Yankees and Brian McCann closing in on Contract...

[vette322]

Montero, Sanchez, Romine, Murphy. The alleged strength of the Yankee farm system was supposed to be Catcher, but this deal (years and $$$) pretty much means that theory is gone. Sad, that they had these 4 studs, and none of them will turn out. If there was one position that you would have hoped they would not have had to go outside and overspend, it was catcher, but oh well...

Is he an improvement - sure, but when the competition is Chris Stewart, how can anyone not be an improvement. But like most big ticket FA's - just who were the Yankees bidding against, and what was his next best offer. At least with Texeira - we knew the Yankees 8yr/$180M deal beat the Red Sox 8yr/$170M - but who had the 5yr/$80M deal for McCann that forced the Yankees to go this high?

 

[Majorball]

OK, All I know is that we have added a 7 time All Star and 5 time Silver Slugger winner to our roster and he is 30 years old. All I know is no more Stewart. All I know is that we are better at the following positions going into next year.

C +
1B +
2b TBA
SS +
3B TBA
DH TBA
LF =
CF =
RF TBA

 

[vette322]

OK, All I know is that we have added a 7 time All Star and 5 time Silver Slugger winner to our roster and he is 30 years old. All I know is no more Stewart. All I know is that we are better at the following positions going into next year.

C +
1B +
2b TBA
SS +
3B TBA
DH TBA
LF =
CF =
RF TBA

Careful - Chris Stewart is liked by some here. But yes MB - it is an improvement, but I think it's too many years and too many $$$, and I know you think all FA deals end up that way - but they don't. This deal is more palatable if the McCann is one of the few missing pieces to a team almost there, but it is not the type of deal that team with as many holes as the Yankees have needs to make IMO. It's why AJ last year for 1yr/$8M, and perhaps this year for 1yr/$11M makes more sense.

 

[Majorball]

Careful - Chris Stewart is liked by some here. But yes MB - it is an improvement, but I think it's too many years and too many $$$, and I know you think all FA deals end up that way - but they don't. This deal is more palatable if the McCann is one of the few missing pieces to a team almost there, but it is not the type of deal that team with as many holes as the Yankees have needs to make IMO. It's why AJ last year for 1yr/$8M, and perhaps this year for 1yr/$11M makes more sense.[/QUOTE

I will not argue that the number of years are concerning. I looked at Posada's numbers from age 30 to 36. An I feel that McCann can duplicate those. The No trade clause is just extortion by players and agents to get them to wave and get more money. I can't argue that last year I was all for AJ for one or 2 years and save the draft choice. That was based on the hope that Sanchez becomes something special ( a MLB caliber catcher). I think we have seen this script before, over the years, how do the Yankees cover mistakes? With money, and now that they have essentially over paid for McCann at least in years, get ready for what happens next. Don't be surprise that Beltran and Ellsbury fall very soon to the Yankees. They aren't done and getting McCann, just sends up the flags that the 189 dream is over because they feel they will prevail with Arod after last week.

 

[yankeesince59]

...big difference in making a simple honest mistake and "making things up". I guess I was thinking of Atlanta's talk of moving him to 1B, I don't know...sue me.

...and NO ONE here has EVER said they "liked" Chris Stewart as a starting catcher...and claiming that people said so is not a "mistake", it's a flat out predetermined lie. And assuming there was no other offer to McCann isn't "laughable"?...uhhh, OK



...But I understand how some people's reading comprehension predictably works because in their world if someone says "Stewart is a better overall option than Romine" it somehow magically translates to "I like him and I think Stewart is a very good catcher"...just like refusing to blindly bash and blame Cashman daily for all of the Yanx woes somehow translates into "I think Cashman is a very good GM" ...yeah, very compelling, nothing like a good fiction story...but I'm the one "making things up?

 

[Yankeefan5545]

I think Mc Cann to the Yankees is huge, now then Mr. Stewart congratulation on your new position as Clubhouse man.

 

[JeterRules20]

Why are people questioning this signing. Getting McCann is HUGE for the Yankees. Now I can't wait to see what is next. Do they lock up Cano or go after Ellsbury and trade Gardner. What about 3rd base? Do they let Nunez take over there? The next few weeks or months will be interesting to say the least. I don't see them waiting around.

 

[yankeesince59]

Why are people questioning this signing. Getting McCann is HUGE for the Yankees. Now I can't wait to see what is next. Do they lock up Cano or go after Ellsbury and trade Gardner. What about 3rd base? Do they let Nunez take over there? The next few weeks or months will be interesting to say the least. I don't see them waiting around.

