Your guess for who will be our starting center next year

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Portland's starting center will be

  • Mason Plumlee

    Votes: 17 20.5%

  • Dwight Howard

    Votes: 7 8.4%

  • Bismack Biyombo

    Votes: 4 4.8%

  • Meyers Leonard

    Votes: 4 4.8%

  • Ed Davis

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Al Horford

    Votes: 8 9.6%

  • Hassan Whiteside

    Votes: 30 36.1%

  • Festus Ezeli

    Votes: 3 3.6%

  • Other

    Votes: 10 12.0%
  • Total voters
    83
Boob-No-More said:
I think he can, but I think it negates one of the main reasons you try to sign him - his pick and roll defense. In today's NBA, most teams (at least most good teams) run a high pick and roll with the center being the one setting most of the high picks. It is the stretch 4's job to create space. If you have Horford guarding stretch 4s, he's no longer involved in the bulk of the pick and rolls you're trying to stop.

Whiteside is a better rim protector, at least in terms of weakside help defense, but an inferior pick and roll defender. If you let Horford guard the other teams 5, to take advantage of his stellar pick and roll defense, you have Whiteside chasing stretch 4s and that completely negates his biggest strength.

Horford and Whiteside would work well together on offense, but pairing then together on defense would be a waste of one, or the other's, biggest strength.

BNM
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That's a good point and I guess it would be really difficult for the two to switch off depending whether there was a postup or pick and roll. Although if Horford got posted up on a play that started as a pick and roll; couldn't Whiteside come over and help; isn't that his strength, help defense? I'm not knowledgeable enough to know how it would work, but isn't there some way to make it work?
 
UKRAINEFAN said:
That's a good point and I guess it would be really difficult for the two to switch off depending whether there was a postup or pick and roll. Although if Horford got posted up on a play that started as a pick and roll; couldn't Whiteside come over and help; isn't that his strength, help defense? I'm not knowledgeable enough to know how it would work, but isn't there some way to make it work?
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Horford is actually an excellent low post defender, but even if he wasn't, it wouldn't make sense to send Whiteside to help as that would leave the other team's stretch 4 unguarded at the 3-point line.

Usually, when you double in the low post, it's a guard or SF, whoever is closest, who comes down to try to strip the ball from behind.

Again, Horford and Whiteside together on defense would not fully utilize their individual strengths. One, or the other, will be playing out of position.

BNM
 
Boob-No-More said:
Horford is actually an excellent low post defender, but even if he wasn't, it wouldn't make sense to send Whiteside to help as that would leave the other team's stretch 4 unguarded at the 3-point line.

Usually, when you double in the low post, it's a guard or SF, whoever is closest, who comes down to try to strip the ball from behind.

Again, Horford and Whiteside together on defense would not fully utilize their individual strengths. One, or the other, will be playing out of position.

BNM
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OK, how about Horford and Mahimni? Same problem?
 
The Raptors are going to be in a predicament this summer.

Some team will give Biz the max - do they match or let him walk?

Who starts -- Valanciunas or Bismack? Neither can play PF. Their skillsets (offensively) don't mesh at all. It'd be like the Clippers trying to get away with DeAndre and Cole Aldrich playing together.
 
UKRAINEFAN said:
OK, how about Horford and Mahimni? Same problem?
Click to expand...

Yeah, in that scenario, Horford would start and Mahimni would back him up.

I don't get the idea of moving Horford to PF. He's been a center his entire 9-year NBA career, and a damn good one (4-time all star). Why move him to a different position at this point in his career, especially with the way the NBA game has evolved over the last five or six years? He's the PERFECT center for today's NBA. Why give that up and expect him to play out of position?

If we are lucky enough to get him (please, oh please, oh please) take full advantage of his unique skill set and continue to play him at the position where he is most effective. He's not LaMarcus Aldridge. He has never complained about being forced to play center. He plays it and plays it well. Again if we are lucky enough to get him, pair him with a stretch 4 and we are good to go. Those are a lot easier to find, and cheaper, than a great 2-way center.

BNM
 
Fez Hammersticks said:
The Raptors are going to be in a predicament this summer.

Some team will give Biz the max - do they match or let him walk?

Who starts -- Valanciunas or Bismack? Neither can play PF. Their skillsets (offensively) don't mesh at all. It'd be like the Clippers trying to get away with DeAndre and Cole Aldrich playing together.
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Yep, which is why I think Olshey goes for one of Biyombo are Aldrich (assuming we have no shot at Horford or Whiteside), exactly the same way he went hard after Enes Kanter last summer.

