Zack Addy!

[tlongII]

Why not? What reasons do you have?

Are you asking why I said it is unnatural? The answer is obvious.

 

[julius]

Are you asking why I said it is unnatural? The answer is obvious.

Unnatural because they can't conceive children? Then what do you say to couples who are unable to have children? Or single people who adopt or have children? Oh, it's because a single straight person can have children?

What if someone who is a homosexual has a child naturally. Should that be outlawed because it's not "natural" because they're gay or lesbian?

I fail to see the logic in your comment. A lot of single parents raise children, and sexual preference plays very little in how good of a parent someone is. Most pedophiles (if not an overwhelming %) are straight men. I would gather a safe bet that most physically abusive people are straight too.

So, your belief that they shouldn't raise children is based on what?

Also, your comment that it's "unnatural" is patently false. Homosexuality appears in nature. Therefore, it's natural.

 

[tlongII]

I can think of a number of additional concrete reasons why I would not support gay couples adopting/raising children. I'll list a few below:

1. Because children learn about relationships from their parents, a child raised by a gay couple who is not him/herself gay would not have a good model for his or her future relationships.

2. A heterosexual child as a teen would not have an experienced adult with whom to discuss normal teenage issues such as dating, relationships, when to become sexually active vs. postponing it, birth control, etc.

3. In an area that does not readily accept gays and lesbians, the child might be socially stigmatized. In addition, if the adoptive parents were men, parents of the child's potential friends might subscribe to the common but erroneous belief that gays are likely child molesters, and forbid their child to associate with the adopted child.

4. Because gay marriage is not permitted in most places, and is in fact illegal in many places, there would be a lot of legal issues should one of the parents die. You can read about the case of Sharon Kowalski and Karen Tomberlin. In 1983, Sharon was paralyzed and suffered severe brain damage in an auto accident. Her lover and partner of ten years fought an eight year battle to gain custody of her and assume her care. Her parents had assumed custody and placed her in a nursing home, whereas Tomberlin wanted to care for her in the home they shared.

 

[Minstrel]

I'd like to see these "so-called" studies your referring to.

Results of social science research have failed to confirm any of these concerns about children of lesbian and gay parents (Patterson, 2000, 2004a; Perrin, 2002; Tasker, 1999). Research suggests that sexual identities (including gender identity, gender-role behavior, and sexual orientation) develop in much the same ways among children of lesbian mothers as they do among children of heterosexual parents (Patterson, 2004a). Studies of other aspects of personal development (including personality, self-concept, and conduct) similarly reveal few differences between children of lesbian mothers and children of heterosexual parents (Perrin, 2002; Stacey & Biblarz, 2001; Tasker, 1999). However, few data regarding these concerns are available for children of gay fathers (Patterson, 2004b). Evidence also suggests that children of lesbian and gay parents have normal social relationships with peers and adults (Patterson, 2000, 2004a; Perrin, 2002; Stacey & Biblarz, 2001; Tasker, 1999; Tasker & Golombok, 1997). The picture that emerges from research is one of general engagement in social life with peers, parents, family members, and friends. Fears about children of lesbian or gay parents being sexually abused by adults, ostracized by peers, or isolated in single-sex lesbian or gay communities have received no scientific support. Overall, results of research suggest that the development, adjustment, and well-being of children with lesbian and gay parents do not differ markedly from that of children with heterosexual parents.

http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbc/policy/parents.html

Existing research comparing lesbian and gay parents to heterosexual parents, and children of lesbian and gay parents to children of heterosexual parents, shows that common negative stereotypes are not supported (Patterson, 1995). Likewise, beliefs that lesbian and gay adults are unfit parents have no empirical foundation (American Psychological Association, 1995).

A growing body of scientific evidence demonstrates that children who grow up with one or two parents who are gay or lesbian fare as well in emotional, cognitive, social, and sexual functioning as do children whose parents are heterosexual. Evidence shows that children's optimal development is influenced more by the nature of the relationships and interactions within the family unit than by its particular structural form (Perrin, 2002).

http://www.cwla.org/programs/culture/glbtqposition.htm

I have no opposition to gay marriage as homosexuality is seen in many species as well as humans. Homosexuals raising their offspring is not however and is unnatural.