...why?...because sadly there are people out there who are never happy with anything the Yanx do and would rather find fault and point fingers at every opportunity.

 

[BigDaddyAl1973]

...big difference in making a simple honest mistake and "making things up". I guess I was thinking of Atlanta's talk of moving him to 1B, I don't know...sue me.

...and NO ONE here has EVER said they "liked" Chris Stewart as a starting catcher...and claiming that people said so is not a "mistake", it's a flat out predetermined lie. And assuming there was no other offer to McCann isn't "laughable"?...uhhh, OK



...But I understand how some people's reading comprehension predictably works because in their world if someone says "Stewart is a better overall option than Romine" it somehow magically translates to "I like him and I think Stewart is a very good catcher"...just like refusing to blindly bash and blame Cashman daily for all of the Yanx woes somehow translates into "I think Cashman is a very good GM" ...yeah, very compelling, nothing like a good fiction story...but I'm the one "making things up?

Is that like me saying...I like Vanilla....this must mean that I also said "GOD DAM CHOCOLATE AND WHO THE FUCK DOES STRAWBERRY THINK IT IS?" ....sorry just popped into my mind and i had to share

 

[BigDaddyAl1973]

overall it is something that had to be done. we needed an offensive upgrade at the position. he was the best out there..and one of the best in today's game. that doesnt mean we have to get rid of Sanchez, all it does is allows him time to move through the system. if he develops the way the organization thought and hopes...well then we have a very nice chip on our hands to improve another hole. Sanchez was not going to start this year and perhaps not even next year, so this move doesnt crush his dreams. Romaine on the other hand...well..that is another story

 

[yankeesince59]

Is that like me saying...I like Vanilla....this must mean that I also said "GOD DAM CHOCOLATE AND WHO THE FUCK DOES STRAWBERRY THINK IT IS?" ....sorry just popped into my mind and i had to share

...yup, that's pretty much sums it up, Al.

 

[Majorball]

I personally am so sick of the "Monday Morning Quarterback" mentality in all of sports. I get that it's just human nature. The arguments by people like Vette and Yblue are that of an invested fan. I respect their opinions and many times share common ground on many subjects. So when I say I am tired of MMQ, it's not with others opinions of loyal invested fans, but with all the negativity that comes forth from the people who complain in order to complain. All the experts had McCann as the top free agent catcher on the market, and arguably one of the top 5 this year. Look, our team that we loved, just upgrade a position of need. It is significant. The Yankees most likely overspent and thank god they did. Unlike Jeffery Loria and the Marlins for example, that never keep their players or give one shit about the fan base. I would love to see all these loyal Yankee fans live with that type of ownership. I have changed my opinion over the last 24 hrs to believe that we are a 3.3 billion dollar business model, our economics allow for this. Will this be taught at Harvard Business School, No!. But this is our team, and thank God they filled a position of need with a 7 time all star and 5 time silver slugger winner. And now all I want for Christmas is 2 starters, 2 outfielders not named Wells and Ichiro, oh a 3B with a pulse, and a 200 million dollar 2B. And in the stocking stuffer, please add Joe Nathan. It's not like we just took on Prince Fielders contract....

 

[Yankeefan5545]

Glad to see the Yankees make that move, now tighten the line by resigning Cano at reasonable rates and signing Choo. That would be a very strong middle. Mc Cann is going to be a gutsy "holler guy" which we've not really see since Paul O'Neil retired.

 

[yankeesince59]

So when I say I am tired of MMQ, it's not with others opinions of loyal invested fans, but with all the negativity that comes forth from the people who complain in order to complain.

...spot on.

 

[yankeesince59]

..and oh; http://roxpile.com/2013/11/23/colorado-rockies-made-late-run-brian-mccann/

 

[Majorball]

..and oh; http://roxpile.com/2013/11/23/colorado-rockies-made-late-run-brian-mccann/

And all the naysayers will say, "they were never serious". Or the no trade clause. It's just simple. You pay premium prices in FA.

 

[yankeesince59]

...I will never understand the mentality of people who constantly downplay/bash virtually everything the Yanx do and seldom, if ever, recognize and acknowledge the positive side of any transaction. If a person/s seemingly predetermined mindset is to only see the bad side of things at every avenue while at the same time posing as someone who pretends to know more about the inter-workings of a Baseball franchise than management itself, well, that's all they'll ever see. These types of people must be an absolute bundle of joy to be around in the real world.

 

[RustySpan]

The other thing this move does is give the Yankees some solid chips to move, now that McCann is here for the next 6 years they have no reason to keep Sanchez, Murphy, O'Brien.. they can and should trade all three now for as much as they can, and get some good players back.

