Zimmerman Case - Lightning Rod

[MARIS61]

If he had stabbed Trayvon to death would the right wingers be so adamant to defend him?

I'm no right winger, but he could beat him with a rock, stab him with a broken sprinkler head, or push his thumbs into his eye sockets. Once someone intends to physically attack you, the quicker you put an end to the threat the better. Hesitation when faced with a deadly threat usually results in death.

 

[MARIS61]

He should have been tried in the first place. There was the body of a dead boy. It's not the police's job to determine the truth, that role belongs to the courts. The cops not arresting him for 40 days was due to the fucked up law (it was a stand your ground case all along, even then).

So do you think all civil rights marches were just mobs, too? That's what this is.

It seems you were just as confused in the 60's as you are now. The civil rights marchers would have marched for the bi-racial Zimmerman when he was lynched Iin the media for simply defending himself from a racist murder attempt.

 

[Natebishop3]

Check this out and tell me what you think. I thought it was pretty interesting. Read through the whole thing though.

http://www.dlas.org/questions-zimmerman-verdict/

 

[PapaG]

There is not really any more outrage about this verdict. Protests were in the hundreds in most cities. This photo was the most interesting to me. Zimmerman was closer to his truck after ending the call than he was while on the phone. Seems to me he may have been just continuing on his duty that his neighbors elected him to do after talking with the cops, and St. Skittles may have jumped him?

 

[Natebishop3]

I just don't understand how you can claim racism when he went into business with a black guy, he dated black girls, and he voted for a black man..... just..... well..... that sounds like willful ignorance to me.

 

[RR7]

I just don't understand how you can claim racism when he went into business with a black guy, he dated black girls, and he voted for a black man..... just..... well..... that sounds like willful ignorance to me.

I'm not speaking specifically of him, but I think it's reasonable to assume someone can have black friends, know black people, not mind back people that they know, but still feel less trustful of a black person in a hood they see by their house. And possibly more suspicious than if it was a white person. Does it make someone a full blown racist? No, maybe not. But it'd be considered a "race issue" to an extent.

 

[DaLincolnJones]

I'm not speaking specifically of him, but I think it's reasonable to assume someone can have black friends, know black people, not mind back people that they know, but still feel less trustful of a black person in a hood they see by their house. And possibly more suspicious than if it was a white person. Does it make someone a full blown racist? No, maybe not. But it'd be considered a "race issue" to an extent.

hmmm

first thought was to call ya out.....but, it would be silly to say that you do not accept what your eyes see

 

[Natebishop3]

I'm not speaking specifically of him, but I think it's reasonable to assume someone can have black friends, know black people, not mind back people that they know, but still feel less trustful of a black person in a hood they see by their house. And possibly more suspicious than if it was a white person. Does it make someone a full blown racist? No, maybe not. But it'd be considered a "race issue" to an extent.

But seriously, explain to me how that's relevant when it was established that their neighborhood was having a serious problem with break ins related to black teens? Like.... recently. He saw a black teen that he did not recognize, he called the cops, he walked over to check it out, and then he went back to his truck. The kid jumped him, the kid had a history of fighting.

"3 weeks before the incident, Zimmerman spotted a young black man looking into the windows of a neighbor's house. He called the police and said "I don't know what he's doing. I don't want to approach him, personally." By the time the police finally arrived, the man was gone. 4 days later another house was burglarized. Witnesses said two of the robbers were black teenagers. One of them was soon caught with a laptop stolen from the house. He turned out to be the same man Zimmerman had previously reported looking in windows."

So if you were in his position, and there was a 6'0 17 year old on top of you beating the shit out of you, what would you do? I'm just curious. If I was in his position, and I was genuinely fearful that this kid was going to do serious irreparable damage to me (IE punching me in the face and slamming me into the pavement) I might be inclined to use my gun.

 

[RR7]

So if you were in his position, and there was a 6'0 17 year old on top of you beating the shit out of you, what would you do? I'm just curious. If I was in his position, and I was genuinely fearful that this kid was going to do serious irreparable damage to me (IE punching me in the face and slamming me into the pavement) I might be inclined to use my gun.

What I, or he, would do after underneath the kid is irrelevant to your initial question and my somewhat response.