Homosexual parents are also found in other species.

Animals that live a completely homosexual life can also be found. This occurs especially among birds that will pair with one partner for life, which is the case with geese and ducks. Four to five percent of the couples are homosexual. Single females will lay eggs in a homosexual pair’s nest. It has been observced that the homosexual couple are often better at raising the young than heterosexual couples.

http://www.innovations-report.de/html/berichte/biowissenschaften_chemie/bericht-72574.html

 

[tlongII]

Unnatural because they can't conceive children? Then what do you say to couples who are unable to have children? Or single people who adopt or have children? Oh, it's because a single straight person can have children?

What if someone who is a homosexual has a child naturally. Should that be outlawed because it's not "natural" because they're gay or lesbian?

I fail to see the logic in your comment. A lot of single parents raise children, and sexual preference plays very little in how good of a parent someone is. Most pedophiles (if not an overwhelming %) are straight men. I would gather a safe bet that most physically abusive people are straight too.

So, your belief that they shouldn't raise children is based on what?

Also, your comment that it's "unnatural" is patently false. Homosexuality appears in nature. Therefore, it's natural.

It's unnatural because it doesn't happen in nature. There are no cases of homosexual partners in the animal kingdom raising their offspring because it's IMPOSSIBLE!

 

[crowTrobot]

I have no opposition to gay marriage as homosexuality is seen in many species as well as humans. Homosexuals raising their offspring is not however and is unnatural.

there are plenty of examples of young being actively raised by multiple females in a group. also the active mother/father scheme is only common among birds. in most higher mammals the biological father has little or no contact with offspring - so you could say the "natural" thing would be for human children to be raised by the mother while the father takes off

 

[julius]

I can think of a number of additional concrete reasons why I would not support gay couples adopting/raising children. I'll list a few below:

1. Because children learn about relationships from their parents, a child raised by a gay couple who is not him/herself gay would not have a good model for his or her future relationships.

I don't know where to start. What about straight parents who do not make a good model for future relationships? And how are homosexual relationships any different then straight ones (other than the kind of sexual activity that take place)? They aren't loving relationships between two people?

Do you know that homosexuals tend to have healthier and longer lasting relationships than straight people? Hell, 50% of marriages end in divorce. That's not exactly a good "model" for teens to use for their future relationships.

2. A heterosexual child as a teen would not have an experienced adult with whom to discuss normal teenage issues such as dating, relationships, when to become sexually active vs. postponing it, birth control, etc.

I don't know if that's actually a big issue. But also, you don't think homosexuals have issues about dating, relationships, when to become sexually active vs postponing it and safe sex?

3. In an area that does not readily accept gays and lesbians, the child might be socially stigmatized. In addition, if the adoptive parents were men, parents of the child's potential friends might subscribe to the common but erroneous belief that gays are likely child molesters, and forbid their child to associate with the adopted child.

So your reasons are basically your ignorance of the situation.

4. Because gay marriage is not permitted in most places, and is in fact illegal in many places, there would be a lot of legal issues should one of the parents die.

what about parents who don't get married?

You can read about the case of Sharon Kowalski and Karen Tomberlin. In 1983, Sharon was paralyzed and suffered severe brain damage in an auto accident. Her lover and partner of ten years fought an eight year battle to gain custody of her and assume her care. Her parents had assumed custody and placed her in a nursing home, whereas Tomberlin wanted to care for her in the home they shared.

So you think homosexuals shouldn't have kids (or be able to adopt) because of the law? That's a circular argument. It should be against the law because it's already against the law and should be against the law.

That seems to be argument to change the (stupid) law, not reinforce it.

You don't think these same issues are at the hands of "straight" parents and children? Who to talk to, who to go to for advice, what kind of advice to give, setting a good example of relationships?

Do you have kids?

 

[julius]

It's unnatural because it doesn't happen in nature. There are no cases of homosexual partners in the animal kingdom raising their offspring because it's IMPOSSIBLE!

There's also very little cases of animals in the animal kingdom getting together with their kids years later. In a lot of cases, animals once they reach a certain age, are out of the "parents" lives forever. And if necessary, they become an enemy to their own children.

Geese are a special case, but in most cases, animals don't hold any bond with other animals that they mate with or produce.

