Zion NBA Trade Value

[tlongII]

I wouldn't trade Nurk for him. Not even now while he's injured.

 

[e_blazer]

I remember the discussions about what other teams would have been willing to give the Blazers for the #1 pick in the Oden draft.

Man, I wish KP would have taken one of those offers.

 

[Minstrel]

I remember the discussions about what other teams would have been willing to give the Blazers for the #1 pick in the Oden draft.

Man, I wish KP would have taken one of those offers.

Well, I mean, with full hindsight, I'd rather he just drafted Kevin Durant.

 

[e_blazer]

Well, I mean, with full hindsight, I'd rather he just drafted Kevin Durant.

Sure, that too.

My point is that even seemingly sure-fire picks sometimes don’t work out. Giving up proven stars for guys who haven’t played a minute at the NBA level is an inherently risky proposition.

 

[PCmor7]

Well, I mean, with full hindsight, I'd rather he just drafted Kevin Durant.

Ideal would have been somehow convincing the Sonics to trade up that one spot, get Durant and then whatever else.

I still think, at the time, Oden was the right pick. I think few NBA people who were being honest would say otherwise.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Jordan wasn't considered the no-doubt top prospect. Probably, he should have been, but the league still considered big men more important. Olajuwon was the big prospect in the draft--the coin flip was "for Olajuwon."

You forgot Sam...

 

[Minstrel]

You forgot Sam...

How so? Bowie was the guy the team that lost the coin flip took. I said the coin flip was basically considered for the right to select Olajuwon...that's how locked in he was as the top prospect in that draft.

 

[Minstrel]

Sure, that too.

My point is that even seemingly sure-fire picks sometimes don’t work out. Giving up proven stars for guys who haven’t played a minute at the NBA level is an inherently risky proposition.

There's certainly a risk. There's also a reward too. If that "sure-fire" prospect pans out (and of the ones I can recall since Olajuwon, the only one that didn't pan out was Greg Oden), you have a franchise superstar and extremely cheap salaries.

 

[BlayZa]

regardless of how great zion looks vs the college kids, coming into the NBA with that type of game he's not going to have the same level of ownership imo.

I think he mostly reminds me of a larry johnson, big nate robinson, etc

he's 6-7 which is a tall SG, avg SF or tweener PF. he definitely has the explosiveness currently the rely purely on youth and power to push his 130kg around, but his game will need to mature and develop at a quicker pace than his raw athletic ability normalises.

he could have a very good 5-7yrs which could help a lot of teams, but i know people are calling him a generational talent, i just dont see it being likely as of yet. hes gonna have some highlights for sure, and if he ends up with NY he's going to get the run of the team and the city, but unless they recruit hard they aint going to be doing jack shit that matters.

this early, no way id trade Dame, Trae etc for him.

i can tell you one thing tho, as far as hobby collectability goes, the dude is gonna be thru the roof with RC hype and there will be HUGE prices paid by speculators. The hobby had a massive bump this season with Lulu getting so much love and Trae too.

 

[H.C.]

Arenas went in on Zion a couple days ago.

“OK, how about this: We see 27 and 14, but how did you actually get that? Did you post somebody up in college? Did you sit here with the left hand grab it, turn and face, get them in and dunk it? No? You got 12 points on fast break,” Arenas said. “You got 12 points sitting here [standing on the wing], you know, waiting for another player to do something and then you come in with the tomahawk. So when I say you dominated, your stats are dominating, but are you? At 6-6 power forward, which, you’re undersized, you’re 285. Sounds amazing, sounds great. But in reality, if I say well, he’s Westbrook’s height but he’s Shaq’s rookie weight, everybody’s like ooh, that’s not, ooh. Because that’s what he is. 6-6 285, you haven’t posted up at all. You didn’t post up in high school, it’s the lazy post up [simulates a lazy post up]. You know, you’re sitting here, because before all you would just have to do is just jump high, drop step and try to dunk on everybody. So you never learned the skill of backing down, two dribbles, none of it. When you go to the next level, what position do you play?