 

[vette322]

... These types of people must be an absolute bundle of joy to be around in the real world.

LOL! Of all the people to get on a soapbox and preach about being positive and then turn around and bash anyone who questions moves. You have to be kidding with that 'bundle of joy comment? Are you just a 'bundle of joy' when you spend even more time bashing players, owners, and other posters? Again - you have to be kidding trying to play this 'glass half full BS', You'd pick a fight with a squashed bug on a windshield..

No one said McCann won't help, but many have questioned the years/$$$ seeing that the Yankees had 5 catchers in their system (Montero, Sanchez, Murphy, Romine, Cervelli) over the last few years, and that NONE of them developed to take the job. Do you see the problem with having to go outside and overpay for a catcher, when supposedly the strength of the minor league system was catching? How about AJ for a year at a time, until one of these guys rises up? But, if they think these guys can't develop further- then that's another problem with how this team develops players. These are fair questions - sorry you want to make it sound like you are all positive. Not buying it - you have no high ground here.

 

[Majorball]

LOL! Of all the people to get on a soapbox and preach about being positive and then turn around and bash anyone who questions moves. You have to be kidding with that 'bundle of joy comment? Are you just a 'bundle of joy' when you spend even more time bashing players, owners, and other posters? Again - you have to be kidding trying to play this 'glass half full BS', You'd pick a fight with a squashed bug on a windshield..

No one said McCann won't help, but many have questioned the years/$$$ seeing that the Yankees had 5 catchers in their system (Montero, Sanchez, Murphy, Romine, Cervelli) over the last few years, and that NONE of them developed to take the job. Do you see the problem with having to go outside and overpay for a catcher, when supposedly the strength of the minor league system was catching? How about AJ for a year at a time, until one of these guys rises up? But, if they think these guys can't develop further- then that's another problem with how this team develops players. These are fair questions - sorry you want to make it sound like you are all positive. Not buying it - you have no high ground here.

As I stated before, and I think we all agree across 2 boards, and that is until this organization can churn out quality position players and not just the occasional middle reliever than that is when the fan base can trust the FO when it says that the C position is one of strength. Otherwise pay the premium for positions of need. Name one highly skilled player who was ever a bargain in FA, where dollars, years, bonuses, and NTC were a good deal. I'm sure there are some but for every 1 there are 49 who aren't.

 

[vette322]

As I stated before, and I think we all agree across 2 boards, and that is until this organization can churn out quality position players and not just the occasional middle reliever than that is when the fan base can trust the FO when it says that the C position is one of strength. Otherwise pay the premium for positions of need. Name one highly skilled player who was ever a bargain in FA, where dollars, years, bonuses, and NTC were a good deal. I'm sure there are some but for every 1 there are 49 who aren't.

I know where you are coming from MB, and yes - there are a lot of bad contacts out there, meaning there is always at least 1 team (at times, it's the Yankees, but far more times other teams lately - see Angels) that can't help themselves. Perhaps I see it differently, knowing that many teams employ a 4-pronged strategy to build a roster: 1) Minor league system, 2) Trades, 3) FA, 4) Feeling Lucky DFAs. My problem is that the Yankees are too heavily slanted to '3' and '4', and have not been able to make '1' work, which in turn leads to not being able to participate in '2'. As such - the Yankees do more than their fair share of '3' which makes things worse, especially when the owners start talking about budgets, caps, luxury taxes, etc. And as we painfully saw in 2013 - far too much of '4', which really is done as a last resort by many teams, but might have been the most pronounced approach of all 4 options that the Yankees employed.

As for McCann - I think it's a need, but I think it's an overpay in years/$$$/NTC. As bad as many contracts are (Hamilton, Fielder, Arod, Pujols, CC - Cano will be next) - I understand why teams do them - they are paying for the premier talent in the game that is available. McCann does not fall into that category IMO, and while the $$$ is less - $17M/yr is excessive. Is it the worst contract in recent years - no - the worst contract in baseball (aside from Pujols, which is horrid, and some of those big deals for MVP types) is actually Crawford's. He got super star $$$, and is about as far away from that level as anyone. Makes the life line that the Dodgers threw the Red Sox all the more annoying when they agreed to take him. McCann will help, but I thought AJ for 2013 at $7.5M would also help, and perhaps AJ again in 2014 with a raise to maybe $10-$11M might be the answer. Given their history for having many long-term deals that are starting to hurt them productivity-wise, and the likelihood that they will have no choice in adding another one in Cano - I thought they wouldn't go this far on McCann.

