Bogus! WTF is going on in the Oregon House?

[TorturedBlazerFan]

They should be fired too

I agree, Im not siding with the republicans and said they were more in the wrong then the dems here.

 

[theprunetang]

Dems have skipped work before in Texas but if its a cause that aligns with your political leanings its ok, its not than its not. Thus both sides, same crap different day.

Don't put words in my mouth. I'm not talking about Texas. Those dems should have been fired as well. Tired of the What-aboutism.

I can't just not show up to work if I sense something might be uncomfortable. I would lose employment, as would anyone here. Fuck these guys.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

actually I disagree ...skipping work and having that many voters leave the state and meet with the occupation militia dudes is a bit different...any party can caucus and regroup in the capital over their differences but they are elected to show up and vote even if they feel it's a lost cause...

I agree about the hiding with militia stuff, but the skipping work part this isnt the first time that a group from one side has decided screw it Im not showing up.

 

[Road Ratt]

If this is what militia are for nowadays, it's time to put them all in jail for America's safety. Because it's pretty clear that these people have no clue what a true militia is, nor what they were used for in the first place.

 

[riverman]

I agree about the hiding with militia stuff, but the skipping work part this isnt the first time that a group from one side has decided screw it Im not showing up.

Well the president has avoided attending the White House Correspondents Dinner and Kennedy Center honors for two years....if you don't cheer..he won't go to your party...leading by his poor example....ask a question I don't like and I'll stop talking to you....poor leadership by poor example

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Don't put words in my mouth. I'm not talking about Texas. Those dems should have been fired as well. Tired of the What-aboutism.

I can't just not show up to work if I sense something might be uncomfortable. I would lose employment, as would anyone here. Fuck these guys.

the “your” was a general “your” not you specifically.

There are some laws regarding hostile work environments and employers are responsible for giving you a reasonable work experience, but yes I agree the republicans should show up and lose.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Im honestly not really in favor of this bill, at least as constructed, but I still believe the republicans should show up vote, lose, go home and shut up and try to amend it or something later on.

Bringing in militia’s and all that is crap.

I absolutely understand why smaller town conservatives would be frustrated at the politics in this state, but grow up seriously. Threatening violence is what my 3 year old does when she doesn't get her way, its not what adults should do.

 

[Hobbesarable]

Im honestly not really in favor of this bill, at least as constructed, but I still believe the republicans should show up vote, lose, go home and shut up and try to amend it or something later on.

Bringing in militia’s and all that is crap.

I absolutely understand why smaller town conservatives would be frustrated at the politics in this state, but grow up seriously. Threatening violence is what my 3 year old does when she doesn't get her way, its not what adults should do.

Agree. Coming together and finding a middle ground is what adults do.

 

[theprunetang]

Im honestly not really in favor of this bill, at least as constructed, but I still believe the republicans should show up vote, lose, go home and shut up and try to amend it or something later on.

Bringing in militia’s and all that is crap.

I absolutely understand why smaller town conservatives would be frustrated at the politics in this state, but grow up seriously. Threatening violence is what my 3 year old does when she doesn't get her way, its not what adults should do.

You nailed it.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

So let me get this straight:
One side is the majority and will pass a bill in the normal democratic manner, and the other side is refusing to come to work and openly gloating (see below) about heavily armed militias helping them out, and your take is "all politicians suck equally"?

It would have been funnier if they tweeted a picture of that capitol currently instead of using a picture from earlier in the week.

 

[barfo]

I haven’t seen any credible news reporting to that effect, but I suppose it’s possible that there are a couple of loony guys who would do that. I’m sure it will be portrayed that way among Dems.

As I understand it, what the Republicans are asking is that the bill be sent to a vote of the people. Given the broad impacts it would have in this state, I think that’s a reasonable position. Unless, of course, you’re a political party with a supermajority that wants to make a grandstand environmental play that will have only the most minuscule of impacts on the global carbon problem and you’re aware that your pet project will likely go down in flames at the polls.

Gonna have to disagree with you here.

I suppose if you think every issue should be decided directly by the voters, then we can just disband the senate and house? That seems a bit extreme and wasn't what you said, obviously.

But then if not every issue, why this one? It seems to me highly impractical for a vote, it's a pretty complex bill and far from most people's experience. I'd argue that there are some issues that work well for voting (death penalty, for instance, is something that every voter readily understands) and some that really don't (property tax limitations are an obvious example).

barfo

 

[MARIS61]

Fake News.