He forced OKC to make Steven Adam's backup a max contract player. He currently makes as much as Russel Westbrook. They matched, but will be in serious luxury tax trouble if they hope to re-sign Durant and Westbrook. Given their history of going cheap, I think Olshey may have prevented a possible dynasty in OKC at the same time our guys will be in their prime. It was a great chess move - thinking several moves ahead.

If we strike out on Horford and Whiteside, look for him to force LAC's or TOR's hand.

BNM
 
Boob-No-More said:
Yep, which is why I think Olshey goes for one of Biyombo are Aldrich (assuming we have no shot at Horford or Whiteside), exactly the same way he went hard after Enes Kanter last summer.

He forced OKC to make Steven Adam's backup a max contract player. He currently makes as much as Russel Westbrook. They matched, but will be in serious luxury tax trouble if they hope to re-sign Durant and Westbrook. Given their history of going cheap, I think Olshey may have prevented a possible dynasty in OKC at the same time our guys will be in their prime. It was a great chess move - thinking several moves ahead.

If we strike out on Horford and Whiteside, look for him to force LAC's or TOR's hand.

BNM
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Neither team has matching options on those two centers and already have their starting centers locked up. You aren't really forcing their hand by offering Aldrich or Biyombo a huge contract. More likely you eat that contract and the contracts have a decent chance of being albatrosses.

An idea that I have heard and agree with would be to overpay guys on 1 or 2 year deals. So for example, instead of offering Biyombo a 4 year 60 million contract, offer him 2 years and 40 million. The idea is that you are overpaying him for the next two years but it doesn't matter as much because the cap is increasing, and their contracts come off the books the year that the cap is supposed to come back down so that they don't become burdens. For the player, it offers them some sort of assurance going forward while also allowing them to bet on themselves to an extent. And let's be honest, young players tend to be more risk seeking, especially if they're going somewhere where they are going to be gifted a starting position.

The bad thing about these types of contracts is that the team won't have bird rights when the contract expires. Although that may or may not be as important depending on what happens during the CBA negotiations in the next year.
 
Rastapopoulos said:


Sure we can afford it, but should we?
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Yeah, I'm really curious to know what people think of him after last night's game. Seems like lots of people were ready to sign him to a MAX after his 20+ rebounds the other night, but have they now swung back after a no-show?
 
I think there is a reason why, when asked about recruiting players to the team, Dame responded something about he's not the GM and he'll leave that to Olshey. He can't bond and create 'team' with the players, then turn around and advocate one of the them being replaced. As a leader, he can't afford to lose their trust. I don't believe we'll ever see Dame throw a teammate under the bus, or have it leaked that he asked for someone to be replaced. They are all his boys; until they're not -- and even then, they still are (i.e. Tim Frazier).
 
BBert said:
I think there is a reason why, when asked about recruiting players to the team, Dame responded something about he's not the GM and he'll leave that to Olshey. He can't bond and create 'team' with the players, then turn around and advocate one of the them being replaced. As a leader, he can't afford to lose their trust. I don't believe we'll ever see Dame throw a teammate under the bus, or have it leaked that he asked for someone to be replaced. They are all his boys; until they're not -- and even then, they still are (i.e. Tim Frazier).
Click to expand...

Great points and I concur. Dame just isnt that type of guy like an LBJ... Thats why I think, if he isnt yet, he will be the best leader in the NBA during his tenure.
 
Orion Bailey said:
Great points and I concur. Dame just isnt that type of guy like an LBJ... Thats why I think, if he isnt yet, he will be the best leader in the NBA during his tenure.
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When did LBJ say he wanted someone traded? Wiggins was a part of the team, but never was a part of the team.

Did he have instances where he wanted people traded? Honest question.

Or is this about him fleeing Cleveland?

Or all of it? :MARIS61:
 
Strenuus said:
When did LBJ say he wanted someone traded? Wiggins was a part of the team, but never was a part of the team.

Did he have instances where he wanted people traded? Honest question.

Or is this about him fleeing Cleveland?

Or all of it? :MARIS61:
Click to expand...

I'm not sure about trading, but there are clips of him publicly criticizing his teammates on the court, and that's not leadership. You praise in public, criticize in private.
 
Man.... it's amazing how much the playoffs can boost your value. Biyombo was not a big name before the postseason. He wasn't even starting.
 