 

[Majorball]

I know where you are coming from MB, and yes - there are a lot of bad contacts out there, meaning there is always at least 1 team (at times, it's the Yankees, but far more times other teams lately - see Angels) that can't help themselves. Perhaps I see it differently, knowing that many teams employ a 4-pronged strategy to build a roster: 1) Minor league system, 2) Trades, 3) FA, 4) Feeling Lucky DFAs. My problem is that the Yankees are too heavily slanted to '3' and '4', and have not been able to make '1' work, which in turn leads to not being able to participate in '2'. As such - the Yankees do more than their fair share of '3' which makes things worse, especially when the owners start talking about budgets, caps, luxury taxes, etc. And as we painfully saw in 2013 - far too much of '4', which really is done as a last resort by many teams, but might have been the most pronounced approach of all 4 options that the Yankees employed.

As for McCann - I think it's a need, but I think it's an overpay in years/$$$/NTC. As bad as many contracts are (Hamilton, Fielder, Arod, Pujols, CC - Cano will be next) - I understand why teams do them - they are paying for the premier talent in the game that is available. McCann does not fall into that category IMO, and while the $$$ is less - $17M/yr is excessive. Is it the worst contract in recent years - no - the worst contract in baseball (aside from Pujols, which is horrid, and some of those big deals for MVP types) is actually Crawford's. He got super star $$$, and is about as far away from that level as anyone. Makes the life line that the Dodgers threw the Red Sox all the more annoying when they agreed to take him. McCann will help, but I thought AJ for 2013 at $7.5M would also help, and perhaps AJ again in 2014 with a raise to maybe $10-$11M might be the answer. Given their history for having many long-term deals that are starting to hurt them productivity-wise, and the likelihood that they will have no choice in adding another one in Cano - I thought they wouldn't go this far on McCann.

I totally agree with the potential forecast of McCann's curve, but with the win now business model that the Yankees project it's basically the cost of doing business. Now the example you mentioned on a balance formula, if you will, for developing a MLB roster I think is spot on. Like your stock portfolio, it needs to be diversified. Which brings us back to the word accountability... which I know many of us posters share, and there is the rub. I feel that is why Hal has stepped up his visibility and involvement with the club this offseason.

 

[yankeesince59]

LOL! Of all the people to get on a soapbox and preach about being positive and then turn around and bash anyone who questions moves. You have to be kidding with that 'bundle of joy comment? Are you just a 'bundle of joy' when you spend even more time bashing players, owners, and other posters? Again - you have to be kidding trying to play this 'glass half full BS', You'd pick a fight with a squashed bug on a windshield..

No one said McCann won't help, but many have questioned the years/$$$ seeing that the Yankees had 5 catchers in their system (Montero, Sanchez, Murphy, Romine, Cervelli) over the last few years, and that NONE of them developed to take the job. Do you see the problem with having to go outside and overpay for a catcher, when supposedly the strength of the minor league system was catching? How about AJ for a year at a time, until one of these guys rises up? But, if they think these guys can't develop further- then that's another problem with how this team develops players. These are fair questions - sorry you want to make it sound like you are all positive. Not buying it - you have no high ground here.

...yes, I AM in fact a bundle of joy, and a great dancer, and a snappy dresser too, but I simply have a low tolerance for idiocy and for people who make shit up and flat out lie....and I will point it out every time...don't like it?...tough shit.

...simple question; would you rather spend time with people at work or leisure who generally have positive outlooks or people who do nothing but complain?

...and I see that your reading comprehension is still quite myopic and that you are still half way reading things and then changing them into something that was not said and instead, into something you alone formulated...at least you're consistent...try rereading what I actually said and maybe a little s l o w e r this time.

...I guess you are also claiming that you did not try to put a negative spin on the McCann signing by pointing to the notion that the Yanx were somehow bidding against themselves?...sorry, but if you'll read the link I posted above you'll see you once again jumped the gun before actually knowing the facts. And why is a NTC an issue and when has it been proven to be a problem in the past? And I suppose it would have been OK to allow Texas or even worse, Boston, to snap McCann up for one year less?...if that had happened the usual suspects would be lambasting Cashman for letting him get away.

...now scurry back to the other place and copy and paste quotes from here and talk some more smack...you have "no ground" at all here.

 

[cagedlion]

if yanks are going to compete, they must get QUALITY up the middle. McCann is a start.

 

[Majorball]

^^^^ The old ways still hold true, Defensively, he is no Bench, but he is a total upgrade over anything that has caught a game in pinstripes last year.

