SteelBlaze1
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Great picture and my vote for best alongside BRoy. I just wish KP could make it happen.
Your Perfect Guard Opposite of Brandon Roy
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Great picture and my vote for best alongside BRoy. I just wish KP could make it happen.
Masbee
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Just like Brandon is a do everything guard - his best pairing is a PG that can do most things well. Those are very, very hard to find.
The Blazers could use a better defender at the point. A player that, like Blake, will keep the floor spread with long range shooting. And, that long range ability keeps this player involved in the offense when Brandon goes into iso mode. The Blazers could use a player that break the defense down and set-up other players. The Blazers could use a player that is better at running the break.
Roy's perfect match at PG from the past will - because I want it - be noted defenders - as well as bringing some of the other items from my checklist:
Scottie Pippen. Have to wait until he developed that 3 pt shot, which wasn't until he was 29 or 30. So, we are talking Prime Pippen. Pair the two of them up with a sweet shooting SF that mostly stays out of the way, and this would be a dream.
John Stockton. Jesus, dude was good. And he did EVERYTHING. Defend, Pass, Shoot. If we had the 2nd coming of Stockton paired up with Roy, we would be golden.
Chauncey Billups (the Detroit Years). Defense. Long distance shooting. Run the offense. Weakness was running the break and setting up other's for easy buckets. I was big on trying to pry Billups from Detroit when Dumars signalled he was shopping the team. That ship has sailed.
Right now there are no perfect fits. The closest current player?
Chris Paul. Decent defender. Outstanding creator. Needs to work on his outside shot. If he gets that, he would be the closest player to John Stockton that currently exists - not as good on defense, but a better penetrator and more explosive scorer.
After Paul, you start running into more and deeper problems with the PG's game. For example, Deron Williams would probably be 2nd best fit, but as well as Paul at needing to work on his long-ball, he isn't as good a defender. Tony Parker same complaints as Williams and Parker is more of a score first guy.
How in the heck do we get Chris Paul in a deal that makes sense for both teams? (on the assumption that Paul makes a demand to be moved)
Masbee
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Funny, I made my response to your OP before seeing this. I guess we agree that Stockton and Billups are the prototypes. Though I think Billups is a drop off to Stockton, who was much more of a creator than Billups and I think better defender of the PG position.
Don't forget Pippen though. Prime Pippen would have been sick!
Crimson the Cat
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Crimson the Cat
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If NO traded Paul, they should forfeit their franchise.
I still think I'd prefer Williams than Paul.
VanillaGorilla
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Crimson the Cat
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Aldridge or Oden and then their choice of two of the following: Bayless, Fernandez, Batum.
Worse case scenario is Aldridge, Fernandez, and Batum. Fuck. I might still do that.
Our big three would become Paul, Roy, and Oden with the following assets: Blake, Joel, Sergio, Bayless, Webster, Travis, Frye, Freeland, Koponen, a 1st round draft pick, three 2nd round draft picks, a traded player exception, and about $6M in cap space.
Crimson the Cat
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Great minds, right?
Yeah, I'm afraid if I mentally picture Pip with our current roster my brain will fry. Too much basketball goodness. Better not attempt it. I like my brain.
Natebishop3
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Paul is better at creating for big men. He mad Tyson Chandler viable.
Masbee
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You didn't say why though.
Williams is not an excellent 3 pt shooter, and he is not a good defender.
Masbee
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Out of all the young players this is the order I rate them as a future prospect:
Paul
Roy
Oden
Aldridge
Batum
Fernandez
Bayless
Webster
Sergio
So, in your proposal, we give them our 3rd, 4th and 5th best prospects, for their best.
Paul is a future Hall-of-Famer. You do that deal in a second.
N.O. would not do the deal, mainly because they have to deal with trying to extend and keep LaMarcus within the next year and they already have David West at the PF slot.
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"Why the heck would NOH give up CP3? They'd have to fold?!! That's never going to happen?"
Not saying that CP3 is exactly the same as a prime Baron Davis, but the last time George Shinn had financial issues and a 2-time All-Star PG who was 6th in the league in scoring and just signed a big contract, he traded him for Speedy Claxton and Dale Davis. Read that again.
Obviously I'm not in the loop, but I can think of multiple ways it could happen. It's unlikely, sure....but I can't believe anything has a 0% chance. Not with team and city economics the way they are, Shinn's well-known spendthriftness, and KP on our side.
