Zach Collins Defense

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

Yes, another Zach Collins thread!

This is important though (If you want something to be encouraged about.)

Right now Collins is struggling mightily on offense. His PER is shit. His shooting percentage is in the toilet. HOWEVER, his defense has been exemplary, as in, best in the league level of good.

RealGM has advanced stats for summer league.
http://basketball.realgm.com/player/Zach-Collins/Summary/85659

Here are his averages so far:

3 blocks per game
2.5 steals per game
.32 DWS
71.5 DRtg
9.04 BLK%

He's doing this while playing 30 minutes per game and only averaging 3.5 fouls per game.

Where does this rank in the summer league? (and not just Vegas but ALL summer league)

#1 in blocks
#1 in DRtg
#8 in BLK%
#9 in DWS
#13 in steals

He might be stinking it up offensively, but defensively he's killing it, and that should be VERY encouraging.

What does all of this have to do with @HCP?

 

[THE HCP]

Remember, Terry never plays rookies. Even tho the only rookie he's ever had that deserved and earned playing time was Damian (and he played a lot of minutes).

Gotcha. Pretty much my point. These two guys aren't going to beat out the vets.

 

[BonesJones]

What does this mean?

No one knows if they'll contribute or not except Terry (and even he likely doesn't know). You don't know, he doesn't know, I don't know... I think he's making fun of you for thinking you know, when only the coach could. That's my guess

 

[BonesJones]

Gotcha. Pretty much my point. These two guys aren't going to beat out the vets.

Remember, Terry never plays rookies. Even tho the only rookie he's ever had that deserved and earned playing time was Damian (and he played a lot of minutes).

Yet he's played Vonleh minutes he likely doesn't deserve. Show me one rookie that deserved playing time that didn't get it under Stotts.

If Biggie and Z-Co deserve and earn minutes, they'll play.

 

[THE HCP]

No one knows if they'll contribute or not except Terry (and even he likely doesn't know). You don't know, he doesn't know, I don't know... I think he's making fun of you for thinking you know, when only the coach could. That's my guess

It was just my opinion.

 

[THE HCP]

I had never seen either of these rookies play before we drafted them. But I swear on draft night and the next couple days this place was going bananas over Collins. Was that just the normal hype around a new player? We saw what happened when he went up against real men, not some kid from UofP. Wait til he goes up against solid NBA vets. I've......we've...... seen too many overhyped by fans type of players come thru the league and just disappear. This is a grown mans league and I think some forget. Sure I'd like these guys to be able to contribute, it is just tough for them to do.

 

[BonesJones]

It was just my opinion.

You said it with absolute certainty, which nobody is certain of how it'll play out with these two.

 

[MickZagger]

I had never seen either of these rookies play before we drafted them. But I swear on draft night and the next couple days this place was going bananas over Collins. Was that just the normal hype around a new player? We saw what happened when he went up against real men, not some kid from UofP. Wait til he goes up against solid NBA vets. I've......we've...... seen too many overhyped by fans type of players come thru the league and just disappear. This is a grown mans league and I think some forget. Sure I'd like these guys to be able to contribute, it is just tough for them to do.

His best play was in the final four. Whats with the U of P reference? You're a long time Blazer fan, you should know good players come from small schools. The list goes on and on of Blazer greats who did just that. Look at our backcourt as a perfect example.

 

[BonesJones]

I had never seen either of these rookies play before we drafted them. But I swear on draft night and the next couple days this place was going bananas over Collins. Was that just the normal hype around a new player? We saw what happened when he went up against real men, not some kid from UofP. Wait til he goes up against solid NBA vets. I've......we've...... seen too many overhyped by fans type of players come thru the league and just disappear. This is a grown mans league and I think some forget. Sure I'd like these guys to be able to contribute, it is just tough for them to do.

Yeah, he was the best defensive player against these "real men", and his offensive wasn't impressive because it translates to the NBA only if he has decent guards. He's not like Swanigan who will go get his own. He's the type of guy who will do well for himself and for the team by playing off of great guards.

 

[BonesJones]

His best play was in the final four. Whats with the U of P reference? You're a long time Blazer fan, you should know good players come from small schools. The list goes on and on of Blazer greats who did just that. Look at our backcourt as a perfect example.

Lmao. Didn't even get around to that. Great point. He's sleepin!

 

[THE HCP]

His best play was in the final four. Whats with the U of P reference? You're a long time Blazer fan, you should know good players come from small schools. The list goes on and on of Blazer greats who did just that. Look at our backcourt as a perfect example.

I hear you. I meant he playing against the Pilots just a few months ago.

 

[Scalma]

Remember, Terry never plays rookies. Even tho the only rookie he's ever had that deserved and earned playing time was Damian (and he played a lot of minutes).

