Yankees Rotation Troubles...

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BigDaddyAl1973 said:
So your saying as long as he plays in new york surrounded by talent he is a sure in with the hof...is that what your implying?

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...are you naturally obtuse, or is it an acquired trait?...now again, go back and reread the question....s l o w l y .
 
BigDaddyAl1973 said:
I guess this doesnt qualify as an answer to your question.

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...you're right, it doesn't qualify as an answer because that was not my question.

...here, I'll copy and paste the ACTUAL question for you again,...and try not to completely botch it this time.;


"Would Cano have been MORE assured of the HOF if he had remained in NY?"
 
BigDaddyAl1973 said:
The guy did everything one can do in ny. Won a championship. So he went for the money...you wouldnt? This thing about legacy...retired number monument... that's all bullshit. Its jealousy that is pouring out shouting how dare you walk away from new york. Every player should dream of being a Yankee. . Blah blah blah. Very few people. ..if not a handful, would turn down that deal...an additional 72 million. If you can honestly say you would. ..your a better person than me. So it brings me back to jealous hypocritical fans with the booing.

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Al, don't want to appear that we're ganging up on you but its not 72M or 70M, its 65M & again he didn't leave for the money. As was pointed out SEVERAL times the Yankees offered more per year then Seattle 25M to 24M, He left for the addition 3 years like he really expects to get better between the ages of 39-42.

And as far as HIM winning a championship, The Yankees won a championship which Cano was a MAJOR non factor. The point is that Cano did not think this thing through, not only was he NOT disrespected but he went to a team that doesn't have a snow balls chance in hell of winning a world series or even make a playoff appearance. With the Yankees he was a definite hall of famer, with Seattle his #s will suffer. But Al I am curious, do you think the Yankees disrespected him or was it just a really stupid thing to say? I'll wait.
 
yankeesince59 said:
...you're right, it doesn't qualify as an answer because that was not my question.

...here, I'll copy and paste the ACTUAL question for you again,...and try not to completely botch it this time.;


"Would Cano have been MORE assured of the HOF if he had remained in NY?"
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Ask don Mattingly that question....

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BigDaddyAl1973 said:
Ask don Mattingly that question....

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...you simply cannot stay on topic, can you?...I'm not asking Donnie, I'm asking you?

...what the hell does Mattingly have to do with this?...we're talking about the difference in hitting in a stacked line up in hitter friendly YS every year vs hitting in a weak line up and having to play at Safeco Field every year.
 
BigDaddyAl1973 said:
Ask don Mattingly that question....

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Mattingly never really had the supporting cast around him. And you seemed to have missed my post #35. I'm still waiting.
 
Rick2583 said:
Al, don't want to appear that we're ganging up on you but its not 72M or 70M, its 65M & again he didn't leave for the money. As was pointed out SEVERAL times the Yankees offered more per year then Seattle 25M to 24M, He left for the addition 3 years like he really expects to get better between the ages of 39-42.

And as far as HIM winning a championship, The Yankees won a championship which Cano was a MAJOR non factor. The point is that Cano did not think this thing through, not only was he NOT disrespected but he went to a team that doesn't have a snow balls chance in hell of winning a world series or even make a playoff appearance. With the Yankees he was a definite hall of famer, with Seattle his #s will suffer. But Al I am curious, do you think the Yankees disrespected him or was it just a really stupid thing to say? I'll wait.
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Rick2583 said:
Mattingly never really had the supporting cast around him. And you seemed to have missed my post #35. I'm still waiting.
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First off, sorry I didn't reply in a fast enough time frame, I was on my phone now im in the officer where it is a little easier to respond using a keyboard and not a cell phone.

Your numbers are off a little, the difference is that New York he would be taxed at over 7% of his income where the great state of Washington has zero income tax. So more money for Cano.

Also you make it seem that Cano was riding the coattails on the 2009 championship team. The guy batted 320 with 25 home runs, 85 rbi's and 103 runs scored in that championship season, I think he had a little something to do with winning the title that year? Wouldn't you agree? Don't make him out to be Jerry Hairston Jr on that team.
 
yankeesince59 said:
...you simply cannot stay on topic, can you?...I'm not asking Donnie, I'm asking you?

...what the hell does Mattingly have to do with this?...we're talking about the difference in hitting in a stacked line up in hitter friendly YS every year vs hitting in a weak line up and having to play at Safeco Field every year.
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For the third time...you are not assured of anything, since you like to play with words...does he have a better chance of compiling better stats with a stacked lineup? sure. Does that make him a better player? I guess if that is the case simply just play in Yankee Stadium, everyone would be a HOF'er.

Not every team's fan base boos a returning player...Red Sox fans cheered Wade Boggs when he came back as a Yankee.
 