And it wouldn't be just for "cap space". They'd get multiple young, cheap, good players and a high draft pick (say, #2 to #5...they'd probably like #2 if they want Rubio or #5 if they want BPA for a few million less in mandatory salary) to go along with the cap space. They took a shot spending for Chandler, Peja and Posey, that didn't work well for them....now they're hemorrhaging $$ and have only a couple things that other people want.
Something like:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=nkd6vf
MEM gets a bunch of players they've been rumored to like at various times on here... Rudy, Sergio, Joel and Travis. They also have to pick up Rasual Butler's 3.6M for next year, and get our trade exception and cash, so that's more than a wash. Their lineup next year would be:
Conley/RudyF/Mayo/Travis/Joel with Sergio, Gasol, Haddadi, Arthur, Rasual, and Buckner.
NOH tears it up. They give up CP3 and Peja, and get the #2, Bayless, Webster, and end up trading Peja's 28M over the next 2 years for Jaric and Darko's 22M. They can keep or waive (or trade) Blake for an extra 4M in savings. Change in salary for them on July 1? They go from having a payroll of 78M to 71M, saving them 14M in cash (7M + 7M lux tax), while having Darko and Daniels' 13M in expiring contracts to trade. They also can work a deal with OKC after July 1 to send Chandler and the rights to #2 for #3 and something nice and save up to another 12M more. They'd have Bayless/Webster/Posey/West/Thabeet with Julian Wright, Mo Pete and Antonio Daniels as "veterans".
Us? We have a lineup of CP3/Roy/Gay/LMA/Oden. We're a little light in backups, since we'll only have Kopo, Batum, Freeland and our draft picks. But that's a heck of a "consolidation", right? Something like Budinger at 24, Beaubois at 32, Claver at 38, Brockman at 55. And we'd still have MLE and BAE for "veterans".
CP3's PPP sucks to work with. But if we wait until after July 1, we don't have the contracts to get big-money players.
As far as the LMA for someone like Rondo or CP3 thoughts...while I severely feel the need for a good PG, there aren't any PF's in this draft that have even close to LMA's current ability level as an upside, aside from B. Griffin. And since we're not getting the #1 or #2 pick in a deal for a PG...
There's my 1%-chancer.
LameR
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If this was all for CP3 and a bad contract (Peja), I would say it has a very remote possibility of happening, but us getting Gay as well? If KP somehow pulled that off...I don't even know.
Crimson the Cat
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He's shown that he can shoot the long ball though. Last year was a tough one for Deron I think. That leg injury he suffered, while it didn't keep him from improving his PER, his shooting did derail, from what appeared to be, from the right tracks. He is more than capable though. His career 3-pt shooting percentage is still at 36% and the season before last he hit 40% of them. In our system, that relies heavily on the 3-point shot, I have no doubts that Deron would resemble the shooting touch from two seasons ago. The best CP3 has ever shot was 37%.
Both will improve their shooting, but I think Williams will always be better.
I disagree about Deron's defense. Again, last year was a bit of a down year from him with the injury, but even still, his size is huge, as he can guard both 1s and 2s. In the half-court his presence is better felt, and I do concede that he does have problems containing quick guards, but dammit there aren't many players, if any, that can contain quick guys like Aaron Brooks.
Here's an excerpt from Hollinger's scouting report:
As a defender Williams' size is a big help, as he is very good at defending post-up guards and can switch onto twos in a pinch. He's not as good at cutting off dribble penetration but he willingly takes charges, drawing 36 offensive fouls last season. He got some all-defense whispers a year ago and may get more recognition in this area in coming years, as prominent offensive players tend to do better in the voting for some reason.
Offensively, he doesn't usually beat defenders off straight drives but he has an amazing change of direction move to either side, often after a quick between-the-legs dribble, and his move from left to right in particular is a devastating one. He has good straight-line speed in transition and sees the floor extremely well, and is very good at pushing the ball up after a made basket.
Williams isn't an explosive finisher near the rim but he manages to clear himself for enough openings that he completes a high percentage of his drives; it helps that he's 6-foot-3 and strong enough to absorb contact on his way in. Williams is a good outside shooter, too, and one would like to see the 3-pointer become a bigger part of his arsenal than it's been the past two years.
Yes, this was written about his performance in the 2007-2008, but as we all know sometimes injuries take a toll on how productive a player can be.
I like big guards. I would take Williams over Paul for this team.