Westbrook just provided a good example. It was reported in the paper this week that Westbrook went to his coach on the sidelines during a game and told the coach he needed to bench a teammate. The coach did. I'm sure the teammate feels great about it. Probably went out with Westbrook after the game and bought him drinks. I just don't see Dame doing that. He would certainly talk to a teammate personally, but he wouldn't throw him under the bus or humiliate him in that manner. Bad for the team chemistry.
 
BBert said:
Westbrook just provided a good example. It was reported in the paper this week that Westbrook went to his coach on the sidelines during a game and told the coach he needed to bench a teammate. The coach did. I'm sure the teammate feels great about it. Probably went out with Westbrook after the game and bought him drinks. I just don't see Dame doing that. He would certainly talk to a teammate personally, but he wouldn't throw him under the bus or humiliate him in that manner. Bad for the team chemistry.
Click to expand...

Yea but at the same time you have to think, when your a leader on a team, and you are in need of winning a game and you see that someone just isn't helping that at the moment, isn't it the right thing to do so that you better your chance at winning that game?
 
BBert said:
Westbrook just provided a good example. It was reported in the paper this week that Westbrook went to his coach on the sidelines during a game and told the coach he needed to bench a teammate. The coach did. I'm sure the teammate feels great about it. Probably went out with Westbrook after the game and bought him drinks. I just don't see Dame doing that. He would certainly talk to a teammate personally, but he wouldn't throw him under the bus or humiliate him in that manner. Bad for the team chemistry.
Click to expand...
Maybe - but it needed to be done. I have no problem with the incident, I just don't like that they made it public.
 
BBert said:
Westbrook just provided a good example. It was reported in the paper this week that Westbrook went to his coach on the sidelines during a game and told the coach he needed to bench a teammate. The coach did. I'm sure the teammate feels great about it. Probably went out with Westbrook after the game and bought him drinks. I just don't see Dame doing that. He would certainly talk to a teammate personally, but he wouldn't throw him under the bus or humiliate him in that manner. Bad for the team chemistry.
Click to expand...

And this is exactly why I think OKC is in trouble and may end up losing this series. They need a reliable third scorer and Kanter is their best option, by far. He's one of the most efficient low post scorers in the game. Just look up his regular season stats (4th in the league in FG%, 4th in ORtg, 6th in TS% and eFG%, etc.). Without his offense, Westbrook and Durant combined for 71 points last night, and they still lost by 9. They also miss Kanter's offensive rebounding. He led the entire league in ORB%, and it really wasn't close. Those ORBs are extra possessions, and given that OKC shoots lower percentages from both 2FG and 3FG range than GSW, those extra possessions are important.

Ibaka and Adams are both way better defensively than Kanter, but neither is a reliable 3rd scorer. Nor are Waiters or Roberson. Given GSWs explosive offense, Westbrook and Durant could both got for 40 and OKC could still lose. That actually seems to be GSW's game plan - let Russ and KD get their's and force somebody else to step up. Unless one of Adams, Ibaka, Waiters or Roberson steps up in Game 6, OKC may be in trouble.

I get that Kanter's defense sucks, but without his offense, they are often playing 2-5 on offense. Yeah, KD and Westbrook are both great scorers, but they can only do so much. Of all the players on OKC's roster, after Westbrook and Durant, the one the most likely to step up and have a good offensive game is Kanter. None of their other players can come close to matching his offensive output or efficiency.

I think that's the real problem here. When Westbrook tries to do too much, it hurts his team. He has a history of freezing out more efficient scoring teammates, including KD and Harden, with the game on the line. That has improved this year, under Donovan. Westbrook isn't freezing out KD the way he used to, but now he's dabbling in coaching and telling Donovan who to play and when to play them. Now, Kanter is barely playing and not getting touches when he does. And if the head coach decides he knows what's best for the team and decides to overrule the player-coach and play Kanter significant minutes, Westbrook is just the type of selfish prick that would freeze out Kanter just to make a point. I mean they guy spent years freezing out Durant because he wanted to play hero ball. He won't hesitate to freeze out Kanter in order to get Donovan to pull him.

OKC really needs to win Game 6. They don't want to go back to GSW for a Game 7. They need to play as a team and right now, they're not all on the same page. Their PG and 3rd best scorer definitely aren't on the same page. If they end up loosing this series, there is bound to be bad blood and finger pointing. Not good, given what they're paying Kanter moving forward and that they'll have to max out both Durant and Westbrook to keep them.

A leader brings his team together. This is why Dame is a leader and Westbrook is not.

