Yahoo Sports - NBA age minimum again

[Nate Dogg]

This time they interview NBA analysis Kenny Smith.

The NBA has discussed raising its age minimum. With one-and-done rookies like Derrick Rose contributing, is that wise?

http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/rog...ar=no,directories=no,status=no,menubar=no'));
I agree with Kenny on one point that he makes.
I think 4 year colleges should make an incoming player have an agreement that they must stay at that school for at least two years. There have been tons of high school busts that have entered into the NBA.
Kenny mentioned.
Omar Cooks: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omar_Cook

 

[Master Shake]

Horrible idea. They can make their own choices. A minimum of 1 year at college is enough I think. They can continue to study if they so chose.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

I'd expect more HS-ers to go straight to Europe. The Brandon Jennings rout.

 

[J_Ray]

I'd expect more HS-ers to go straight to Europe. The Brandon Jennings rout.

The only ones I see going overseas are the ones that can't get eligible or the big head arrogant players.

 

[Master Shake]

The only ones I see going overseas are the ones that can't get eligible or the big head arrogant players.

Didn't BJ only go to the Euro league cause he couldn't even get in to College?

 

[La Bomba]

Didn't BJ only go to the Euro league cause he couldn't even get in to College?

Correct, ACT's didn't qualify.

I want a two year rule simply because all the one and done's Memphis gets would have to stay another year. Imagine a Sophomore Derrick Rose.

 

[J_Ray]

To tell the truth, I would like the NBA to do something similar to to the NFL or MLB, where players can't declare for draft until 3 years after they graduated from HS. This would weed out a lot of undetermined players, and it would also help these college kids mature before they get into the league since the NBA is a business. Another factor is their body will be more ready to come into the NBA and it's vigorous schedule.

 

[Денг Гордон]

I'm waiting for the first player to forgo their senior season of high school to play overseas to come out for the NBA draft at 18.

This is dumb though. You're going to have to start paying the college athletes if you are going to force them to stay this long.

 

[J_Ray]

This is dumb though. You're going to have to start paying the college athletes if you are going to force them to stay this long.

They're getting free education to play basketball, I have to pay 10k a year to go to college, so they can't start that argument.

 

[handiman]

The flipside to the argument, to me, is look at the superstars of the league today... Most of them are either straight from HS (Kobe, LeBron, Garnett, McGrady, etc.) or only played a year or two of college ball. The 3-4 year college guy (i.e. Duncan, Roy) is a rarity among top level players.

Should the people that are ready to make the jump be punished on behalf of those that aren't?

 

[Nate Dogg]

Yes, K.Smith mentioned that to as well about those players (KG, Kobe, etc). Those guys are like a penny in a haystack every few drafts. Perhaps the NBA union and stern should come out with a new rookie clause contract for players that think they should belong in the league this early.

 

[BasX]

For every KG, there is a Robert Swift.

 

[mook]

They should allow only one person per draft to come straight out of high school or with one year of college. If you enter the draft and aren't the first high schooler/college freshman picked, you have to wait until you are two years removed from high school.

Call it the LeBron James rule, because if you are a can't miss stud like LeBron, why in hell would the NBA want to make fans wait for you? But if you are a Travis Outlaw and need a few years of seasoning, you go to college or overseas.

 

[rocketeer]

This time they interview NBA analysis Kenny Smith.

http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/rog...ar=no,directories=no,status=no,menubar=no'));
I agree with Kenny on one point that he makes.
I think 4 year colleges should make an incoming player have an agreement that they must stay at that school for at least two years. There have been tons of high school busts that have entered into the NBA.
Kenny mentioned.
Omar Cooks: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omar_Cook

there have been even more busts who have gone to college for 2+ years.

 

[rocketeer]

For every KG, there is a Robert Swift.

that's not true and even if it was, having one star for every one bust would be way better than the star to bust ratio for players going to college.

 

[rocketeer]

They should allow only one person per draft to come straight out of high school or with one year of college. If you enter the draft and aren't the first high schooler/college freshman picked, you have to wait until you are two years removed from high school.

Call it the LeBron James rule, because if you are a can't miss stud like LeBron, why in hell would the NBA want to make fans wait for you? But if you are a Travis Outlaw and need a few years of seasoning, you go to college or overseas.

one isn't enough. just think about lebron's year. carmelo would be forced to stay in school for an extra year. why? or last year with rose, mayo, love, beasley, and gordon contributing immediately. i'd say at least put the limit at 5 players per year if it includes both first year guys and high school guys. if it's just high school putting the limit at 3 might be enough to get all of the nba ready talent per year.

but what they really should do is just get rid of the rule all together. players should be able to enter the draft out of high school. gms just have to be smart enough to stay away from the bad players. no reason to protect bad gms from themselves.