This isn't really true either. What rookies did Stotts hold back? McCollum didn't play because he had an established player(s) ahead of him. Same with Crabbe. Layman saw rotational minutes last season early on after like two good showings in mop up duty. Davis was awful last year and Vonleh is still a project. I don't see any real roadblock for either Collins or Swanigan.

 

[Trackjack]

Right now Collins biggest hang up will be his strength. In summer league he did things I like on both ends. Yes he miss some shots but what NBA player don't miss shots. At first he was playing to fast instead letting the game come to him but when started to slow down he did some good things at both ends. Yes at first I don't think Stotts will throw them to the wolves. But in couple weeks Swanigan or Collins will get there chance in training camp.

 

[THE HCP]

This isn't really true either. What rookies did Stotts hold back? McCollum didn't play because he had an established player(s) ahead of him. Same with Crabbe. Layman saw rotational minutes last season early on after like two good showings in mop up duty. Davis was awful last year and Vonleh is still a project. I don't see any real roadblock for either Collins or Swanigan.

So you think these two ROOKIES will be regular rotational players? I honestly don't remember Layman getting regular minutes at any point of last season. He had a historic 1/4 of basketball in one game early and that was about it. Davis was injured unfortunately and Noah played great next to Nurk. You don't see any roadblocks?

 

[dviss1]

What does this mean?

It means just like we thought Batum looked the way he did in SL and then came out as the STARTER, that only the coach knows.

 

[THE HCP]

It means just like we thought Batum looked the way he did in SL and then came out as the STARTER, that only the coach knows.

What a great story that was! Just killed it in camp and BRoy fell in love with his game. Miss that guys game .

 

[blue9]

Gotcha. Pretty much my point. These two guys aren't going to beat out the vets.

If Davis was any better than average I'd agree with you. But, I don't know that you can even say he's average.
Is Vonleh a vet? If so, again, he's pretty good defensively but well below average on offense.
Meyers? LOL!
Aminu? LOL!

While it might be true that Collins/Swanigan can't beat these guys for a rotation spot, the bar is set pretty low and it shouldn't surprise anyone if they do. Literally all they need to do is be average on one end of the floor to earn minutes over the vets.

 

[THE HCP]

Trust me, I'm not saying our "vets" have anything locked down, it's just so rare to have rookies come in and contribute is all. Some on here, like with their win predictions, set the bar so high, i hate hearing them bitch when we don't reach those unrealistic goals.

 

[Boob-No-More]

So you think these two ROOKIES will be regular rotational players? I honestly don't remember Layman getting regular minutes at any point of last season. He had a historic 1/4 of basketball in one game early and that was about it. Davis was injured unfortunately and Noah played great next to Nurk. You don't see any roadblocks?

Meyers Leonard played over 1200 minutes as a rookie, with two incumbent veteran starters ahead of him in the rotation. I don't think either rookie will see much more than that, but I expect one will be in that range (most likely Swanigan) and the other (likely Collins) will be in the 800 minute range.

I don't think either rookie will be in the regular rotation at the beginning of the season. I think Terry will go with the prior status quo with Vonleh starting at the 4 and Ed Davis as the primary back up by man. Aminu will also see minutes as a back up 4.

But, that may change over the course of the season. I think by March 1, one, or possibly both, of the rookies will be part of the rotation, getting about 15 - 17 minutes a game at that point. They really only need to beat out Noah and Meyers for playing time.

If Ed Davis gets traded before the deadline, I expect both rookies to be part of the rotation. Of course trading Ed may hinge on how comfortable Terry is playing the rookies. Ed is an expiring contract that will have some trade value. So, if the rookies are ready to step up come late February, look for Ed to be moved to get us some help at the back up SG position.

BNM

 

[blue9]

Trust me, I'm not saying our "vets" have anything locked down, it's just so rare to have rookies come in and contribute is all. Some on here, like with their win predictions, set the bar so high, i hate hearing them bitch when we don't reach those unrealistic goals.

All I'm saying is that our vets would be lucky to have a role off the bench on a good team. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a d-league call-up that beat them out for a starting position.

 

[THE HCP]

All I'm saying is that our vets would be lucky to have a role off the bench on a good team. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a d-league call-up that beat them out for a starting position.

Can't argue with you on that.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Trust me, I'm not saying our "vets" have anything locked down, it's just so rare to have rookies come in and contribute is all. Some on here, like with their win predictions, set the bar so high, i hate hearing them bitch when we don't reach those unrealistic goals.

