You can't have liabilities in the lineup if you want to win the cup

[kreidertime]

Rangers have at least 3. St. Louis, Boyle and Glass. That's three too many.

 

[kreidertime]

I can't blame AV for much the past 2 years but this year he's made some bad mistakes. The 4th line was key last year in winning games. He could have brought Lindberg up after 40-50 games and developed him like Fast but he stuck with Glass and the 4th line has been useless ever since. A poster made a good point on the FAN this morning. He's putting St. Louis who is done on the first PP unit instead of Nash. While Nash is useless in the playoffs on offense, the odds of that moron scoring a PP goal are still a lot better than St. Louis who simply can't play any longer. Plus putting Boyle with Stall when you have home ice and can match up is dumb. I can see putting Klein with Yandle on the road to cover up that morons turnovers. Not at home where he can matchup the lines.

 

[chuckd3534]

Boyle has been fine. Glass is a 4th line player. He sucks but he is a 4th line player. MSL...yeah he is an issue, I won't argue that one. I have never seen a guy win ZERO board battles, but that's MSL now. And I agree, at home I would have Staal with Klein considering we have last change AND TB has two lines doing all their scoring.

With that said I don't think you are watching this series (actually pretty sure you are not based on your comments of watching the draft and sleeping). 5 or 6 players have done all the scoring for TB. Their 3rd pair of D isn't good. Those 5 or 6 players have scored virtually all their goals and have dominated us. It is very rare that you can say we are getting beat by a 2 line team...period, but that's what's happening.

I still say the most frustrating thing about last night is the fact we never tested Bishop with shots or traffic or rebounds. Guy was bad in games 3 & 4, and we did nothing last night to see where he was at with his game...nothing. At least when Hank bounced back in game 4 the Bolts tested him big time and he passed, Bishop who the F knows since maybe he made 2 or 3 semi tough saves all night. That angers me.

 

[kreidertime]

What you call liabilities for Tampa is comical compared to the guys on the Rangers. Glass is a player who ruins the entire offense of any line he's on. Tampa doesn't have a guy like that. Tampa doesn't have a 39 year old forward who can't play any longer in the playoffs and is a turnover machine. They don't have their star forward not consistently score. Stamkos is scoring now. Nash had one game. That's it. You seem to be the only fan now that can't admit this team has looked like garbage almost the entire playoffs.

 

[chuckd3534]

Interesting dump...so 5 or 6 players do ALL their scoring and you say that. Their lower D is at best questionable. So stop already. We are way deeper than TB, they simply have two lines dominating us.

And I am a fan who is honest, I just posted we have not looked good in these playoffs. You are a fan who has made this post 3 or 4 times already in these playofs, MAYBE for once you will be right...LOL.

 

[kreidertime]

The margin for winning in the playoffs is very small. You can't have two relics who are shot in Boyle and St. Louis out there and a player in Glass who destroys all the offense of his line. You have 12 forwards and 6 defenseman. 3 out of 18 players who are useless is 17% of that squad. That's 17% too much that doesn't do crap. There was no reason for Boyle and Glass. Sather and AV could have gone with McIlrath and Lindberg, saved 6 million dollars and the team most likely would have been considerably better off. They showed patience with Miller, Hayes and Fast and were rewarded. They showed none with McIlrath and Lindberg and are being punished severely for it.

 

[chuckd3534]

Interesting when you consider Boyle has played really well in this series, and most of the Caps series after a rocky start. Boyle has not been an issue. Glass and MSL are issues, but at least Glass is a 4th line guy. MSL has really hurt us. He isn't just not scoring, he is also turning the puck over and making a lot of weak plays playing top 9 and 1st PP unit minutes. That has hurt us.

We can spin all the BS we want, but the reality is MSL first and Nash second have been what have hurt us in these playoffs. MSL because he hasn't done anything and makes mistakes as well. Nash to his credit does positive things still, BUT we need him to score or else we are in trouble.

That's it in a nutshell to me.

 

[Rangers94]

Glass is what he is. A 4th line grinder. He is NOT the issue with this team. He's actually been alright and hasn't taken dumb penalties like the rest of the team. He got beat on a play last night when he, honestly, should NOT have even been on the ice. Why AV put him out there when Stamkos was out there is still mind boggling. The biggest issue is MSL and his complete loss of his game and AV's loyalty to him in not removing him from the PP not dropping him down. That's why we are where we are.

 

[Messiah717]

I just mentioned it in the game thread that it's useless to keep hammering a guy like Boyle when he has played much better and Staal has been so absolutely dreadful. In other words the Ranger stars aren't getting the job done. Now we're running to the bottom of the lineup to see who we can blame. Start with the top guys not getting the job done. This would be like blaming Jay Wells when the Rangers were down 3-2 to NJ in the 1994 ECF.

 

[kreidertime]

You are 100% WRONG. He IS an issue with this team. He kills all the offense of the 4th line. Last year the offense of the 4th line was a big reason they went to the finals. Hockey is a 4 line game. You can have one line be completely useless. It's stupid.

 

[Messiah717]

Last year there was Dorsett instead of Glass who did absolutely nothing offensively in the playoffs.