 

[J_Ray]

one isn't enough. just think about lebron's year. carmelo would be forced to stay in school for an extra year. why? or last year with rose, mayo, love, beasley, and gordon contributing immediately. i'd say at least put the limit at 5 players per year if it includes both first year guys and high school guys. if it's just high school putting the limit at 3 might be enough to get all of the nba ready talent per year.

but what they really should do is just get rid of the rule all together. players should be able to enter the draft out of high school. gms just have to be smart enough to stay away from the bad players. no reason to protect bad gms from themselves.

I don't think they would be able to legally put a limit on hour many can enter/be drafted w/o having legal issues. I like the rule now rather than having guys that can't get academically eligible entering the draft ala Ricky Sanchez. The rule wasn't intended for protecting GM's but to force the players go to college and help their development not only as a basketball player, but to let their mind & body grow.

 

[rocketeer]

I don't think they would be able to legally put a limit on hour many can enter/be drafted w/o having legal issues. I like the rule now rather than having guys that can't get academically eligible entering the draft ala Ricky Sanchez. The rule wasn't intended for protecting GM's but to force the players go to college and help their development not only as a basketball player, but to let their mind & body grow.

that's bullshit. the rule was made because gms couldn't stop themselves from wasting good picks on shitty players because they'd fall in love with their "potential".

players don't develop better in college than they do in the nba. they have much more time playing basketball and being coached when they are actually pros than when they are in college and have all kinds of restrictions on things.

 

[Da_O]

The argument of whether they shouldn't be forced another year because they should be able to choose is ridiculous. The NBA will decide. The players have no say in it. The discussion is, is it worth it to withhold these kids for one more year. I absolutely, disagree that it would.

One year is ample enough time to see if a kid is ready to play in the NBA. The only way to get better is to play with better competition(i.e. the NBA). All the supposed "fundamentals" you can learn in college, you can also learn in the pro's. Since the one and done deal has been in place, prospects that were once considered top 5 picks, some are falling into the later rounds. Guys like Donte Green, DeAndre Jordan, and even BJ Mullens. That one year allowed scouts to determine that these kids weren't NBA ready when instead they would have for sure gone lottery had they came out of high school, and some poor, unexpecting NBA team would have gotten robbed.

One year is enough.

 

[rocketeer]

The argument of whether they shouldn't be forced another year because they should be able to choose is ridiculous. The NBA will decide. The players have no say in it. The discussion is, is it worth it to withhold these kids for one more year. I absolutely, disagree that it would.

One year is ample enough time to see if a kid is ready to play in the NBA. The only way to get better is to play with better competition(i.e. the NBA). All the supposed "fundamentals" you can learn in college, you can also learn in the pro's. Since the one and done deal has been in place, prospects that were once considered top 5 picks, some are falling into the later rounds. Guys like Donte Green, DeAndre Jordan, and even BJ Mullens. That one year allowed scouts to determine that these kids weren't NBA ready when instead they would have for sure gone lottery had they came out of high school, and some poor, unexpecting NBA team would have gotten robbed.

One year is enough.

what is ridiculous is that people feel the nba is correct in not allowing people to come straight from high school and that people even support adding a 2nd year. it's crazy.

if some poor, unexpecting nba team takes a shitty player, that's there fault. no one forced them to do it. it doesn't matter if the guy is a college senior or straight from high school. teams have enough time to scout those players in high school and do scout them in high school. if they don't trust their scouts, then they probably need to find some new ones.

the argument that players who go to college are better than ones who go straight from high school is just ridiculous. try reading this article: http://www.realgm.com/src_feature_article/165/20080409/a_76_percent_success_rate_not_enough/

 

[Da_O]

what is ridiculous is that people feel the nba is correct in not allowing people to come straight from high school and that people even support adding a 2nd year. it's crazy.

if some poor, unexpecting nba team takes a shitty player, that's there fault. no one forced them to do it. it doesn't matter if the guy is a college senior or straight from high school. teams have enough time to scout those players in high school and do scout them in high school. if they don't trust their scouts, then they probably need to find some new ones.

the argument that players who go to college are better than ones who go straight from high school is just ridiculous. try reading this article: http://www.realgm.com/src_feature_article/165/20080409/a_76_percent_success_rate_not_enough/

Well the reason, I like the one and done deal, is that it showcases a guys talent's against tougher competition. Guys like Mullens and DeAndre Jordan were considered surefire lottery picks. It's hard to gauge how good a player is going to be after playing against high school competition and then to the NBA.c So the one year of college gives them some extra information that they otherwise wouldn't have had. Anymore than one year IMO would just be redundant and frivolous. One year is more than enough time to ascertain the scouting needed. One year in college is nothing more than a stop-gap.