“So you have this great phenom player that has no true skill,” Arenas said. “And that’s what I said: You can dominate but not dominate. Because you’re going to go to another level where they’re going to make you a three. Do you know how to come off of pin-downs? Do you know how to run baseline curls? Do you pick and roll, pick and pop? No? You’re just Blake Griffining it. You know, you’re Blake Griffining it, waiting for track and field and you run in and dunk it. When I look at stuff like that it’s like, he’s going to train that kid one day and he’s going to sit there scratching his head, like, you’re going to be the No. 1 pick and I’m struggling with how you can’t do a majority of the stuff that other players can.”

I'm not sure I agree with this take, but I do love the shot at Blake Griffin.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

How so? Bowie was the guy the team that lost the coin flip took. I said the coin flip was basically considered for the right to select Olajuwon...that's how locked in he was as the top prospect in that draft.

The Coin Flip should've been for who got Hakeem and who Got Jordan, instead, we made it who got Hakeem and who got Bowie. It was an attempt at a joke, a bad joke I admit .

 

[PCmor7]

There's certainly a risk. There's also a reward too. If that "sure-fire" prospect pans out (and of the ones I can recall since Olajuwon, the only one that didn't pan out was Greg Oden), you have a franchise superstar and extremely cheap salaries.

What if he only turns out to be a Chris Webber/Elton Brand-level star? Is he a major disappointment then because of the enormous hype?

God forbid he turns out to be only Derrick Coleman level ...

 

[PCmor7]

Arenas went in on Zion a couple days ago.


I'm not sure I agree with this take, but I do love the shot at Blake Griffin.

Arenas echoed a lot of my questions ... although I might have called it "Kevin Love-ing." There is such a thing as empty stats, and the context of how they are put up is important.

 

[Minstrel]

What if he only turns out to be a Chris Webber/Elton Brand-level star? Is he a major disappointment then because of the enormous hype?

Well, I think Webber was a lot better than Brand. Either level would be "disappointing" relative to his expectations, but Webber would still be a generally good outcome--he was a pretty special player. I'd say Brand would be a pretty disappointing outcome, but at least the team that got him would still get quite a bit of value.

That's the nice thing about such great prospects--they can fall short of expectations and still have room to provide a ton of value. Unless injuries wash them out entirely, like Oden.

 

[PCmor7]

Well, I think Webber was a lot better than Brand. Either level would be "disappointing" relative to his expectations, but Webber would still be a generally good outcome--he was a pretty special player. I'd say Brand would be a pretty disappointing outcome, but at least the team that got him would still get quite a bit of value.

That's the nice thing about such great prospects--they can fall short of expectations and still have room to provide a ton of value. Unless injuries wash them out entirely, like Oden.

Funny thing about perceptions. Elton Brand averaged 20 ppg six of his first eight years with a high of 24.7. Shot better than 50 percent from the field five of his first eight years. Averaged a double-double his first five years. Averaged more assists than turnovers six of his first seven years, which I find pretty impressive for a guy 6-8, 275.

Then injuries derailed him.

But look at those dimensions and numbers and man, who else who played college ball at Duke do they remind you of ...?

 

[Minstrel]

Funny thing about perceptions. Elton Brand averaged 20 ppg six of his first eight years with a high of 24.7. Shot better than 50 percent from the field five of his first eight years. Averaged a double-double his first five years. Averaged more assists than turnovers six of his first seven years, which I find pretty impressive for a guy 6-8, 275.

I'm not saying Brand wasn't a really good player--but I don't think he was a Hall of Fame caliber talent. While Brand was a competent passer, Webber was one of the best passing big men ever, in addition to being a great scorer. Brand scored a decent amount, but he largely didn't command double-teams while Webber did.

If Williamson was merely a very good player, like Brand, I think that would be undershooting his expectations a ton. But even then, he'd be giving his drafting team a lot of value. Again, the value of such a good prospect is that even a lot of their below median projections are valuable.

 

[H.C.]