Rick2583 said:
Mattingly never really had the supporting cast around him. And you seemed to have missed my post #35. I'm still waiting.
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I mentioned Don Mattingly as a perfect example of you can not assume anything. And you are a bit wrong with him not being around a supporting cast, the mid 80's Yankee lineup was stacked.
 
BigDaddyAl1973 said:
Your numbers are off a little, the difference is that New York he would be taxed at over 7% of his income where the great state of Washington has zero income tax. So more money for Cano.

...I really wish you and others would just stop bringing up the same ole lame state income tax angge as a reason for Cano going to Seattle...there are ways around the NY tax issue...but you already knew that, right?

Also you make it seem that Cano was riding the coattails on the 2009 championship team. The guy batted 320 with 25 home runs, 85 rbi's and 103 runs scored in that championship season, I think he had a little something to do with winning the title that year? Wouldn't you agree? Don't make him out to be Jerry Hairston Jr on that team.
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...nobody, and I mean NOBODY said he didn't have anything to do with the 2009 championship...nice straw man.
 
yankeesince59 said:
...you're right, it doesn't qualify as an answer because that was not my question.

...here, I'll copy and paste the ACTUAL question for you again,...and try not to completely botch it this time.;


"Would Cano have been MORE assured of the HOF if he had remained in NY?"
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I guess Seattle should just close up shop, don't bring up any rookies with talent, never sign another player in free agency. Trade away King Felix.....yeah they should just dissolve the team.
Here we are talking about a Yankee team that has a barren farm system, and younger players are being kept their teams by signing them long term before they get to free agents.

You want to know why he was disrespected, where other teams will sign their players long term the Yankees were very happy to keep cano's salary as low as possible while he was out performing other 2nd basement in the majors. It is a business and the Yankees made it a business for the first 7 plus seasons, Cano made it a business, and a smart business decision at that, this past off season. So overpay for Ellsbury and hope he plays 95% of the games for that contract.
 
BigDaddyAl1973 said:
For the third time...you are not assured of anything, since you like to play with words...does he have a better chance of compiling better stats with a stacked lineup? sure. Does that make him a better player? I guess if that is the case simply just play in Yankee Stadium, everyone would be a HOF'er.

Not every team's fan base boos a returning player...Red Sox fans cheered Wade Boggs when he came back as a Yankee.
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...you could have stopped right there...and for the third time, I asked you if he was "MORE ASSURED" of getting into the HOF by playing in NY instead of Seattle.....but you FINALLY answered the question...you don't think compiling better stats are important in HOF voters' minds?
...how did I play with words?...on the contrary, I have been VERY clear on every point.


...and Wade fucking Boggs?...again, more irrelevancies...Mattingly and Boggs are no way similar to Cano's saga.
 
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yankeesince59 said:
...I'm really surprised that your fingers don't simply explode when you type...Robbie "won a championship"?...really?...love people who give individuals credit for TEAM accomplishments...lemme guess, you're referring to the 2009 post season...let's review;

ALDS .167 .167 .167 .333
ALCS .261 .414 .478 .892
WS-- .136 .130 .136 .267

...but yeah, Robbie "won a championship"...lmao.


...and this outpouring of "jealously" is only apparent in your alternate universe...why should Yankee fans be "jealous"?...you seem you be using the wrong terminology here...and I'm still waiting for you to explain how the Yankees "disrespected" Cano.
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Did you are did you not post this?
So I guess the 162 games before the post season means shit. He is equal to Jerry Harriston Jr in your eyes right?
 
yankeesince59 said:
...you could have stopped right there...and for the third time, I asked you if he was "MORE ASSURED" of getting into the HOF by playing in NY instead of Seattle.....but you FINALLY answered the question...you don't think compiling better stats are important in HOF voters' minds?
...how did I play with words?...on the contrary, I have been VERY clear on every point.


...and Wade fucking Boggs?...again, more irrelevancies...Mattingly and Boggs are no way similar to Cano's saga.
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Wow...serious...Boggs gets a standing O coming back as a Yankee, showing there is other teams that can put aside the laundry and show respect for the player who played for a team you cheered for.

I guess I am one of a limited amount of people who will stand up and show respect for a player who put up a lot of great numbers as a Yankee.
I am one of those people who simply does not boo the other players, I rather spend my energy on supporting my team.

To each his/her own.
 
BigDaddyAl1973 said:
I guess Seattle should just close up shop, don't bring up any rookies with talent, never sign another player in free agency. Trade away King Felix.....yeah they should just dissolve the team.
Here we are talking about a Yankee team that has a barren farm system, and younger players are being kept their teams by signing them long term before they get to free agents.