Now for those college fans that hate seeing their best players go after one year, are the ones supporting the extra year in college.

 

[rocketeer]

Well the reason, I like the one and done deal, is that it showcases a guys talent's against tougher competition. Guys like Mullens and DeAndre Jordan were considered surefire lottery picks. It's hard to gauge how good a player is going to be after playing against high school competition and then to the NBA.c So the one year of college gives them some extra information that they otherwise wouldn't have had. Anymore than one year IMO would just be redundant and frivolous. One year is more than enough time to ascertain the scouting needed. One year in college is nothing more than a stop-gap.

Now for those college fans that hate seeing their best players go after one year, are the ones supporting the extra year in college.

and i say that even one year is too much, but two years would be even more ridiculous. if i'm a gm or scout and i couldn't tell after deandre jordan's senior year of high school that he had no basketball skills, i don't deserve to have a job.

 

[Da_O]

and i say that even one year is too much, but two years would be even more ridiculous. if i'm a gm or scout and i couldn't tell after deandre jordan's senior year of high school that he had no basketball skills, i don't deserve to have a job.

I agree with you on the two years, but when it comes to scouting high school prospects, the players that are slated to be up and coming lottery picks, are just so much more physically gifted than other HS'ers. They end up standing out more than this guy does. They are so dominant that the NBA scouts really have no gauge other than their potential. One year, has shown how these HS'ers do against higher level competition. It does a better job of weeding out the pretenders from the contenders so to speak.

 

[Nate Dogg]

The other hidden factor that we don't see, is that these HS players think that "they are the game" and are envisioning the NBA lifestyle and minimum salary for rookies. That $$ amount in the first year in the NBA is insane for them (for rookies). I personally would like NBA players to have at least 2 years of college experience or the exception of one top HS player that must be approved by the NBA or NBA coaches.. Look how many busts we have had over the years.
However I feel bad that 3 years in college for Taurean Green didn't make the NBA and he had to play abroad.

 

[Da_O]

The other hidden factor that we don't see, is that these HS players think that "they are the game" and are envisioning the NBA lifestyle and minimum salary for rookies. That $$ amount in the first year in the NBA is insane for them (for rookies). I personally would like NBA players to have at least 2 years of college experience or the exception of one top HS player that must be approved by the NBA or NBA coaches.. Look how many busts we have had over the years.
However I feel bad that 3 years in college for Taurean Green didn't make the NBA and he had to play abroad.

No matter how long you hold them back for, lets say two, three, or four years, there are always going to be players that don't work out. The one year is only meant to sift through the HS'ers that aren't ready for the NBA.

 

[mook]

The reason they put the age limit in isn't to protect GM's from themselves. It isn't to punish high school kids. It isn't even really to protect the jobs of veteran players who were getting crowded out.

The real purpose has been to raise the overall level of competitiveness of the NBA, to make it more entertaining. Teams were letting go experienced guys like Stacey Augmon to take five year flyers on guys like Travis Outlaw. That was dragging down the overall level of quality of the league.

The NBA realized that NBA teams shouldn't be lowering their current ability to compete by gambling on the potential of high school players. Let those players develop outside of the NBA system where they can be more fairly evaluated (as Da O points out) before being drafted.

Is it unfair to the high school kid? Yeah. But the NBA doesn't exist to keep high school basketball players paid. It exists to exhibit the highest level of basketball competition on the planet. The current age restriction certainly helps to that end.

Would adding a second year after high school help raise the overall competitiveness of the NBA even more? Probably some, but not nearly as much as the first year did.

 

[BasX]

I don`t care either way, just they need to stick to a rule. If it`s one, leave it, if it`s 0, leave it. Don`t reconsider it all the time.

 

[mook]

I don`t care either way, just they need to stick to a rule. If it`s one, leave it, if it`s 0, leave it. Don`t reconsider it all the time.

I'm for consistency, but I don't really see the harm in revisiting the rule. Whether you are talking about an organization, a company, or just your own life, it's always a good idea to look back on recent decisions and see if there's a better way to do it.

My wife and I argue all the time over this idea. I tend to pick apart decisions before and after the fact. She's much more cut-and-dry decisive. I argue that she's stubborn, I'm all about continual improvement. She argues that she's consistent and I'm indecisive.

 

[BasX]

EDIT: Nevermind.

 

[Денг Гордон]

Some top prospect needs to forgo his senior season to play overseas and then enter the NBA draft at 18, and start a trend of wrecking the system.

Then the NBA will have created high school dropouts with their rule!