I'm not saying Brand wasn't a really good player--but I don't think he was a Hall of Fame caliber talent. While Brand was a competent passer, Webber was one of the best passing big men ever, in addition to being a great scorer. Brand scored a decent amount, but he largely didn't command double-teams while Webber did.

If Williamson was merely a very good player, like Brand, I think that would be undershooting his expectations a ton. But even then, he'd be giving his drafting team a lot of value. Again, the value of such a good prospect is that even a lot of their below median projections are valuable.

I think if Brand came out today, he'd be a surefire HoF player.
Just he came out at a time where the league was rolling in top generational talent at the 4 position. Made it hard to stand out when the best 4 of all time is in the league. Along with KG/Dirk.
It didn't help that he was on the worst franchise of that decade.
If Brand was coming out this year I think you'd see his game develop into a better Aldridge.

I haven't watched Zion play, so I can't say if he's elton brand or not.

 

[PCmor7]

I'm not saying Brand wasn't a really good player--but I don't think he was a Hall of Fame caliber talent. While Brand was a competent passer, Webber was one of the best passing big men ever, in addition to being a great scorer. Brand scored a decent amount, but he largely didn't command double-teams while Webber did.

If Williamson was merely a very good player, like Brand, I think that would be undershooting his expectations a ton. But even then, he'd be giving his drafting team a lot of value. Again, the value of such a good prospect is that even a lot of their below median projections are valuable.

I think Brand commanded double-teams just as much if not more than Webber. He was, like Zion, a load in the post. He was a more efficient scorer and a better rebounder than Webber when he was healthy. And Webber was terrific, don't get me wrong, but he was a four who shot well under 50 percent from the floor for his career, IIRC.

 

[stampedehero]

Phoenix or NYK will get him and he would be permanent due to his skills and the greedy organization that markets him.

 

[Mediocre Man]

God damn attention whore.

Not a "personal insult" because I didn't mention anyone by name. Had I you would

Know who I was talking about
I'd mention their name
No sense hiding it
Get it out there
Send the message
Proceed with the name
Everyone would know
Each would find out
Did I say too much

 

[handiman]

I don't think I've seen anyone mention the player Zion most reminds me of: Shawn Kemp. Kemp was a couple inches taller, but came into the league with a similar [limited] skill set. Once he developed a reliable mid-range game, he was one of the more dominant players. Not generational, but capable of carrying a team to pretty good heights.

In terms of Zion's trade value, the question would be, how much do you give up for someone of Kemp's caliber?

 

[PCmor7]

How about Barkley? I think that's another good comparison.

 

[BonesJones]

Arenas went in on Zion a couple days ago.


I'm not sure I agree with this take, but I do love the shot at Blake Griffin.

And then you look at how polished Ja Morant is.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

God damn attention whore.

Not a "personal insult" because I didn't mention anyone by name. Had I you would

Know who I was talking about
I'd mention their name
No sense hiding it
Get it out there
Send the message
Proceed with the name
Everyone would know
Each would find out
Did I say too much

Well Im confused...

 

[PCmor7]

Well Im confused...

Just presume it's about me. I always do ....

 

[handiman]

How about Barkley? I think that's another good comparison.

I don't see it. Barkley was much more skilled, and less physically dominant. I know some people will question that second part, but look at how he fared against Karl Malone. Barkley couldn't bully someone Malone's (aka Zion's) size.

 

[PCmor7]

I don't see it. Barkley was much more skilled, and less physically dominant. I know some people will question that second part, but look at how he fared against Karl Malone. Barkley couldn't bully someone Malone's (aka Zion's) size.

Malone was 6-10. Zion's 6-6. Barkley was about 6-5, probably 250, 260. If you watched Barkley at Auburn, getting rebounds and dribbling coast-to-coast and dunking over guys like Sam Bowie and Mel Turpin, I think you'd be very much reminded of Zion.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Well Im confused...

Think acrostic

 

[BigGameDamian]

If HCP apologizes for being a dick and is nicer to me.

You obviously didn't see the public appreciation thread he made about you a week ago.

 

[PCmor7]

Think acrostic

Yeah, the sound does come across pretty good in here ....