You want to know why he was disrespected, where other teams will sign their players long term the Yankees were very happy to keep cano's salary as low as possible while he was out performing other 2nd basement in the majors. It is a business and the Yankees made it a business for the first 7 plus seasons, Cano made it a business, and a smart business decision at that, this past off season. So overpay for Ellsbury and hope he plays 95% of the games for that contract.
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...what the hell are you babbling about now?...we're not debating Seattle business strategy.

...again, try to stay on topic...if you can't do that, (and I think you have proven that you cannot) we have nothing further to discuss.
 
BigDaddyAl1973 said:
Wow...serious...Boggs gets a standing O coming back as a Yankee, showing there is other teams that can put aside the laundry and show respect for the player who played for a team you cheered for.

I guess I am one of a limited amount of people who will stand up and show respect for a player who put up a lot of great numbers as a Yankee.
I am one of those people who simply does not boo the other players, I rather spend my energy on supporting my team.

To each his/her own.
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...you can take your holier than thou "limited amount of people" reference and stick it in your ear.

...one more time, Boggs has nothing to do with this, neither does Boston. Boggs was 35 years old and near the end of his career when he came to NY. The Boston fans wanted him to stay but management evidently did not...and you are trying to compare Boggs/Mattingly to Cano's situation?

...let's end this;

1...did the Yankees "disrespect" Cano, yes or no?

2...did Cano turn down 7 years/$175 Mil from the Yanx than for no other reason than more money from Seattle?...yes or no?
 
yankeesince59 said:
...what the hell are you babbling about now?...we're not debating Seattle business strategy.

...again, try to stay on topic...if you can't do that, (and I think you have proven that you cannot) we have nothing further to discuss.
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you are something I tell you...

you stated that Cano would have a better chance with a stacked Yankee lineup....last year's team was truly a stacked lineup, where is the assurance that the future it would be that way?
you stated that Cano would have a better chance at the HOF being in Yankee Stadium and a stacked lineup...there have been plenty of players who earn the HOF without playing with the short porch in right field and having talent surrounding them.

Bottom line is, this is a business decision, and the decision for once did not go the Yankee way so the fans feel they have to boo a player who went to work for them and played in almost every game being one of the best second basement in the league.

This one fan doesn't believe in booing former players.
This one fan thinks Yankee fans are hypercritical calling out Cano because he took more money, and rick slice it any way you want, 10 years at 24 million is MORE than 7 years at 25 million.
One fan's opinion, and you can throw any question you want, it wont change my mind, so there is nothing more to discuss.
 
yankeesince59 said:
...you can take your holier than thou "limited amount of people" reference and stick it in your ear.

...one more time, Boggs has nothing to do with this, neither does Boston. Boggs was 35 years old and near the end of his career when he came to NY. The Boston fans wanted him to stay but management evidently did not...and you are trying to compare Boggs/Mattingly to Cano's situation?

...let's end this;

1...did the Yankees "disrespect" Cano, yes or no? YES...he was disrespected in that he was underpaid for many years, the Yankees had plenty of chances to sign him long term, not wait until he was a free agent.

2...did Cano turn down 7 years/$175 Mil from the Yanx than for no other reason than more money from Seattle?...yes or no? Yes, and again I will say this...EVERY SINGLE PERSON WOULD DO THE SAME
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I don't understand why you think Boggs has nothing to do with it....The Sox fans cheered for the returning player even though he WENT TO THE YANKEES. If that isn't a slap in the face to Red Sox nation than what would be? Yet they decided as a fan base to cheer for the returning player.

The Yankees could have matched the contract dollar for dollar and choose not to, just like the Sox decided they didn't want Boggs anymore. The Yankees print money in the bowels of Yankee Stadium, they could afford 10 Robinson Cano's. Instead they used their money on Ellsbury a lesser player than Cano.
 
BigDaddyAl1973 said:
you are something I tell you...

you stated that Cano would have a better chance with a stacked Yankee lineup....last year's team was truly a stacked lineup, where is the assurance that the future it would be that way?
you stated that Cano would have a better chance at the HOF being in Yankee Stadium and a stacked lineup...there have been plenty of players who earn the HOF without playing with the short porch in right field and having talent surrounding them.

For the umpteenth time, we're not talking about "other players" (Boggs, Mattingly, and God knows who you'll pull out of your ass next)...we're talking about Cano. Do you dispute that his numbers will very likely be worse playing in Seattle as opposed to NY?...yes or no?

Bottom line is, this is a business decision, and the decision for once did not go the Yankee way so the fans feel they have to boo a player who went to work for them and played in almost every game being one of the best second basement in the league.