The ONLY threat cited is the threat by Brown to deprive GOP Reps of their liberty by using the disgraced, politically-corrupted OSP to circumvent the legally-required vote on what is Oregon's most massive tax increase in thee history of the state.

The "threat" to show up and peacefully assemble in protest with signs is not a threat to anyone. The lying OSP has not provided any evidence of any threat and is deliberately interfering with conservative's right to protest by scaring people away from hearing their peaceful message.

Brown runs the most corrupt government Oregon has ever had, with literally no ethics oversight at all.

https://www.cheatsheet.com/culture/15-states-ranked-the-most-corrupt-in-america-for-2017.html/

 

[riverman]

Fake News.

If you're going to put this headline to your post...you should really bold it at least...I'm not a fan of parts of this bill from what I've read so far but the conduct of the GOP voters walking out is just my tax dollars taking an unpaid vacation on my dime.....they might all be your buddies but they are not conducting themselves as an elected official is required to. For the record...I can't stand Kate Brown and don't think Oregonian govt has been healthy for a long time but that has little to do with this situation....I don't care if they are on your team...you are making weak excuses for bad behavior.

 

[barfo]

If you're going to put this headline to your post...you should really bold it at least...

Or maybe a colon instead of a period.

barfo

 

[riverman]

It would have been funnier if they tweeted a picture of that capitol currently instead of using a picture from earlier in the week.

At least this gave my neck of the woods a quiet Sunday morning for the first time in weeks since they're logging 60 acres down the mountain from us...and they are clear cutting by the way, which I didn't think you could do these days in Oregon there are now virtually bird wars in my old growth back acreage since so many lost their nests in such a short time....blue jays are like Vikings...moving in and stealing homes left and right..the bird wars sound like an atonal Shostakovich performance

 

[e_blazer]

Gonna have to disagree with you here.

I suppose if you think every issue should be decided directly by the voters, then we can just disband the senate and house? That seems a bit extreme and wasn't what you said, obviously.

But then if not every issue, why this one? It seems to me highly impractical for a vote, it's a pretty complex bill and far from most people's experience. I'd argue that there are some issues that work well for voting (death penalty, for instance, is something that every voter readily understands) and some that really don't (property tax limitations are an obvious example).

barfo

I’d say this subject deserves a vote for several reasons. First, there’s an issue of fair representation here. There’s a disproportionate impact on rural populations whose concerns are not proportionally given a voice in a legislature dominated by urban representatives from a single party. Second, there’s a huge question as to effectiveness vs cost of trying to deal with a global problem on a state basis. Third, there is a question as to whether legislators are really giving this a fair evaluation or if it’s simply a case of campaign platform policy making. In Oregon, wildfires produce more CO2 emissions than cars. How about aiming to reduce that by increasing funding for cleaning out the forest understory and improving fire response measures?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.livescience.com/1981-wildfires-release-cars.html

 

[e_blazer]

This has been making the rounds on Facebook and makes some interesting points:

Mary Boykin is former public union lobbyist with AFSCME.

MARY'S POST:
"Walkouts by the minority party at the Oregon Legislature are not new or partisan. The Democrats have walked out twice when they were in the minority.

In 2001 Governor Kate Brown led a 5 day walk out when she was the Minority Leader over a redistricting vote.

In 1995 10 Democrats walked out over a disagreement with Republicans over an award for Senator Frank Roberts.

1971 both parties staged walkouts one by Republicans concerned lowering the voting age to 18 and another by Democrats for reasons that remain unclear.

I remind people not because I have an opinion on the current situation but because walkouts are a common form of protest by a group with little or no power to be heard. Who do not have the power to direct the change desired.

Unions and workers have used this tool for decades to get their voices heard.

Maybe we have forgotten that this is a valuable tool for the minority to hold the majority accountable.

I support walkouts as a nonviolent form of protesting whether I support the underlying issues or not. They have a strong and important history.

1834 & 1836 Women factory workers in Lowell Massachusetts walked out for fair pay and standing up against oppression by their employers

-1912 the infamous Bread and Roses Walkout by women in the cotton weaving room in Lawrence. Massachusetts

-1965 walkout led by Martin Luther King by 600 protesters fighting for Civil Rights and many more throughout the 1960s

-1968 Chicano Walkout in East LA for education equity.
There are many examples throughout history and current times as well.

Historically walkouts have been staged as a non-violent means of expressing disapproval of actions by the majority over the concerns of the minority. It is often the only way for the minority voice to be heard.

One does not need to approve or agree with the reasons.

I for one will always support the rights of the minority to stand against or walk out on the majority as a way to protest peacefully. It has been used by both Democrats and Republicans, progressives and conservatives, workers and yes even employers but then we call it a lockout.