 

[tlongII]

Results of social science research have failed to confirm any of these concerns about children of lesbian and gay parents (Patterson, 2000, 2004a; Perrin, 2002; Tasker, 1999). Research suggests that sexual identities (including gender identity, gender-role behavior, and sexual orientation) develop in much the same ways among children of lesbian mothers as they do among children of heterosexual parents (Patterson, 2004a). Studies of other aspects of personal development (including personality, self-concept, and conduct) similarly reveal few differences between children of lesbian mothers and children of heterosexual parents (Perrin, 2002; Stacey & Biblarz, 2001; Tasker, 1999). However, few data regarding these concerns are available for children of gay fathers (Patterson, 2004b). Evidence also suggests that children of lesbian and gay parents have normal social relationships with peers and adults (Patterson, 2000, 2004a; Perrin, 2002; Stacey & Biblarz, 2001; Tasker, 1999; Tasker & Golombok, 1997). The picture that emerges from research is one of general engagement in social life with peers, parents, family members, and friends. Fears about children of lesbian or gay parents being sexually abused by adults, ostracized by peers, or isolated in single-sex lesbian or gay communities have received no scientific support. Overall, results of research suggest that the development, adjustment, and well-being of children with lesbian and gay parents do not differ markedly from that of children with heterosexual parents.

http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbc/policy/parents.html

Existing research comparing lesbian and gay parents to heterosexual parents, and children of lesbian and gay parents to children of heterosexual parents, shows that common negative stereotypes are not supported (Patterson, 1995). Likewise, beliefs that lesbian and gay adults are unfit parents have no empirical foundation (American Psychological Association, 1995).

A growing body of scientific evidence demonstrates that children who grow up with one or two parents who are gay or lesbian fare as well in emotional, cognitive, social, and sexual functioning as do children whose parents are heterosexual. Evidence shows that children's optimal development is influenced more by the nature of the relationships and interactions within the family unit than by its particular structural form (Perrin, 2002).

http://www.cwla.org/programs/culture/glbtqposition.htm



Homosexual parents are also found in other species.
Animals that live a completely homosexual life can also be found. This occurs especially among birds that will pair with one partner for life, which is the case with geese and ducks. Four to five percent of the couples are homosexual. Single females will lay eggs in a homosexual pair’s nest. It has been observced that the homosexual couple are often better at raising the young than heterosexual couples.

http://www.innovations-report.de/html/berichte/biowissenschaften_chemie/bericht-72574.html

Interesting. I'll have to give the subject more thought.

 

[bodyman5001]

I bet a study would show that homosexual male couples have a higher ability to program stereo equipment than heterosexual couples.

I also don't think that society as a whole has much to do with school curriculum, most people are like me and bitch about it when we hear that they are teaching something we don't agree with. Yet we never seem to care enough to look deeper.

I am pretty sure that I was never taught about homosexuality when I was in school in the seventies. I don't see what has changed in society that would make teaching about this needed.

 

[KingSpeed]

This is a crazy thread. Has nothing to do with Zack Addy.

 

[KingSpeed]

then next, pedophilla and beastiality get accepted into society!

Do you really think they're the same as homosexuality? That is offensive to me.

 

[KingSpeed]

No, because unlike gay marriage, pedophilia and beastiality aren't only between consenting adults.

Pedophilia has actually been shown to harm children, emotionally. Beastiality would fall under mistreatment of animals.

Legislating against harm to others is perfectly valid. Legislating "I don't personally like it, so you please don't do it" isn't.

Exactly.


Here's the thing. I'm gay. I'm not deviant. It's just the way I'm wired. I'm in a long term relationship. Been with the same guy for 11 years. Like many straight marriages, nowadays we don't hardly ever have sex but I'm still gay, whether or not I'm engaging in "homosexual activities" or not. What's your problem with me? What's your problem with my partner? What's your problem with our relationship? We love each other and we're life long companions. Honestly, if gay marriage is reinstated in CA, I'm not sure if I want us to get married or not, but it upsets me that I'm not allowed to. We really should though. I gotta hire lawyer actually and make out a will and deal with power of attorney and disposition of remains.