This one fan doesn't believe in booing former players.
This one fan thinks Yankee fans are hypercritical calling out Cano because he took more money, and rick slice it any way you want, 10 years at 24 million is MORE than 7 years at 25 million.
One fan's opinion, and you can throw any question you want, it wont change my mind, so there is nothing more to discuss.

...^^^lol...this pretty much sums it all up.
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---
 
1...did the Yankees "disrespect" Cano, yes or no?

YES...he was disrespected in that he was underpaid for many years, the Yankees had plenty of chances to sign him long term, not wait until he was a free agent.]

================


...lmao...the Yanx tried to resign him BEFORE he became a FA and BEFORE he fired Boras...you really are lost here.






2...did Cano turn down 7 years/$175 Mil from the Yanx than for no other reason than more money from Seattle?...yes or no?

"Yes, and again I will say this...EVERY SINGLE PERSON WOULD DO THE SAME"

=========================

...and you would be wrong again...would you like a list of players who gave a "home town discount" or resigned early instead of waiting for free agency?
 
BigDaddyAl1973 said:
I don't understand why you think Boggs has nothing to do with it....The Sox fans cheered for the returning player even though he WENT TO THE YANKEES. If that isn't a slap in the face to Red Sox nation than what would be? Yet they decided as a fan base to cheer for the returning player.

The Yankees could have matched the contract dollar for dollar and choose not to, just like the Sox decided they didn't want Boggs anymore. The Yankees print money in the bowels of Yankee Stadium, they could afford 10 Robinson Cano's. Instead they used their money on Ellsbury a lesser player than Cano.
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...lmao....uhhh, Does Cano play CF?...does Ellsbury play 2nd base?...the Yanx went into the off season hoping to sign Cano, McCann, and Tanaka...once Cano rejected the Yanx' offer, Ellsbury became an option.
...and again, the Yanx management really hoped would return Cano...Boston management didn't really care if Boggs came back or not, although the fans appreciated him. You're speaking of more irrelevancies...Boggs was near the end of his career while Cano was in his prime...apples and oranges.

...and the Yanx could have matched Seattle "dollar for dollar"?...wow, so you're either saying the Yanx should have either offered Cano 10 years/$240 Mil...OR they should have given Cano 7 years/$240 Mil ($34.28 Mil per year) ...seriously ???



...now, let's see you extricate yourself from your latest faux pas.
 
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BigDaddyAl1973 said:
I don't understand why you think Boggs has nothing to do with it....The Sox fans cheered for the returning player even though he WENT TO THE YANKEES. If that isn't a slap in the face to Red Sox nation than what would be? Yet they decided as a fan base to cheer for the returning player.

The Yankees could have matched the contract dollar for dollar and choose not to, just like the Sox decided they didn't want Boggs anymore. The Yankees print money in the bowels of Yankee Stadium, they could afford 10 Robinson Cano's. Instead they used their money on Ellsbury a lesser player than Cano.
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I wasn't going to respond to this topic anymore but I just needed to say something about Boggs. The reason IMO that the Red sox fans cheered his return is because like the Sox management they thought his career was on the decline as he hit a career low 259 & was almost 35. I'm sure it was a case of the fans just thanking him for what he did before his career declined completely. Little did they know that he still had several 300 seasons ahead of him.

Also IMO if he had a great 1992 season & left the fans wouldn't have cheered him.
 
BigDaddyAl1973 said:
please ..share...
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...how many would it take for you to admit you're wrong?...oh, that's right, you already said you "would not change your mind" no matter what...because you are a enlightened fan who does not boo players...should we genuflect?
 
Rick2583 said:
I wasn't going to respond to this topic anymore but I just needed to say something about Boggs. The reason IMO that the Red sox fans cheered his return is because like the Sox management they thought his career was on the decline as he hit a career low 259 & was almost 35. I'm sure it was a case of the fans just thanking him for what he did before his declined completely. Little did they know that he still had several 300 seasons ahead of him.



Also IMO if he had a great 1992 season & left the fans wouldn't have cheered him.
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...yup, and they did the same thing with Clemens and others...with them, it wasn't all about the money.
 
BigDaddyAl1973 said:
Ive been to the HOF..guess what there are plenty of players in there that never wore the pinstripes. Cano can still have a legacy and be a hof'er without playing the rest of his career in the bronx.

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yankeesince59 said:
...is there some sort of point there?...answer this simple question; Would Cano have been more assured of the HOF if he had remained in NY?...yes or no? If you say no, you implying that his numbers will be the same in Seattle.
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The only way he might have further enhanced his case for Cooperstown would be the increased likelihood for better numbers... he'll still have numbers that will likely lead to the HOF, but they likely would've been even better in NY...

And by better, that would be a result of a smaller park AND more protection in the line-up...
 
Hof isn't all about home runs...with a big park comes the possibly of more doubles and high batting average.

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