 

[Rangers94]

Last year there was Dorsett instead of Glass who did absolutely nothing offensively in the playoffs.

EXACTLY!!!! Glass is on a line with Sheppard who also has no offensive talent, and THAT is the issue. We have a fourth line with two guys who have no chance to score a goal. Only one of them is needed on the ice a game, but due to injuries we have both and that is what hurts that 4th line. It's not just Glass on his own at this point.

 

[chuckd3534]

I'm with you Mess, this isn't about Glass or Miller it is about the top players not getting it done. Staal has been terrible in this series since game 2. Hags hasn't scored since Pitt. Nash had one game but nothing else. MSL is killing the team, and AV refuses to get him off the 1st PP. Those are the guys.

McD I think has been fine, but is fine enough from our stud # 1 dman? That is why I haven't gotten on McD. I think he has been pretty solid, but his issue is we expect stud. He hasn't been that.

Brass has 1 goal in 5 games. Hags 1 point and is a -3 in the series. Staal 0 points and is a -4 in the series. MSL is a -5 in this series...MINUS 5. Nash had 3 points in game 4...outside of that game he has ZERO points in the series...ZERO.

On the flip side, Yandle has 5 points in the series (all in games 3 & 4) and is a + 5. Not bad.

Not good enough.

 

[Rangers94]

You are 100% WRONG. He IS an issue with this team. He kills all the offense of the 4th line. Last year the offense of the 4th line was a big reason they went to the finals. Hockey is a 4 line game. You can have one line be completely useless. It's stupid.

It's funny you say hockey is a four line game because Tampa is beating us with just two.

 

[Messiah717]

EXACTLY!!!! Glass is on a line with Sheppard who also has no offensive talent, and THAT is the issue. We have a fourth line with two guys who have no chance to score a goal. Only one of them is needed on the ice a game, but due to injuries we have both and that is what hurts that 4th line. It's not just Glass on his own at this point.

That's where losing a top forward in Zuc has really hurt badly.

 

[Messiah717]

I'm with you Mess, this isn't about Glass or Miller it is about the top players not getting it done. Staal has been terrible in this series since game 2. Hags hasn't scored since Pitt. Nash had one game but nothing else. MSL is killing the team, and AV refuses to get him off the 1st PP. Those are the guys.

McD I think has been fine, but is fine enough from our stud # 1 dman? That is why I haven't gotten on McD. I think he has been pretty solid, but his issue is we expect stud. He hasn't been that.

Brass has 1 goal in 5 games. Hags 1 point and is a -3 in the series. Staal 0 points and is a -4 in the series. MSL is a -5 in this series...MINUS 5. Nash had 3 points in game 4...outside of that game he has ZERO points in the series...ZERO.

On the flip side, Yandle has 5 points in the series (all in games 3 & 4) and is a + 5. Not bad.

Not good enough.

Perhaps it's unrealistic to expect Brian Leetch out there but Mcdonagh was needed to be a lot better then this. Just being ok doesn't cut it for one of your top players when you're going deep in the playoffs.

 

[chuckd3534]

I agree. Like I said he has been fine but not great. But I also truly believe McD is far from a main reason we are down 3-2. Go look at the list of the other guys I mentioned, I put every single one of them ahead of McD as a reason we are down.

As for the 4th line stuff, BS IMO. Glass has been solid as a 4th liner in the playoffs, outside of a boneheaded play last night. The 4th line hasn't scored, but they created some cycle and zone time. AND take a look at TB beating us with TWO lines...TWO.

Again you want answers as to why we are down, stop the BS of blaming a 4th line and focus on the big guys. MSL nothing and a minus 5. Nash 0 points in 4 of 5 games. Staal a minus 4. Brass 1 goal in 5 games. Look there, not at Glass and the 4th line.

That's it as we get beat by 6 or 7 players on TB.

 

[Messiah717]

I agree. Like I said he has been fine but not great. But I also truly believe McD is far from a main reason we are down 3-2. Go look at the list of the other guys I mentioned, I put every single one of them ahead of McD as a reason we are down.

As for the 4th line stuff, BS IMO. Glass has been solid as a 4th liner in the playoffs, outside of a boneheaded play last night. The 4th line hasn't scored, but they created some cycle and zone time. AND take a look at TB beating us with TWO lines...TWO.

Again you want answers as to why we are down, stop the BS of blaming a 4th line and focus on the big guys. MSL nothing and a minus 5. Nash 0 points in 4 of 5 games. Staal a minus 4. Brass 1 goal in 5 games. Look there, not at Glass and the 4th line.

That's it as we get beat by 6 or 7 players on TB.

They didn't score so I don't see the point of blaming a guy for a goal Tampa scored.

 

[chuckd3534]

Doesn't change the fact that it was a dumb play by Glass, but again it is one play in a long game and Glass has been pretty solid for his role in this series. Blaming Glass is beyond moronic when ALL the other stats of the top players are very poor. It is double moronic when you see TB beating us with two lines.

We are down because of MSL, and Nash, and Staal, and Hags, and Brass doing very little in this series. There is your issue not 4th line Glass.