BNM
 
Boob-No-More said:
And this is exactly why I think OKC is in trouble and may end up losing this series. They need a reliable third scorer and Kanter is their best option, by far. He's one of the most efficient low post scorers in the game. Just look up his regular season stats (4th in the league in FG%, 4th in ORtg, 6th in TS% and eFG%, etc.). Without his offense, Westbrook and Durant combined for 71 points last night, and they still lost by 9. They also miss Kanter's offensive rebounding. He led the entire league in ORB%, and it really wasn't close. Those ORBs are extra possessions, and given that OKC shoots lower percentages from both 2FG and 3FG range than GSW, those extra possessions are important.

Ibaka and Adams are both way better defensively than Kanter, but neither is a reliable 3rd scorer. Nor are Waiters or Roberson. Given GSWs explosive offense, Westbrook and Durant could both got for 40 and OKC could still lose. That actually seems to be GSW's game plan - let Russ and KD get their's and force somebody else to step up. Unless one of Adams, Ibaka, Waiters or Roberson steps up in Game 6, OKC may be in trouble.

I get that Kanter's defense sucks, but without his offense, they are often playing 2-5 on offense. Yeah, KD and Westbrook are both great scorers, but they can only do so much. Of all the players on OKC's roster, after Westbrook and Durant, the one the most likely to step up and have a good offensive game is Kanter. None of their other players can come close to matching his offensive output or efficiency.

I think that's the real problem here. When Westbrook tries to do too much, it hurts his team. He has a history of freezing out more efficient scoring teammates, including KD and Harden, with the game on the line. That has improved this year, under Donovan. Westbrook isn't freezing out KD the way he used to, but now he's dabbling in coaching and telling Donovan who to play and when to play them. Now, Kanter is barely playing and not getting touches when he does. And if the head coach decides he knows what's best for the team and decides to overrule the player-coach and play Kanter significant minutes, Westbrook is just the type of selfish prick that would freeze out Kanter just to make a point. I mean they guy spent years freezing out Durant because he wanted to play hero ball. He won't hesitate to freeze out Kanter in order to get Donovan to pull him.

OKC really needs to win Game 6. They don't want to go back to GSW for a Game 7. They need to play as a team and right now, they're not all on the same page. Their PG and 3rd best scorer definitely aren't on the same page. If they end up loosing this series, there is bound to be bad blood and finger pointing. Not good, given what they're paying Kanter moving forward and that they'll have to max out both Durant and Westbrook to keep them.

A leader brings his team together. This is why Dame is a leader and Westbrook is not.

BNM
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As much as I understand and agree about the premise of a third scorer and your view on Westbrook, we will see Saturday night, the return of OKC to the finals. We will NOT see... or HEAR... a muttering from the bay area snob fans...
GSW's dominating game is all but over.
 
Orion Bailey said:
As much as I understand and agree about the premise of a third scorer and your view on Westbrook, we will see Saturday night, the return of OKC to the finals. We will NOT see... or HEAR... a muttering from the bay area snob fans...
GSW's dominating game is all but over.
Click to expand...

Don't get me wrong. I want GSW to lose. Not because I like OKC, I just hate them less at this point.

But, I think Westbrook is playing with fire here. The payoffs are NOT the time to alienate an important teammate. A leader unifies his team. What Westbrook did, and the way he did it, is divisive. If he felt the need to say something about Kanter's defense, he should have said it to Donovan in private. Not during live action on national TV.

I'm not predicting OKC will lose the series. They still have a chance to close it out at home, but any rift among teammates, during the playoffs, is not a good thing.

BNM
 
Boob-No-More said:
Don't get me wrong. I want GSW to lose. Not because I like OKC, I just hate them less at this point.

But, I think Westbrook is playing with fire here. The payoffs are NOT the time to alienate an important teammate. A leader unifies his team. What Westbrook did, and the way he did it, is divisive. If he felt the need to say something about Kanter's defense, he should have said it to Donovan in private. Not during live action on national TV.

I'm not predicting OKC will lose the series. They still have a chance to close it out at home, but any rift among teammates, during the playoffs, is not a good thing.

BNM
Click to expand...

Oh, I absolutely agree with you and fully believe he is a long term cancer, but I dont think its detrimental in this series. I think they win game 6.. but long term? Will this go to Westbrooks head even more now that he sees he has the coach under his thumb? I think so... in the long term, but the effects will take a bit of time. longer than it will take for them to shut GSW down tomorrow.

Up until a week ago, I had no clue who I wanted to win.

Man I sure can thank DGreen for making that easier for me. :)
 
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