Zach Collins Defense

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Natebishop3

Natebishop3

Don't tread on me!
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Yes, another Zach Collins thread!

This is important though (If you want something to be encouraged about.)

Right now Collins is struggling mightily on offense. His PER is shit. His shooting percentage is in the toilet. HOWEVER, his defense has been exemplary, as in, best in the league level of good.

RealGM has advanced stats for summer league.
http://basketball.realgm.com/player/Zach-Collins/Summary/85659

Here are his averages so far:

3 blocks per game
2.5 steals per game
.32 DWS
71.5 DRtg
9.04 BLK%

He's doing this while playing 30 minutes per game and only averaging 3.5 fouls per game.

Where does this rank in the summer league? (and not just Vegas but ALL summer league)

#1 in blocks
#1 in DRtg
#8 in BLK%
#9 in DWS
#13 in steals

He might be stinking it up offensively, but defensively he's killing it, and that should be VERY encouraging.
 
Boob-No-More said:
Defense is so boring, Can we please get back to talking about how bad he sucks on offense?

BNM
Click to expand...

It's definitely hard to look past how bad he has been on offense...... but offense can be taught. Defense is so much about instincts. If I had to choose between the two, I would MUCH rather he be excelling on defense from the outset.
 
giphy.gif
 
This and this alone is why he's better than Butters and should NEVER be compared to him.

Saying Butters has good post D since we've seen it a few plays against Gasol and Cousins doesn't make him a post defensive stalwart.
 
Natebishop3 said:
It's definitely hard to look past how bad he has been on offense...... but offense can be taught. Defense is so much about instincts. If I had to choose between the two, I would MUCH rather he be excelling on defense from the outset.
Click to expand...

Defense is definitely harder to learn. Look at guys like Ben Wallace and Bruce Bowen - classic late bloomers that eventually became DPOY winners.

I'm not saying Collins is the next Big Ben, but I can't believe people are questioning the pick after two poor offensive showings in summer league. All we hear around here from the negative nancies is how bad our defense is. We finally draft a player that looks good on defense, and all we here from those exact same posters is about how bad his offense is.

Honestly, this place is so ridiculous sometimes, I swear of we drafted the next Michael Jordan and he was averaging 40 ppg in summer league, all we'd hear is how much of a ball hog he is and people calling him the next Jerryd Bayless.

BNM
 
So if a team needs a defensive backup center we could maybe trade him for a 2nd round pick.

#Winning
 
Active and annoying on the defensive end - like watching a young Joakim Noah clone.
 
If Zach can play good defense, protect the rim, rebound and hit free throws that is great. I suspect that part of the attraction was also his somewhat undercover passing ability. He seems like a good passer that would fit well into our offense. I like Vonleh, but Nurk, Swanigan and ZCo can all pass well and could really expand our offensive options.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
So if a team needs a defensive backup center we could maybe trade him for a 2nd round pick.

#Winning
Click to expand...

Why would we do that? A defensive back up center is one of our biggest needs. If that's ALL Collins ever becomes, he addresses a need.

Personally, I think he will become a lot more than that, but there are plenty of bigs taken in the lottery who never come close to even being a defensive back up center.

BNM
 
Boob-No-More said:
Why would we do that? A defensive back up center is one of our biggest needs. If that's ALL Collins ever becomes, he addresses a need.

Personally, I think he will become a lot more than that, but there are plenty of bigs taken in the lottery who never come close to even being a defensive back up center.

BNM
Click to expand...

Woooooooooooooooooooooooooosh

:devilwink:
 
We'd be happy to unload Meyers for a 2nd round draft pick.

What pick did we use to draft Meyers?

What pick did we use to draft Collins?
 
Y'all so mean to him, no wonder he has to add likes to his account to feel loved...
 
He's actually reminding me a lot of Batum so far in Summer League. Pretty bad on offense, but kind of under-the-radar good on defense. But the similarity with Batum doesn't end there.

You can see how you could just park Collins in the high post and let him catch/shoot if left wide open, or make the smart or quick pass. As fourth or fifth option in the Noah Vonleh role, even after two summer league games that you can see how Collins could be the better fit on offense.

Then you bring in the defensive side, and well.....

I remember reading the scouting reports on Lillard after the draft and how he was the best pick-and-roll guard in the draft, and thinking, "Yeah, that could definitely work."

Then I remember reading the reports and watching the film about Nurkic. A big guy who thrives in setting mean picks, can roll menacingly to the rim or pop if he wants, or pass if neither works. And I thought, "Yeah, that could definitely work." Could you ask for a better fit next to Dame?

