other way around. Jersey retirements can be for guys who helped define your franchise, ie Malone and Stockton.
But when it pertains to the Hall of Fame, people always talk about if they won a championship or not.

 

[alex42083]

Instead of retiring Gross, they should have just retired the whole championship team
with one "super jersey" - maybe number 77.

I think 77 is already retired for Jack Ramsay.

 

[THE HCP]

The Blazers have proven that they're suckers for retirement ceremonies. One of these days they're going to retire the number of their trainer, their ball boy, and the janitor who sweeps up the locker room.

They're retiring my # in March bitches!

 

[Nate4Prez]

They're retiring my # in March bitches!

What are you, pushing 300?

 

[Boob-No-More]

However . . . I think it's really reaching to retire his number based on that one series. The guy was essentially a journeyman player who was a perfect compliment to Walton and Lucas on the front line, and you certainly DO have to consider a guy's career numbers when you're debating whether or not to retire his number.

Well, it's totally up to the team whose numbers they retire and they are free to set any standards they wish. There are always extenuating circumstances. See my earlier post about all the players who had their numbers retired due to an untimely death. I doubt if Wendell Ladner's career numbers were considered when the Nets retired his jersey number (ironically, his career numbers are better than Bobby Gross', but he only played 55 games and averaged only about 5 PPG for the Nets prior to his untimely death in a commercial airline crash.

And then you have guys like Jordan and Maravich that have their jerseys retired by teams the never even played for. At least Bobby Gross played for the Blazers and was a key contributor to their one and only (so far) championship. I kind of get Maravich. He was from Louisiana, played college ball there and much of his NBA career in the city of New Orleans (for a different franchise). So, I get the connection and the desire to honor a native son. But, what the heck did Michael Jordan ever do for the Miami Heat to become their first, and so far only, retired jersey?

In short, if you keep retiring the number of players like Steele, Twardzik, and Gross, the whole idea becomes meaningless. The next time we win a title, is the organization going to retire the number of every guy who played a key role in the championship series??

Pretty soon there won't be any more numbers to retire.

Well, I hope we'll be having that discussion a few years down the road.

Unfortunately, once the Blazers started retiring all the key role players from the '77 Championship team, the mold was cast. Given their role in bringing that championship, I do think they deserve to be honored in some fashion, but I think a Portland Trail Blazer Wall of Fame at the RG with plaques describing their contributions to that '77 champsionship and photos of them in action, would have been more appropriate (and more educational for younger Blazer fans) than hanging their jerseys from the rafters.

And while I don't normally wish to emulate anything the Lakers do, I do like what they've done to honor the key players from the Minneapolis era that brought them their first championships. They have their jerseys hung, in a group, from the rafters, but current players are free to wear those numbers. So, they are honored for their contributions, but their numbers aren't actually retired and permanetly taken out of use.

BNM

 

[Entity]

Retiring numbers can mean two things:

1) For some it's being able to show the fans of other teams the superstars that have been with the team. We can tell people that we had Clyde Drexler and Bill Walton. These were the hall-of-famers that played for us. These were the guys that were among the 50 greatest players. They made the hall, therefore no one else will wear their number.

2) For others it's more of an in-house thing, to remind you and your kids which players made a big difference to Portland. To this type of fan, it's the guys who symbolized the team to the local crowd, not to the outsider. These are the guys like Porter, Gross, Hollins, and Twardzik, and maybe even Kersey someday that made for memorable times. That's how a guy like McMillan gets his number retired in Seattle. To these fans, Walton and Drexler weren't the only Blazers that ever mattered to them and they feel that a few other players ought to be recognized.

I'm the second kind. I don't have a problem retiring these numbers. It's all about where you set the bar. The hall-of-famers, or the more localized legends.