You can build a great team with non-lottery picks

[Rastapopoulos]

Several people have made the point that Portland, like Utah, Milwaukee, OKC et al. is unlikely to attract big free agents, so we need to get better at drafting. The good news is, even if we creep into the playoffs we can still find good players. Now, of course drafting is a crapshoot. But some teams are better than others, and it seems to me that in this age of "big data" a rich tech-savvy owner like Allen could work out who in the other organization is finding bargains and throw money at hiring them. In other words, why not build the best scouting system in pro sports? Here are the best non-lottery players since 2010 that were available (with the last couple of years it's too soon to tell, really). Looking at this, I'd say Utah is the team to raid for scouts.

2010
18 Oklahoma City Thunder Eric Bledsoe G, 6-1, 190 Kentucky (actually an Olshey pick!)
19 Boston Celtics Avery Bradley G, 6-3, 180 Texas
20 San Antonio Spurs James Anderson G, 6-6, 195 Oklahoma State
23 Minnesota Timberwolves Trevor Booker F, 6-7, 240 Clemson
33 Sacramento Kings Hassan Whiteside C, 7-0, 235 Marshall
35 Washington Wizards Nemanja Bjelica F, 6-10, 223 Serbia (Red Star Serbia)

2011
17. Knicks Iman Shumpert PG
19. Bobcats Tobias Harris PF
22. Nuggets Kenneth Faried PF
23. Rockets Nikola Mirotic SF
24. Thunder Reggie Jackson PG
29. Spurs Cory Joseph PG
30. Bulls Jimmy Butler SF
31. Heat Bojan Bogdanovic SF
38. Rockets Chandler Parsons SF
40. Bucks Jon Leuer PF
55. Celtics E'Twaun Moore SG
60. Kings Isaiah Thomas PG

2012
17. Mavericks Tyler Zeller C
18. Rockets Terrence Jones PF
20. Nuggets Evan Fournier SG
21. Celtics Jared Sullinger PF
30. Warriors Festus Ezeli C
34. Cavaliers Jae Crowder SF
35. Warriors Draymond Green SF
39. Pistons Khris Middleton SF
40. Trail Blazers Will Barton SG
49. Magic Kyle O'Quinn C

2013
17. Hawks Dennis Schroeder PG
21. Jazz Gorgui Dieng C
22. Nets Mason Plumlee C
26. Timberwolves Andre Roberson SF
27. Nuggets Rudy Gobert C
31. Cavaliers Allen Crabbe SG
32. Thunder Alex Abrines SG
39. Trail Blazers Jeff Withey C
14. Mavericks Mike Muscala PF
55. Grizzlies Joffrey Lauvergne PF

2014
19. Bulls Gary Harris SG
23. Jazz Rodney Hood SG
25. Rockets Clint Capela PF
30. Spurs Kyle Anderson PF
32. 76ers K.J. McDaniels SF
41. Nuggets Nikola Jokic PF
45. Hornets Dwight Powell PF

2015
21. Mavericks Justin Anderson SF
22. Bulls Bobby Portis PF
23. Trail Blazers Rondae Hollis-Jefferson SF
27. Lakers Larry Nance Jr. PF
32. Rockets Montrezl Harrell PF
37. 76ers Richaun Holmes PF
40. Heat Josh Richardson SG
46. Bucks Norman Powell SG

2016
27 Toronto Pascal Siakam (PF) New Mexico St
36 Milwaukee Malcolm Brogdon (SG) Virginia

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

It's kind of a crapshoot tbh

 

[TBpup]

2016: #29 Dejounte Murray
2014: #30 Kyle Anderson
2011: #29 Cory Joseph
2011: #15 Kawhi Leonard in Draft day trade for former #26 pick George Hill
2009: #37 DeJuan Blair
2008: #26 George Hill
2008: #45 Goran Dragic
2007: #28 Tiago Splitter
2005: #28 Ian Mahinmi
2004: #28 Beno Udrih
2003: #28 Leandro Barbosa
2002: #26 John Salmons
2002: #55 Luis Scola
2001: #28 Tony Parker
1999: #57 Manu Ginobili

.....all San Antonio Spurs. How about we just figure out who they are going to draft and select that player.

 

[Minstrel]

.....all San Antonio Spurs. How about we just figure out who they are going to draft and select that player.