Now you have a 7 footer with a thin, power forward-y like frame and quick feet and a defensive focus, who has NBA 3 point range, is a clever passer out of the high post, has spent a season playing with a really big center, and he doesn't seem to see himself as a primary scorer....and once again it just feels like it could work. Batum was never destined for superstardom, but he was definitely destined to fit. I'm starting to feel that way about Collins.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if, like Batum, training camp comes and suddenly this guy who didn't do much in summer league is dropped into a starting job.

Is it really that outlandish of an idea? Batum started 79 games as a rookie for a 54 win team. Seems like an obvious move now, but back then we'd been fucking around with youngsters Martel Webster and Travis Outlaw at Small Forward. Maybe history repeats itself, only at Power Forward and Vonleh and Butters get pushed aside for a guy with talent who actually fits.
 
mook said:
He's actually reminding me a lot of Batum so far in Summer League. Pretty bad on offense, but kind of under-the-radar good on defense. But the similarity with Batum doesn't end there.

You can see how you could just park Collins in the high post and let him catch/shoot if left wide open, or make the smart or quick pass. As fourth or fifth option in the Noah Vonleh role, even after two summer league games that you can see how Collins could be the better fit on offense.

Then you bring in the defensive side, and well.....

I remember reading the scouting reports on Lillard after the draft and how he was the best pick-and-roll guard in the draft, and thinking, "Yeah, that could definitely work."

Then I remember reading the reports and watching the film about Nurkic. A big guy who thrives in setting mean picks, can roll menacingly to the rim or pop if he wants, or pass if neither works. And I thought, "Yeah, that could definitely work." Could you ask for a better fit next to Dame?

Now you have a 7 footer with a thin, power forward-y like frame and quick feet and a defensive focus, who has NBA 3 point range, is a clever passer out of the high post, has spent a season playing with a really big center, and he doesn't seem to see himself as a primary scorer....and once again it just feels like it could work. Batum was never destined for superstardom, but he was definitely destined to fit. I'm starting to feel that way about Collins.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if, like Batum, training camp comes and suddenly this guy who didn't do much in summer league is dropped into a starting job.

Is it really that outlandish of an idea? Batum started 79 games as a rookie for a 54 win team. Seems like an obvious move now, but back then we'd been fucking around with youngsters Martel Webster and Travis Outlaw at Small Forward. Maybe history repeats itself, only at Power Forward and Vonleh and Butters get pushed aside for a guy with talent who actually fits.
Click to expand...

My only concern with starting him is that he's not going to rebound like Vonleh. Vonleh also has better handles and Post game. He can shoot too just needs to gain confidence.

I don't see him starting opening night.
 
dviss1 said:
My only concern with starting him is that he's not going to rebound like Vonleh. Vonleh also has better handles and Post game. He can shoot too just needs to gain confidence.

I don't see him starting opening night.
Click to expand...

Collins has a better post game. Vonleh's post game is awful. We haven't had a chance to see it yet. But, Collins has footwork and moves in the post better than 90% of NBA bigs.

At this point Vonleh might be a better man defender. But, Collins is way better of a rim protector.

I'd still rather start Vonleh at the beginning of the year and not just throw Collins to the wolves. What we've seen of him in SL is just a small little glimpse. Not many big guys can thrive in the chaos of SL. People shouldn't take much from it. Guard play you can take a little bit away from SL because they dominate the ball and you can see how they can run a team. But the lack of spacing, the hacking, the horrible guard play.....makes it impossible to evaluate bigs in SL.

Not sure why this is escaping some people. I was pretty certain that Collins would struggle in these games. I wasn't too surprised when he did, I also wasn't surprised by the reactions of people on this board when they cried into their pillow.
 
I'm starting to come around on the idea that Collins will play this season. Defense matters. We're not really in a position to sit the ones that play it, even rookies. And it's not like he's some stiff offensively either. He can shoot. He can score in the post. He's shown passing ability. The idea seems to be that only one of Collins and Swanigan will play, but I actually think both could get on the court. It's pretty much four guys for two, possibly three rotation spots; Collins, Swanigan, Vonleh, and Davis.
 
If you guys are expecting the two rookies to contribute this season, i believe you are setting yourself up for a let down. They won't beat out our vets, not going to happen.
 
Last edited:
HCP said:
If you guyas are expecting the two rookies to contribute this season, i believe you are setting yourself up for a let down. They won't beat out our vets, not going to happen.
Click to expand...

Ok terry.
 
HCP said:
What does this mean?
Click to expand...

Remember, Terry never plays rookies. Even tho the only rookie he's ever had that deserved and earned playing time was Damian (and he played a lot of minutes).
 
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