We should always support the right of the minority to stand against the potential tyranny of the majority...especially when it makes us uncomfortable or angry.

Tomorrow it could be one of you or us staging a Walk Out for some reason."

 

[riverman]

I’d say this subject deserves a vote for several reasons. First, there’s an issue of fair representation here. There’s a disproportionate impact on rural populations whose concerns are not proportionally given a voice in a legislature dominated by urban representatives from a single party. Second, there’s a huge question as to effectiveness vs cost of trying to deal with a global problem on a state basis. Third, there is a question as to whether legislators are really giving this a fair evaluation or if it’s simply a case of campaign platform policy making. In Oregon, wildfires produce more CO2 emissions than cars. How about aiming to reduce that by increasing funding for cleaning out the forest understory and improving fire response measures?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.livescience.com/1981-wildfires-release-cars.html

very valid points....harvesting timber is healthy if done with long term planning and selective culling..my most serious concerns are erosion, wind exposure and watershed protection...canopies keep fresh water flowing above ground....clear cutting, the water will tend to go underground....also wildlife needs sustainable foraging land within reasonable parameters...water is the best fire prevention...dry up spring fed streams and fire has just more fuel to spread..my son's best friend who is basically like family just graduated from fire fighting college in Bend....shoutout to him!

 

[barfo]

I’d say this subject deserves a vote for several reasons. First, there’s an issue of fair representation here. There’s a disproportionate impact on rural populations whose concerns are not proportionally given a voice in a legislature dominated by urban representatives from a single party.

But how much is the effect really disproportionate? What's the average distance driven by a rural person vs. someone in the metro area?

I don't have any data on that, but we can compare a very rural state, e.g. Wyoming, to an urban/suburban state, e.g. New Jersey. 2014 figures: WY: 16,410 miles/capita; NJ: 8,016; OR 10,234. That suggests that the difference between rural and urban is maybe a factor of 2 in number of miles driven.

Now, how much is the tax? if it is $0.25/gallon, and the car gets 25 mpg, then that's a penny per mile. At the rural 16,000 average miles/year, that's $160.

Is the difference between an urban person paying $80, and a rural person paying $160, per year, really that big a deal? Maybe it is, it's not my extra $80 after all.

Second, there’s a huge question as to effectiveness vs cost of trying to deal with a global problem on a state basis.

And the voters are well-qualified to weigh in on that tradeoff???

Third, there is a question as to whether legislators are really giving this a fair evaluation or if it’s simply a case of campaign platform policy making.

You could say that about literally every single piece of legislation.

In Oregon, wildfires produce more CO2 emissions than cars. How about aiming to reduce that by increasing funding for cleaning out the forest understory and improving fire response measures?

This is a good example of why we shouldn't have voters decide this. Part of the revenue raised in this measure is directed to "improving health and resilience of forests (thinning & prescribed fire)". You (a pretty well informed voter, in my impression) didn't know that, did you? Neither did I, until I looked it up just now.

barfo

 

[riverman]

But how much is the effect really disproportionate? What's the average distance driven by a rural person vs. someone in the metro area?

I don't have any data on that, but we can compare a very rural state, e.g. Wyoming, to an urban/suburban state, e.g. New Jersey. 2014 figures: WY: 16,410 miles/capita; NJ: 8,016; OR 10,234. That suggests that the difference between rural and urban is maybe a factor of 2 in number of miles driven.

Now, how much is the tax? if it is $0.25/gallon, and the car gets 25 mpg, then that's a penny per mile. At the rural 16,000 average miles/year, that's $160.

Is the difference between an urban person paying $80, and a rural person paying $160, per year, really that big a deal? Maybe it is, it's not my extra $80 after all.



And the voters are well-qualified to weigh in on that tradeoff???



You could say that about literally every single piece of legislation.



This is a good example of why we shouldn't have voters decide this. Part of the revenue raised in this measure is directed to "improving health and resilience of forests (thinning & prescribed fire)". You (a pretty well informed voter, in my impression) didn't know that, did you? Neither did I, until I looked it up just now.

barfo

And here I had to walk 15 miles in the snow to get to school! Those were not going to count against a gas tax! Now I live in the woods and drive a Prius....you guys should pay me! (I do have a 4 wheel drive Xterra that I take to town for milk when I want to look cool though....it's just a conversation piece really that helps with redneck bonding and black ice)

 

[Natebishop3]

Yeah, if it was Black people that comprised that armed militia...if things were the other way around, alot of you conservatives on here would be going off the deep end. As it is, it's ok I guess.