We did that once, successfully: Nicolas Batum.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Lotsa furriners on that list. I dunno if that'll fly in 2017 'Murica.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

So, basically my idea of "raid the best-drafting team" has been had by half the teams in the League. However, Sam "Trust the process" Hinkie is available...

 

[julius]

2016: #29 Dejounte Murray
2014: #30 Kyle Anderson
2011: #29 Cory Joseph
2011: #15 Kawhi Leonard in Draft day trade for former #26 pick George Hill
2009: #37 DeJuan Blair
2008: #26 George Hill
2008: #45 Goran Dragic
2007: #28 Tiago Splitter
2005: #28 Ian Mahinmi
2004: #28 Beno Udrih
2003: #28 Leandro Barbosa
2002: #26 John Salmons
2002: #55 Luis Scola
2001: #28 Tony Parker
1999: #57 Manu Ginobili

.....all San Antonio Spurs. How about we just figure out who they are going to draft and select that player.

Didn't hurt that the Spurs had Duncan for most of those picks...

 

[Rastapopoulos]

We did that once, successfully: Nicolas Batum.

Of course, their backup plan was drafting George Hill, whom they swapped for Kawhi Leonard, so it could be argued we did them a favor.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Didn't hurt that the Spurs had Duncan for most of those picks...

HE's their secret scout?

 

[julius]

HE's their secret scout?

He's their secret "Makes other players look much better" scout.

 

[TBpup]

Didn't hurt that the Spurs had Duncan for most of those picks...

Of course it didn't, but that is still very good drafting so continually late almost every year. Duncan was a shell last year, gone this year and the remaining draftees are doing quite well....2nd best record in the NBA.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Several people have made the point that Portland, like Utah, Milwaukee, OKC et al. is unlikely to attract big free agents, so we need to get better at drafting. The good news is, even if we creep into the playoffs we can still find good players. Now, of course drafting is a crapshoot. But some teams are better than others, and it seems to me that in this age of "big data" a rich tech-savvy owner like Allen could work out who in the other organization is finding bargains and throw money at hiring them. In other words, why not build the best scouting system in pro sports? Here are the best non-lottery players since 2010 that were available (with the last couple of years it's too soon to tell, really). Looking at this, I'd say Utah is the team to raid for scouts.

2010
18 Oklahoma City Thunder Eric Bledsoe G, 6-1, 190 Kentucky (actually an Olshey pick!)
19 Boston Celtics Avery Bradley G, 6-3, 180 Texas
20 San Antonio Spurs James Anderson G, 6-6, 195 Oklahoma State
23 Minnesota Timberwolves Trevor Booker F, 6-7, 240 Clemson
33 Sacramento Kings Hassan Whiteside C, 7-0, 235 Marshall
35 Washington Wizards Nemanja Bjelica F, 6-10, 223 Serbia (Red Star Serbia)

2011
17. Knicks Iman Shumpert PG
19. Bobcats Tobias Harris PF
22. Nuggets Kenneth Faried PF
23. Rockets Nikola Mirotic SF
24. Thunder Reggie Jackson PG
29. Spurs Cory Joseph PG
30. Bulls Jimmy Butler SF
31. Heat Bojan Bogdanovic SF
38. Rockets Chandler Parsons SF
40. Bucks Jon Leuer PF
55. Celtics E'Twaun Moore SG
60. Kings Isaiah Thomas PG

2012
17. Mavericks Tyler Zeller C
18. Rockets Terrence Jones PF
20. Nuggets Evan Fournier SG
21. Celtics Jared Sullinger PF
30. Warriors Festus Ezeli C
34. Cavaliers Jae Crowder SF
35. Warriors Draymond Green SF
39. Pistons Khris Middleton SF
40. Trail Blazers Will Barton SG
49. Magic Kyle O'Quinn C

2013
17. Hawks Dennis Schroeder PG
21. Jazz Gorgui Dieng C
22. Nets Mason Plumlee C
26. Timberwolves Andre Roberson SF
27. Nuggets Rudy Gobert C
31. Cavaliers Allen Crabbe SG
32. Thunder Alex Abrines SG
39. Trail Blazers Jeff Withey C
14. Mavericks Mike Muscala PF
55. Grizzlies Joffrey Lauvergne PF