 

[kreidertime]

Tampa isn't beating us with two lines you freaking moron. The other 2 lines aren't giving up anything. They are holding serve. We have players that are giving up tons of scoring chances because they suck. While Dorsett didn't have points, he didn't slow down the offense of Moore and Boyle on the 4th line. Moore had 8 points in the playoffs last year. He has 2 this year. Glass has killed the offense of the 4th line. Dorsett didn't do that. He didn't help it but he didn't destroy the offense of Moore and Boyle in the playoffs.

Tampa is built differently. They have 2, high powered lines. The other 2 lines play more of a defensive role. Our team doens't have 2 high powered lines. We need scoring from all 4 lines including some by the 4th line.

 

[Rangers94]

i don't even blame Glass Chuck. I think it was stupid for AV to put him out there with Stamkos on the ice. AV changed lines and put Glass out there. Just stupidity there.

 

[chuckd3534]

Again, anyone who would blame Glass is missing it. Bad play yes, but blaming him for where we are overall is ridiculous.

 

[chuckd3534]

TB has TWO lines scoring dump. That is all. Their 3rd and 4th lines have done nothing.

The difference in the series is their top guys are scoring...are top guys aren't doing sh*t. That is all.

You want to blame Glass you go for it dump. It is all on Tanner Glass that Staal is a -4, and MSL is a -5, and Nash has zero points in 4 of 5 games, and Brass has 1 goal, and Hags hasn't scored since the Pitt series. BLAME GLASS...LOL.

 

[Messiah717]

Tampa isn't beating us with two lines you freaking moron. The other 2 lines aren't giving up anything. They are holding serve. We have players that are giving up tons of scoring chances because they suck. While Dorsett didn't have points, he didn't slow down the offense of Moore and Boyle on the 4th line. Moore had 8 points in the playoffs last year. He has 2 this year. Glass has killed the offense of the 4th line. Dorsett didn't do that. He didn't help it but he didn't destroy the offense of Moore and Boyle in the playoffs.

Tampa is built differently. They have 2, high powered lines. The other 2 lines play more of a defensive role. Our team doens't have 2 high powered lines. We need scoring from all 4 lines including some by the 4th line.

Again, this is where the Zucc injury has really hurt. You have Sheppard and Glass both playing when only one of them should be.

 

[kreidertime]

Some of you are living in a world of make believe. The 4th line was excellent last year. Fact. The team had a lot of dominant periods and games in the playoffs. This year, they have struggled almost every game. It's really a miracle they made it this far. I said the team was flawed at the beginning of the year. They are. They won a ton of regular season games because they play hard almost every regular season game and they are pretty deep, talent wise. However, as the playoffs started they were exposed. They don't have a 4th line. They struggle terribly with big teams with speed who could match their speed. They also suck on faceoffs.

 

[chuckd3534]

Does TB have a 4th line? Maybe I missed it.

Is that why all our top guys have done sh*t this series?

And I know Zucc is a big loss, but I can't hear that right now. Teams have injuries and need to deal with them. Would things be different if Zucc was here, who knows, but he isn't and if our top guys weren't sucking we'd still be okay. We beat the Caps without him. We struggled to score against Pitt with him. A loss, but no excuses. We had enough to get by the Caps without him, so I don't want to use that as an excuse.

 

[chuckd3534]

And for the record, I do agree with you dump that we need to upgrade the 4th line for next season, part of the tweaks I think we need, but I cannot blame Tanner Glass for us being down 3-2 against TB.

 

[kreidertime]

Again, just look at Chicago. They won it all and broke it down. Money reasons and because they knew what their core was and knew who they had to keep. I was on the fence about Stepan being the core but now I say the core going forward for the next 3-4 years is this.

Kreider, Brassard, Stepan, McDonagh, Zuccarello, Hayes, Fast, Miller and Lundqvist. As far as I'm concerned, any of the others can be dealt to build the team a different way. I think Miller will be a great third line guy. I think Fast can be a great 4th line guy with Lindberg and Moore.

 

[chuckd3534]

Kreider/Step, Zucc/Brass, Miller/Hayes that is a good start to lines 1-3. I would say Nash will be here still to complete the Zucc/Brass line. Hags will be here to complete the Miller/Hayes line. I like a Fast/Moore/Lindberg 4th line. The question is who do we replace MSL with and fit in with CK and Step. And how much can we spend on that spot?

On D the big 4 will be here. I think Yandle will be here at a great cap hit next season. The question there is Boyle as the 6th dman OR do we save some money there and give a kid that spot so we can add a forward to replace MSL. That is the route I go.

 

[kreidertime]

The reality is that the window is closing on this team the way it's constructed. They came close last year. To me, the regular season masked the fact that they slipped backward as a playoff team this season. They struggled all playoffs. The team needs to be constructed differently. That starts with Sather. No more rejects like Glass. I have said for years this needed to be a 4 line team. I talked for years about the 4th line being an all Swede line of Hagelin-Lindberg-Fast. That is the direction they need to go in. I talked for years about having a nasty defenseman like McIlrath on the defense. AV needs to get a clue and develop him.