I really really really don't like this trend of equating all Republicans as racists. It's stereotyping and frankly it's pretty bigoted.

 

[barfo]

I really really really don't like this trend of equating all Republicans as racists. It's stereotyping and frankly it's pretty bigoted.

Absolutely agree.

It's only 80% or so, in reality.

barfo

 

[MARIS61]

Gonna have to disagree with you here.

I suppose if you think every issue should be decided directly by the voters, then we can just disband the senate and house? That seems a bit extreme and wasn't what you said, obviously.

But then if not every issue, why this one? It seems to me highly impractical for a vote, it's a pretty complex bill and far from most people's experience. I'd argue that there are some issues that work well for voting (death penalty, for instance, is something that every voter readily understands) and some that really don't (property tax limitations are an obvious example).

barfo

But how much is the effect really disproportionate? What's the average distance driven by a rural person vs. someone in the metro area?

I don't have any data on that, but we can compare a very rural state, e.g. Wyoming, to an urban/suburban state, e.g. New Jersey. 2014 figures: WY: 16,410 miles/capita; NJ: 8,016; OR 10,234. That suggests that the difference between rural and urban is maybe a factor of 2 in number of miles driven.

Now, how much is the tax? if it is $0.25/gallon, and the car gets 25 mpg, then that's a penny per mile. At the rural 16,000 average miles/year, that's $160.

Is the difference between an urban person paying $80, and a rural person paying $160, per year, really that big a deal? Maybe it is, it's not my extra $80 after all.

This is a good example of why we shouldn't have voters decide this. Part of the revenue raised in this measure is directed to "improving health and resilience of forests (thinning & prescribed fire)". You (a pretty well informed voter, in my impression) didn't know that, did you? Neither did I, until I looked it up just now.

barfo

Maybe you urbanites are unable to understand the bill, but it's a fairly clear-cut money-grab for a few unprofitable industries that Dem donors have invested heavily in. Anyone with a Real 6th-grade education sees it for what it is.

It is required by Oregon law to send any bill to the voters that increases taxes, which this clearly does.

I'm happy for you that you are rich but to an average rural Oregonian $160 stolen by Dems means pulling their infected molar themselves with pliers, or telling their son he can't play in Little League this year.

 

[barfo]

Maybe you urbanites are unable to understand the bill, but it's a fairly clear-cut money-grab for a few unprofitable industries that Dem donors have invested heavily in. Anyone with a Real 6th-grade education sees it for what it is.

That's one way to look at it. Another would be that it is making polluters pay a portion of the cost of the damage they do.

It is required by Oregon law to send any bill to the voters that increases taxes, which this clearly does.

That's actually a plausible argument.

I'm happy for you that you are rich

Thanks!

but to an average rural Oregonian $160 stolen by Dems means pulling their infected molar themselves with pliers, or telling their son he can't play in Little League this year.

Must really suck to be a rural Oregonian. Maybe you should open a Pliers-R-Us store, sounds like there is high demand for them.

barfo

 

[Chris Craig]

I really really really don't like this trend of equating all Republicans as racists. It's stereotyping and frankly it's pretty bigoted.

I never used the word racist

 

[jonnyboy]

Yesterday on the news I saw that the governor was ordering police to ‘round up’ Republican senators to force them to vote on a bill they walked out of.

I really really really don't like this trend of equating all Republicans as racists. It's stereotyping and frankly it's pretty bigoted.

its such a dumb and unoriginal thought, and it gets brought up by both sides every time anything political happens. “Could you imagine if they were (insert race/color/gender/sexual orientation here)?”
We could imagine a lot of things. Let’s just stick to the subject at hand without pondering hypotheticals.

 

[barfo]

We could imagine a lot of things. Let’s just stick to the subject at hand without pondering hypotheticals.

Hey, let's not be hypotheticaphobic.

barfo

 

[LameR]

This is dumb.

 

[jonnyboy]

Hey, let's not be hypotheticaphobic.

barfo

I actually suffer from hyperbolephobia, a rare condition, which causes me to bail on forum discussions without warning.

 

[CupWizier]

Some of the members of the militias say senators personally called and asked for their help. Now, of course the republican senators won't admit to it pubicly. They would lose their jobs and be thrown in the hoosegow.

Did you see the one asshole senator that was in hiding and when he got word that state police were going to go find the senators and bring them back to do their job and said they better come heavily armed as he has plenty of guns and ammo and would kill anyone trying to bring him in. That idiot needs to be removed immediately.