2014
19. Bulls Gary Harris SG
23. Jazz Rodney Hood SG
25. Rockets Clint Capela PF
30. Spurs Kyle Anderson PF
32. 76ers K.J. McDaniels SF
41. Nuggets Nikola Jokic PF
45. Hornets Dwight Powell PF

2015
21. Mavericks Justin Anderson SF
22. Bulls Bobby Portis PF
23. Trail Blazers Rondae Hollis-Jefferson SF
27. Lakers Larry Nance Jr. PF
32. Rockets Montrezl Harrell PF
37. 76ers Richaun Holmes PF
40. Heat Josh Richardson SG
46. Bucks Norman Powell SG

2016
27 Toronto Pascal Siakam (PF) New Mexico St
36 Milwaukee Malcolm Brogdon (SG) Virginia

Great thought and idea, but I don't see how you come out of this with Utah? They were only in the non lottery 2 of the years you posted and drafted Rodney Hood and Gorgui Dieng.
If anything, based on the list you show, the Nuggets seem to have done very well.

 

[Minstrel]

He's their secret "Makes other players look much better" scout.

They look pretty good this year without him, unless you mean that he actually made them better players, not just made them look better. I find that unlikely, though.

 

[handiman]

When it comes to S.A., I think it's equal parts scouting and player development. Look at all the work Kawhi did behind the scenes, with a level of discipline and dedication you just don't hear about often. Patty Mills didn't get in shape until he went there.

 

[julius]

They look pretty good this year without him, unless you mean that he actually made them better players, not just made them look better. I find that unlikely, though.

take off the lottery picks on the spurs, and see how they do.

 

[Minstrel]

take off the lottery picks on the spurs, and see how they do.

The only "lottery picks" they have among their main players are Pau Gasol and LaMarcus Aldridge, both of whom were free agent signings. Kawhi Leonard wasn't drafted by them or a lottery pick and they got him by trading George Hill, and end-of-the-first-round guy. Dedmon and Simmons were undrafted free agents. Patty Mills we know all about and was obviously no lottery pick. Danny Green was a second-rounder and a scrapheap pick-up by the Spurs. Neither Ginobili nor Parker were lottery picks.

So they've built a ton of value outside the lottery. Yes, obviously in the past two years, they've supplemented with Aldridge and Gasol, but their franchise superstar is Leonard. Tim Duncan was obviously a huge part of their success, but brilliant drafting/scrapheap findings are what's kept them relevant for almost two decades and keeps them relevant now that Duncan is gone.

 

[Orion Bailey]

The only "lottery picks" they have among their main players are Pau Gasol and LaMarcus Aldridge, both of whom were free agent signings. Kawhi Leonard wasn't drafted by them or a lottery pick and they got him by trading George Hill, and end-of-the-first-round guy. Dedmon and Simmons were undrafted free agents. Patty Mills we know all about and was obviously no lottery pick. Danny Green was a second-rounder and a scrapheap pick-up by the Spurs. Neither Ginobili nor Parker were lottery picks.

So they've built a ton of value outside the lottery. Yes, obviously in the past two years, they've supplemented with Aldridge and Gasol, but their franchise superstar is Leonard. Tim Duncan was obviously a huge part of their success, but brilliant drafting/scrapheap findings are what's kept them relevant for almost two decades and keeps them relevant now that Duncan is gone.

And I believe we have a scouting/drafting staff/philosophy that is closer to the SPurs than many think. Now if we can improve on the Defensive coaching and development, we have the bulk of the long term assets required to sustain a winning franchise like the SPurs, in place.
Yes a Duncan would indeed help, but is not the end all.

 

[Mediocre Man]

No you can't. You can build a decent team, that will be the 4-5 seed each year, but never have a realistic shot at a title

 

[julius]

The only "lottery picks" they have among their main players are Pau Gasol and LaMarcus Aldridge, both of whom were free agent signings. Kawhi Leonard wasn't drafted by them or a lottery pick and they got him by trading George Hill, and end-of-the-first-round guy. Dedmon and Simmons were undrafted free agents. Patty Mills we know all about and was obviously no lottery pick. Danny Green was a second-rounder and a scrapheap pick-up by the Spurs. Neither Ginobili nor Parker were lottery picks.

So they've built a ton of value outside the lottery. Yes, obviously in the past two years, they've supplemented with Aldridge and Gasol, but their franchise superstar is Leonard. Tim Duncan was obviously a huge part of their success, but brilliant drafting/scrapheap findings are what's kept them relevant for almost two decades and keeps them relevant now that Duncan is gone.