Any questions? I'm gay. In a relationship. Do you have questions about me? Do you wish to compare my life to that of a pedaphile or animal fucker? Do you wish to stop my partner Charles and I from giving a loving home to a child once we feel we are financially secure enough to give the child a proper home? Many kids are stuck in the foster system or raised by only a single mother or grandmother. We would not only give a child two loving parents but also 8 loving aunts, 7 loving uncles, and 2 loving grandparents. Problem?

If you have questions about me, please ask.

 

[KingSpeed]

Nonsense. Her "half-naked man" is a homosexual, and the picture was taken in order to arouse other homosexuals. Every guy on this board knows that, and that's why we're disgusted by it.

I'm not aroused at all. I don't think that man is necessarily gay. Straight guys go to the gym too.

 

[KingSpeed]

how do you know he is a homosexual? your gay-dar is strong!

hahahahahaha exactly!

 

[KingSpeed]

I've read a few of your posts, and I'm beginning to think that you are incapable of being able to string together two segments of logical thought.

So now you're comparing the love and affection between two men or women (it's not all about sex you know) with throwing shit at each other, or shooting each other up with heroin (an illegal substance)?

Answer this honestly. And not in a "I'm going to change the subject" way too.

Why do you honestly care if two women love each other, and have sexual contact between them? Or two men?

Does it really bother you that two men or two women want to live together and are in love?

It seems that you wish to make the activity of homosexuality illegal. So, if we make the sexual contact between two women and two men illegal, that rules out oral sex and anal sex. And I'm sure there are plenty of men and women who enjoy both oral sex and occasionally anal sex. If you want to make it so homosexuals can't adopt children (because of the "two parents" issue or the "not natural child rearing" issue), then I suggest that we make it so people who can't have children who are straight, not allowed to have children too. And if you're a single mom, you shouldn't be allowed to keep your child, or adopt one.

Why does it bother you so much? If you don't like anal sex with another man, don't have it. If you don't like oral sex between two men or two women, don't have it. If you don't like the act of sexual relations between gays or lesbians, don't have it.

If you try to equate the act between two consenting adults with drug use, or shit flingers or bestiality or child abuse/pedophilia, you are pretty ignorant.

If you want to say that it's because of biblical reasons, I hope to (your) God you have never had sex before marriage, or outside of marriage, or lusted over anyone.

Just seems like a waste of energy to me. Why does it matter to you if Nathan Lane and his boyfriend have sex?

Hahahahaha, funny. They don't much actually. Nathan is a friend of mine.

 

[GMJ]

This thread is awesome if you only read the first and last pages.

 

[BalancedMan]

I am against the objectification of peoples bodies...its just wrong

Really, so you'd take an intelligent and personable fat girl before I skinny pretty blond?

There's a biological imperative to wanting a girl who is cute and pretty (aka healthy), so we're prewired to it. Luckily, this is a bigger issue for girls than it is for guys (girls wear makeup and guys don't for a reason). That being said, I think keeping yourself in shape is important as well. Like that old commercial, a good body never goes out of style.

 

[Denny Crane]

What is up with her avatar? Um......free speech maybe......
Why does it bother you so much to see another man naked (or close to it)?
I am a straight man and see nothing terrible or disgusting about her avatar. I know this is an old issue that has followed her around for some time, dating back to the old site, but seriously, figure out why something like the beautiful body of another human being bothers you so much. There are plenty of avatars of naked girls littering the pages of every thread here. If it bothers you sooooo much, block it.

Also, it seems a bit hypocritical to be complaining about that avatar when yours features a picture that implies that a little kid got jizz in his eye. Um, which is more offensive?


prunetang

I agree. If we allow guys to have avatars of near naked girls, why should we care about girls having avatars of near naked guys?

 

[Denny Crane]

The comforting thing is, for all the resistance from religious bigots and "traditionalists," it's pretty obvious that they're doomed to end up on the wrong side of history. The trend within the country and the trend in the democratic world at large makes it very obvious that eventually gay marriage and adoption by gay couples will be standard part of American society.

A hundred years from now, people will look back on the people who oppose gay marriage in today's society with the same sense of baffled tragedy as people today look back on racists who opposed interracial marriage.

DOMA passed congress with a ton of Democratic votes, and was signed by Bill Clinton.

DOMA or something like it has passed in 30 states and is 30 for 30 (hasn't been defeated).