 

[vette322]

if yanks are going to compete, they must get QUALITY up the middle. McCann is a start.

So, if McCann at $100M with the additional year is a start, then Cano to play 2B at $200M+ is next, Ellsbury in CF for another $125M in CF, and then who replaces Jeter at SS and his $12M in 2015. All of a sudden, the Yankees become very strong up the middle, but at what price? The Yankees can obviously overpay in years and $$$ to fill any holes they want. If it's that easy, and if people are all for it - why do some of you waste your time whining about the bad deals this team has carrying around right now, but all of sudden sign-up for a guy like McCann for $100M? If you want to just have the team spend the $$$ - then just say you are for the open checkbook approach and go from there. Heck - seeing they can't develop anyone from the minor league system, seeing they can't make any trades because they have no one anyone would take - I'm all for it. $300M payroll sounds good to me - just admit it's the only way this team can do it and be done with it.

Some of you (not saying you cage, or MB, Hammer or some of the other good, "accountable" posters here) have drawn lines in the sand on Cano, but will some of you admit if the Yankees go beyond your line in the sand that it was still a 'good deal', or are just going to bobblehead up and down and go the 'whatever Cashman says' route.

 

[vette322]

...yes, I AM in fact a bundle of joy, and a great dancer, and a snappy dresser too, but I simply have a low tolerance for idiocy and for people who make shit up and flat out lie....and I will point it out every time...don't like it?...tough shit.

You're the biggest lying sack of shit on this board. You bash other posters for not liking the Yankees trading for Wells, trading for Pineda, giving CC another 1 year for $25M, giving McCann $100M, claiming Stewart was difference-maker (giving them the best chance to win) etc. and when these deals or circumstances don't work out (after Cashman usually says they were mistakes, therefore giving you permission to "change" your stance), you claim that you going on record and liking the deals was actually "not what you meant" and that someone was "lying" in saying you were for those deals.

Heck, no issue with anyone throwing out the possibility that McCann might be able to move to 1B, but you went further - eventhough he never played there, you claimed that he "played a pretty good 1B", making you look even more detached and unaware. Your problem is that you don't like it when someone calls you on your BS, and you're "that's not what I meant". In your own words - tough shit.

So maybe you're the one who needs to scurry along now...

 

[yankeesince59]

...show exactly where I lied....and I'll never post again.

...and PLEASE, for once, instead of dancing around the actual subject, be precise. Again, what exactly did I "lie" about?


...and if you will for once, take the time to actually read, you'll see that I have already admitted my mistake concerning McCann and his 1B experience...will you do the same?

...I NEVER EVER said Stewart was a "difference maker"...document that statement or continue to make shit up...can't do it, can you?

...I'm not "scurrying" anywhere...I'll be right here...please return when you can actually support your false claims for once.

 

[yankeesince59]

Some of you (not saying you cage, or MB, Hammer or some of the other good, "accountable" posters here) have drawn lines in the sand on Cano, but will some of you admit if the Yankees go beyond your line in the sand that it was still a 'good deal', or are just going to bobblehead up and down and go the 'whatever Cashman says' route.

...lmfao...keep sucking up...won't do you any good.

 

[Hammerojustice]

So, if McCann at $100M with the additional year is a start, then Cano to play 2B at $200M+ is next, Ellsbury in CF for another $125M in CF, and then who replaces Jeter at SS and his $12M in 2015. All of a sudden, the Yankees become very strong up the middle, but at what price? The Yankees can obviously overpay in years and $$$ to fill any holes they want. If it's that easy, and if people are all for it - why do some of you waste your time whining about the bad deals this team has carrying around right now, but all of sudden sign-up for a guy like McCann for $100M? If you want to just have the team spend the $$$ - then just say you are for the open checkbook approach and go from there. Heck - seeing they can't develop anyone from the minor league system, seeing they can't make any trades because they have no one anyone would take - I'm all for it. $300M payroll sounds good to me - just admit it's the only way this team can do it and be done with it.

Some of you (not saying you cage, or MB, Hammer or some of the other good, "accountable" posters here) have drawn lines in the sand on Cano, but will some of you admit if the Yankees go beyond your line in the sand that it was still a 'good deal', or are just going to bobblehead up and down and go the 'whatever Cashman says' route.

I will not. I will not believe that anything beyond 7 years is a good deal. Personally, I don't think it should go past 6, but still... Didn't like the long term deals with CC or A-Rod... for some reason, I didn't seem to have that issue with Tex, but I'm not liking it now... anyway, Cano shouldn't get more than 7