 

[STOMP]

Just to make it an even 1K.

maybe you should give yourself a high five... or maybe cry yourself to sleep again because no one cares

STOMP

 

[Natebishop3]

What I, or he, would do after underneath the kid is irrelevant to your initial question and my somewhat response.

I already addressed your comment though. I was just asking you a question.

Why do you think it's a race issue for Zimmerman? They said that they'd had a rash of break in's that were attributed to black teens. They had caught black teens after breaking into a house 3 weeks before the incident. So are you going to completely disregard that information when you're on the lookout for suspicious people? He was part of the neighborhood watch that his neighborhood elected him to take charge of.

Explain to me where the wrong doing is:

They've had break-ins attributed to black teens for like a year, and as recently as three weeks.
He sees a black teen that he does not know in his neighborhood.
He calls the police and checks to see where the teen goes but loses sight of him.

I don't see anything wrong with any of that.

So if you had recently had break-ins in your neighborhood, as recently as three weeks ago, and they were black teens. You wouldn't think someone was suspicious if you'd never seen them before and they were walking around your neighborhood at night with their hood up?

 

[RR7]

I already said I wasn't speaking specifically of him, just that simply saying well he has black friends doesn't automatically disqualify one's ability to be a racist, or, at the least, still treat people of different races differently.

 

[Natebishop3]

I already said I wasn't speaking specifically of him, just that simply saying well he has black friends doesn't automatically disqualify one's ability to be a racist, or, at the least, still treat people of different races differently.

Do you think that can be attributed to the way society portrays thuggish black kids with baggy clothes, or mexican teens with tattoos? We do the same thing with white kids. There's the jock, there's the nerd, there's the cheerleader. We have perceived notions of archetypes, but I don't know if it's race specific. There's just thuggish kids, and I've seen plenty of white kids who fall under the same category.

I wonder if Zimmerman would have called the cops if he'd seen a white kid, dressed the same way as Martin? Or if he'd seen a black kid, dressed like a super nerd, would he have called?

 

[STOMP]

I already addressed your comment though. I was just asking you a question.

Why do you think it's a race issue for Zimmerman? They said that they'd had a rash of break in's that were attributed to black teens. They had caught black teens after breaking into a house 3 weeks before the incident. So are you going to completely disregard that information when you're on the lookout for suspicious people? He was part of the neighborhood watch that his neighborhood elected him to take charge of.

Good grief, please question where ever you are gathering your info/opinion from. Cowboy George was the first volunteer neighborhood watch coordinator for the Twin Lakes community. He took a course on his own initiative and then basically appointed himself the position.

here's the vid from testimony of the President of the Homeowner's Association testifying in this case... pay attention when the defense asks him if a neighborhood watch position was needed

[video=youtube;_IyemCLeLzo]

having done some research, I question what sort of crime wave you've referring to. Besides the attention brought by a certain neighborhood watch coordinator reporting daily to the police on jaywalking etc, the crime rates are well under the state average.

http://www.areavibes.com/twin+lakes-fl/crime/

STOMP

 

[Natebishop3]

Good grief, please question where ever you are gathering your info/opinion from. Cowboy George was the first volunteer neighborhood watch coordinator for the Twin Lakes community. He took a course on his own initiative and then basically appointed himself the position.

here's the vid from testimony of the President of the Homeowner's Association testifying in this case... pay attention when the defense asks him if a neighborhood watch position was needed

[video=youtube;_IyemCLeLzo]

having done some research, I question what sort of crime wave you've referring to. Besides the attention brought by a certain neighborhood watch coordinator reporting daily to the police on jaywalking etc, the crime rates are well under the state average.

http://www.areavibes.com/twin+lakes-fl/crime/

STOMP

At least eight burglaries were reported within Twin Lakes in the 14 months prior to the Trayvon Martin shooting, according to the Sanford Police Department. Yet in a series of interviews, Twin Lakes residents said dozens of reports of attempted break-ins and would-be burglars casing homes had created an atmosphere of growing fear in the neighborhood.

In several of the incidents, witnesses identified the suspects to police as young black men. Twin Lakes is about 50 percent white, with an African-American and Hispanic population of about 20 percent each, roughly similar to the surrounding city of Sanford, according to U.S. Census data.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/25/us-usa-florida-shooting-zimmerman-idUSBRE83O18H20120425

Reuters?