I would surmise (speaking only for myself) that I am high on Swanigan and Collins getting minutes this year for a few reasons:
1) No one currently projected in the PF/C rotation (Nurk, Leonard, Aminu, Davis, Vonleh) has shown an ability to either not be injured or not be effective for less than a handful of games. So there's likely opportunity coming, at some point.
2) Each does something that's not dependent on "adjusting to the league". Swanigan hustles and rebounds, which has been shown to be the one stat/measurable that actually translates well from college to NBA. Collins (as this thread shows) already shows an innate grasp of big-man D. Either should be able to be on the floor, especially against other backups, without doing too much damage.
3) While Collins was playing UP a year ago, he also way playing well in the tournament 5 months ago against players he'll be playing against this year, as well as playing every day in practice against an experienced 7-footer bigger than Nurk. I don't think the physicality of being in the NBA will hit him as hard as, say, Harry Giles.

Do I think either will be RoY? No. But if we turn 3 first rounders into 0 rotation players (and I don't mean like Patty Ice or Layman or the Victor Claver special), I'm looking at both Neil and Stotts for answers.

 

[Scalma]

So you think these two ROOKIES will be regular rotational players? I honestly don't remember Layman getting regular minutes at any point of last season. He had a historic 1/4 of basketball in one game early and that was about it. Davis was injured unfortunately and Noah played great next to Nurk. You don't see any roadblocks?

I wouldn't say I expect both guys to be in the rotation, that's obviously a stretch, but I do think the opportunity will be there, especially when the roadblocks are named Ed Davis and Noah Vonleh.

As for Layman, he saw 10+ minutes multiple times in oct/nov last season, so it kind of goes against the narrative that Stotts won't play rookies. Layman didn't capitalize on the opportunity, but I think it will be different with both Swanigan and Collins; superior players with less of a resistance in front of them on the depth chart.

 

[Trackjack]

The big question is who back up Nurk you got 4 players that will be competing for those minutes Collins Swanigan Leonard and Davis. 3 of those players also will battling for back up PF minutes behind Vonleh at the start of the season and there also Aminu that might play minutes there too. So can one these rookies break into the rotation I say yes they could. So the battle starts into 2 weeks.

 

[tlongII]

All I'm saying is that our vets would be lucky to have a role off the bench on a good team. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a d-league call-up that beat them out for a starting position.

This is the key. The fact is our vets in the front court just aren't very good. I am convinced Swanigan will get minutes immediately. Collins will take a while but he'll get there.

 

[Scalma]

The big question is who back up Nurk you got 4 players that will be competing for those minutes Collins Swanigan Leonard and Davis. 3 of those players also will battling for back up PF minutes behind Vonleh at the start of the season and there also Aminu that might play minutes there too. So can one these rookies break into the rotation I say yes they could. So the battle starts into 2 weeks.

I like Collins as Nurks backup unless Davis finds his form from two seasons ago. The good thing about this scenario is Collins played pretty much the same role last season at gonzaga. Will help with the transition.

 

[dviss1]

Everyone's basing their opinion on SL. Well, we saw that Caleb had subpar D. We lost the Championship because of his player going off.

Collins shows excellent D and we think he's gonna suck?

People need to post with the realization that there are 2 sides of the floor.

 

[Blazer4ever]

i didn't get to see him in SL but i have no doubt his defense is exemplery, he has very good basketball IQ and is great at defending the rim especially against smaller players going to the basket. He does need to at least be a factor on offense to earn minutes and his lack of physical strength make him not as good at defending the bigs. The first issue can be solved if he improves but also because he would be just the 4th or 5th option most of the time and the 2nd issue would take him getting stronger which could also help his offensive production

 

[Denny Crane]

I preface this post by saying I am a fan of Ed Davis. But...

Given his expiring deal, and re-signing him at a position of depth makes no fiscal sense, I would expect the rookies to get first crack at PT. Nurk will get a massive pay day if he has a good season as we expect. The rookie scal deals are where we need quality minutes.

It's also time to get Leonard serious PT at backup C, or we should cut him loose by whatever means. It's best for the team if he pans out - that's what I want to see.

Davis' contract should be easy to move by trade deadline, getting us under the LT. that's what Inexpect.

I think Brian is spot on, that the rookies will be able to hold their own against backups (at first).

I'm ready for basketball already!

 

[Scalma]

I just listened to Erik gundersen on a podcast previewing the blazers season and he's of the opinion that Davis could be the odd man out in the rotation. Said he's good in the locker room but expects the team to prefer other players ahead of him. Swanigan, Vonleh for example. Even included Leonard in that, idea being rebuilding his trade value. Said Davis is easy trade bait. Shedding his expiring would get the team below the luxury tax.

Here's the link to the rest, pretty good listen;

https://buff.ly/2eQt0Me