"you can build a great team with non lottery picks".

Duncan was the bread and butter for 4 of their 5 title runs teams.

 

[TBpup]

take off the lottery picks on the spurs, and see how they do.

Take off the Lottery picks off of the Blazers and see how they do. Wait....

Lillard #6
Aminu #8
Vonleh #9
McCollum #10
Leonard #11
Davis #13

Before someone points out that the Blazers didn't draft all of these players, of course they didn't. But drafting well (especially when you are a small market team) is paramount. Portland just hasn't hit on some of the diamonds in the rough like Serge Ibaka, George Hill, DeAndre Jordon, Goran Dragic, Jrue Holida, Darren Collison, Jeff Teague, Taj Gibson, DeMarre Carroll, Patrick Beverly, Danny Green, Eric Bledsoe, Avery Bradley, Trevor Booker, Hassan Whiteside, Kawhi Leonard, Tobias Harris, Kenneth Farid, Reggie Jackson, Jimmy Butler, Chandler Parsons, Isaiah Thomas, Jae Crowder, Draymond Green, Giannis Antetok0unmpo, Andre Roberson, Rudy Gobert, Jusef Nurkic, Rodney Hood, Clint Capela, Kyle Anderson, Richaun Holmes, Dejounte Murray, and Malcolm Brogdon.

All of those players were drafted in the Lottery since the 2008 Draft. There is everything from NBA Finals MVP's to rookie starters in there but the thing they have in common is they have all contributed as at least a very solid rotation player to their teams that makes supports the stars.

Portland has hit on a few but of the following, only drafted Mills, Barton and Crabbe of which they only have Crabbe who they didn't trade away. They've picked up some other peoples 'diamond in the rough' picks and of those, Plumlee and Harkless have been solid contributors.

Patty Mills - let go
Maurice Harkless - acquired for cheap
Will Barton - traded away in what is considered by most to be a very bad trade in eventuality
Mason Plumlee - acquired for defensive wing Hollis-Jefferson
Allen Crabbe - acquired for 2 2nd round Draft picks. Now making more than many starters.
Shabazz Napier - picked up off the Magic scrap heap.

 

[Minstrel]

Duncan was the bread and butter for 4 of their 5 title runs teams.

Okay, "you can build a great team around a star with non-lottery picks." In context, I'm pretty sure what Rasta was saying is that Portland doesn't need lottery picks to build a strong team at this point. The Spurs have done the vast majority of their team-building without lottery picks. Duncan wouldn't have been enough alone and they're still elite now without him.

 

[Cippy91]

Still can't believe Meyers went 11...

 

[Hobbesarable]

Still can't believe Meyers went 11...

Such a freaking waste.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Okay, "you can build a great team around a star with non-lottery picks." In context, I'm pretty sure what Rasta was saying is that Portland doesn't need lottery picks to build a strong team at this point. The Spurs have done the vast majority of their team-building without lottery picks. Duncan wouldn't have been enough alone and they're still elite now without him.

Not a star, the best player of a generation, and not so arguably, the best PF in the history of the game. Lillard is a star, Duncan was a dog star

 

[tlongII]

Nope

 

[Rastapopoulos]

"you can build a great team with non lottery picks".

Duncan was the bread and butter for 4 of their 5 title runs teams.

I didn't say "the Spurs built a title team with non-lottery picks" which appears to be what you're arguing against.

 

[Minstrel]

Not a star

You don't think Duncan was a star? Wow, man, I've seen a lot of haters, but that's really something!

And yes, obviously Lillard isn't Duncan, that doesn't change the point. You don't have to accomplish what the Spurs did to be a great team.

 

[Mediocre Man]

You don't think Duncan was a star? Wow, man, I've seen a lot of haters, but that's really something!

And yes, obviously Lillard isn't Duncan, that doesn't change the point. You don't have to accomplish what the Spurs did to be a great team.

Name a sustained great team who hasn't that way

 

[Orion Bailey]

Name a sustained great team who hasn't that way

Detroit Pistons

To say sustained isnt fair. how many teams sustain period.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

in the last couple years will barton was a good 2nd round guy. patty cakes. jeff withey? before that, batum was a good nab. dante cunningham. id say the blazers are about average?