 

[STOMP]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/25/us-usa-florida-shooting-zimmerman-idUSBRE83O18H20120425

Reuters?

so your link says there was a crime wave... mine features just stats showing Twin Lakes crime rate was less then half of Florida's average. Your link claims the homeowners association came to George asking him to start the neighborhood watch. How likely does it seem that this group would approach some random renter with no experience in law enforcement to play volunteer cop in their community suffering a crime wave that (according to data) was less then half of the states average? It certainly runs directly counter to the sworn testimony of the President of the homeowner's association who stated George aggressively pursued this never held before position on his own. Certainly there is misinformation available on most any issue including this one. But the President of the Twin Lakes homeowner's association sworn testimony was made months after your speculative article, so which to believe?

Your link also says that he carried a concealed weapon against the directives he agreed to when he accepted the position... at least they got that part right.

STOMP

 

[maxiep]

It's this kind of shit I hate: http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/201...mearing-pro-zimmerman-group-with-racist-sign/

I've seen this tactic on both sides, where someone who disagrees with the view of a rally wears a sign saying something awful to smear that rally. People should be comfortable enough in their own position not to need to resort to such things.

 

[Denny Crane]

At least eight burglaries were reported within Twin Lakes in the 14 months prior to the Trayvon Martin shooting, according to the Sanford Police Department. Yet in a series of interviews, Twin Lakes residents said dozens of reports of attempted break-ins and would-be burglars casing homes had created an atmosphere of growing fear in the neighborhood.

In several of the incidents, witnesses identified the suspects to police as young black men. Twin Lakes is about 50 percent white, with an African-American and Hispanic population of about 20 percent each, roughly similar to the surrounding city of Sanford, according to U.S. Census data.

Nah. No reason for racial profiling at all.

 

[oldguy]

Yeah. If a few black kids are involved in spree of breaking into houses in the recent past, they should be sure to target Asians, Native Americans, Latinos and white kids. That'll get it stopped.

Go Blazers

 

[Denny Crane]

Yeah. If a few black kids are involved in spree of breaking into houses in the recent past, they should be sure to target Asians, Native Americans, Latinos and white kids. That'll get it stopped.

Go Blazers

Ready! Profile! Aim! Fire!

Point blank, so they don't get away.

 

[maxiep]

If I had to guess, it was likely his attire and mannerisms that Zimmerman profiled, rather than his skin color.

 

[DaLincolnJones]

Ready! Profile! Aim! Fire!

Point blank, so they don't get away.

OK, so when did "profile" become a bad word? In many situations, being able to read a situation, is a survival skill. Heck, there are may areas I would not walk the block unless I was comfortable with the body language of those around.

Are we so damn dumb that we are to ignore what we see and what we hear all based upon some half assed idea that to reconize ANY differences, is being a racist..

 

[RoyToy]

But seriously, explain to me how that's relevant when it was established that their neighborhood was having a serious problem with break ins related to black teens? Like.... recently. He saw a black teen that he did not recognize, he called the cops, he walked over to check it out, and then he went back to his truck. The kid jumped him, the kid had a history of fighting.

"3 weeks before the incident, Zimmerman spotted a young black man looking into the windows of a neighbor's house. He called the police and said "I don't know what he's doing. I don't want to approach him, personally." By the time the police finally arrived, the man was gone. 4 days later another house was burglarized. Witnesses said two of the robbers were black teenagers. One of them was soon caught with a laptop stolen from the house. He turned out to be the same man Zimmerman had previously reported looking in windows."

So if you were in his position, and there was a 6'0 17 year old on top of you beating the shit out of you, what would you do? I'm just curious. If I was in his position, and I was genuinely fearful that this kid was going to do serious irreparable damage to me (IE punching me in the face and slamming me into the pavement) I might be inclined to use my gun.

Zimmerman has a history of fighting the cops and his ex. Real noble.

He's also the only one that had a criminal record.

Trayvon is black, though, so he must be so mean grrrrrrrr

 

[Denny Crane]

OK, so when did "profile" become a bad word? In many situations, being able to read a situation, is a survival skill. Heck, there are may areas I would not walk the block unless I was comfortable with the body language of those around.