A long way to go to prove your "trend" theory.

Unfortunately.

 

[crandc]

Actually, the only thing I was "after" was letting people here know that a well known poster had been featured in an article. I hadn't realized that Zack Addy had a new handle.

Of course, I'm a lesbian, so I can't just do something for its own sake, it always has to have some nefarious purpose, right Talkhard?

BTW, the man in the avatar is straight. Someone's gaydar is on vacation.

 

[julius]

Hahahahaha, funny. They don't much actually. Nathan is a friend of mine.

All the more reason not to care!

 

[julius]

Exactly.


Here's the thing. I'm gay. I'm not deviant. It's just the way I'm wired. I'm in a long term relationship. Been with the same guy for 11 years. Like many straight marriages, nowadays we don't hardly ever have sex but I'm still gay, whether or not I'm engaging in "homosexual activities" or not. What's your problem with me? What's your problem with my partner? What's your problem with our relationship? We love each other and we're life long companions. Honestly, if gay marriage is reinstated in CA, I'm not sure if I want us to get married or not, but it upsets me that I'm not allowed to. We really should though. I gotta hire lawyer actually and make out a will and deal with power of attorney and disposition of remains.

Any questions? I'm gay. In a relationship. Do you have questions about me? Do you wish to compare my life to that of a pedaphile or animal fucker? Do you wish to stop my partner Charles and I from giving a loving home to a child once we feel we are financially secure enough to give the child a proper home? Many kids are stuck in the foster system or raised by only a single mother or grandmother. We would not only give a child two loving parents but also 8 loving aunts, 7 loving uncles, and 2 loving grandparents. Problem?

If you have questions about me, please ask.

Since when kids need loving parents, and relatives? They need a mom and a dad damnit!

 

[tlongII]

Since when kids need loving parents, and relatives? They need a mom and a dad damnit!

I think they need a loving mom and dad. I know you posted about some social science research that indicates there is no difference, but I'm not convinced yet. However, I will grant that a loving gay couple as parents is certainly better than an abusive home or a home in which they neglect the child. Because of this I have to change my stance on disallowing gay couples to adopt. I think I would have to support it now.

 

[DaRizzle]

Really, so you'd take an intelligent and personable fat girl before I skinny pretty blond?

There's a biological imperative to wanting a girl who is cute and pretty (aka healthy), so we're prewired to it. Luckily, this is a bigger issue for girls than it is for guys (girls wear makeup and guys don't for a reason). That being said, I think keeping yourself in shape is important as well. Like that old commercial, a good body never goes out of style.

Wait what? My comment was an obvious joke...It was wrapped around two asses!

 

[AgentDrazenPetrovic]

Do you really think they're the same as homosexuality? That is offensive to me.

what do you think I think?

I was being facetious. People who fuck dogs and kids are fucked up in the head beyond repair IMO. But you've got to realize that people thought of those groups as they thought about blacks and homosexuals in the past. As socities get more "progressive", they get more tolerant of what was previously fringe behavior. Look, there are even advocacy groups for man-boy love (NAMBLA) and in the ancient roman days, men had boys called catamites (credit: HS vocab) that were solely used for sexual perversion. Hot Female teachers are fucking more and more young 8th graders and high schoolers and generally society is kind of like "who gives a shit" about that......

 

[Rastapopoulos]

It doesn't. As long as they do it behind closed doors, and don't push it in my face, it's okay with me.

Is it just me, or is the above (including the name "Shoter") just oozing with homoeroticism? Reminds me of this Onion classic.

It's good to see that Talkhard has only changed his name (which also always struck me as needlessly lewd), not his tune.

 

[AgentDrazenPetrovic]

Also, your comment that it's "unnatural" is patently false. Homosexuality appears in nature. Therefore, it's natural.

Would you say animals having sex with different species is "natural"? According to your theory, if I can find a video of a dog having sex with a cat, then it would be "natural", right?

 

[crowTrobot]

This is a crazy thread. Has nothing to do with Zack Addy.

yeah, i think he's locked up in a mental hospital for helping a serial killer or something right now : )

 

[BenDavis503x]

Well who would have guessed it. *****************************************************

****************************

You actually thought that was appropriate? - The Joker