Are we so damn dumb that we are to ignore what we see and what we hear all based upon some half assed idea that to reconize ANY differences, is being a racist..

Profiling is OK if you have a very good reason to. "Store robbed by black man, be on the lookout. He's wearing a plaid shirt." So pay attention to black guys.

Profiling is not OK if you have no reason to. "Black kid talking on the phone to his girl, after going to the store for a soda and candy."

 

[DaLincolnJones]

Profiling is OK if you have a very good reason to. "Store robbed by black man, be on the lookout. He's wearing a plaid shirt." So pay attention to black guys.

Profiling is not OK if you have no reason to. "Black kid talking on the phone to his girl, after going to the store for a soda and candy."

once again, circumstance dictates reason, Denny. Gated community, in the several that I have lived in, everyone knows who their neighbors are..who belongs,and who does not..

 

[Natebishop3]

Profiling is OK if you have a very good reason to. "Store robbed by black man, be on the lookout. He's wearing a plaid shirt." So pay attention to black guys.

Profiling is not OK if you have no reason to. "Black kid talking on the phone to his girl, after going to the store for a soda and candy."

But you JUST said that profiling was okay when "store robbed by black man", but it's not okay when "houses robbed by black teens, be on the lookout".... ?

Zimmerman knew that there had been a number of robberies committed by black teens. He saw a black teen he did not recognize walking through the neighborhood, he called 911 and tried to see where the kid went. I really don't see anything wrong with that.

The question in judgement lies in whether lethal force was necessary, but quite frankly we let the cops off all the time with much less call for lethal force. Martin was supposedly on top of Zimmerman, beating him up. That's way worse than some of the shootings that police have had. Where are the protests for those?

 

[Masbee]

Profiling is OK if you have a very good reason to. "Store robbed by black man, be on the lookout. He's wearing a plaid shirt." So pay attention to black guys.

Profiling is not OK if you have no reason to. "Black kid talking on the phone to his girl, after going to the store for a soda and candy."

Yet another in a long line of silly posts.

You can't possibly be serious with shit like this, right?

 

[Denny Crane]

But you JUST said that profiling was okay when "store robbed by black man", but it's not okay when "houses robbed by black teens, be on the lookout".... ?

Zimmerman knew that there had been a number of robberies committed by black teens. He saw a black teen he did not recognize walking through the neighborhood, he called 911 and tried to see where the kid went. I really don't see anything wrong with that.

The question in judgement lies in whether lethal force was necessary, but quite frankly we let the cops off all the time with much less call for lethal force. Martin was supposedly on top of Zimmerman, beating him up. That's way worse than some of the shootings that police have had. Where are the protests for those?

House wasn't JUST robbed. Otherwise cops would be stopping black people driving down the street for no good reason other than there was a house robbed some time ago by a black person. Oops, the already do!

 

[Denny Crane]

Yet another in a long line of silly posts.

You can't possibly be serious with shit like this, right?

You awe me with your brilliance.

Green font so you can tell my true meaning.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

But you JUST said that profiling was okay when "store robbed by black man", but it's not okay when "houses robbed by black teens, be on the lookout".... ?

Zimmerman knew that there had been a number of robberies committed by black teens. He saw a black teen he did not recognize walking through the neighborhood, he called 911 and tried to see where the kid went. I really don't see anything wrong with that.

The question in judgement lies in whether lethal force was necessary, but quite frankly we let the cops off all the time with much less call for lethal force. Martin was supposedly on top of Zimmerman, beating him up. That's way worse than some of the shootings that police have had. Where are the protests for those?

Hate to jump into this . . . I agree Nate that I don't think Zimmerman did anything real wrong or damaging as you described (earlier reports, sees unfamiliar black teen, calls 911). But you stopped there twice saying you don't see what he did wrong. What about after that when 911 told him to stay put but he decided to follow Martin, contrary to what 911 told him to do.

My concern with this case is wouldn't it have been better for Martin to be packing heat (from Martin's perspective). He brought his fists to what he perceived as a fight and lost to a gun. Had Martin had a gun and felt his life was threatened by Zimmerman, could he have stood his ground, shot and claimed self defense?