Zucc or St. Louis

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kreidertime

kreidertime

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Doesn't seem like St. Louis is interested in returning for less. No progress on a new contract. That being said. If you took all emotion out of it and it was just business. It makes no sense to keep a 39 year old over a 27 year old value wise. Sather must not include any more no trade clauses. These guys aren't taking discounts to stay here for the most part. Boyle said he left more money on the table. Too bad. Sign elsewhere if you don't like it. It's not like he's making a big difference.

Brassard, Girardi and Staal all got more money and more years than I thought. I see no reason to give any of these guys a no trade clause.
 
I am not sure where you are getting your info from, but I haven't seen anything that says MSL isn't okay with taking less. Maybe he is and maybe he isn't, but I haven't seen anything either way yet.

If all things were equal, of course you keep Zucc, but if Zucc wants 4-4.5 and MSL takes 3 or low 3's, I think MSL would be the answer.

Either way I do think the answer is to only bring 1 back, and do so at max low to mid 4's for Zucc OR low to mid 3's for MSL. That's how I view it.

I also think Hags will be back in the mid to upper 2's (I would not give him over 3 mill per now). Stepan around 6 mill or so...maybe low 6's.
 
It was reported that there was no progress on Zucc's or MSL's contract. To me, it's pretty obvious that MSL doesn't want to take less. Honestly, I would not offer MSL more than 2 years at 2.5. His game is slowing down quite a bit now. It had to. He's almost 40.
 
I agree. MSL needs to go into the low 3's at most, otherwise we cannot bring him back. I still think he takes that. Maybe a 2.5 mill paycut from 5.6 cap hit to a 3.1 cap hit. Cannot afford to have him in the upper 3's.

And I still say only 1 of MSL and Zucc should be back. If Zucc says yeah I'll take 4.2 per, then it should be him. If he wants 4.5 + then we need to walk from him as well. I like Zucc a lot, but the guy has had one good season...that's all really. He's on pace for 12 goals and 42 points right now. Now maybe I will feel differently in 3 or 4 months if he ends the season strongly and has a great playoff run, but right now no shot can he get more than low 4's per given what he is doing this season. One 19 goal 59 point season doesn't equal a 4.5 or more per cap hit long term IMO.
 
36 points in 47 games, 2nd on the team in goal scored (14)...leader in the locker room....
vs
24 points in 45 games, 7 goals scored....

why would St Louis look at a salary reduction?
Zucc does not deserve a raise. His play is not as good as last year where he got a 2 million dollar raise.

If I had to choose one over the other, and especially since one will look for a long term commitment, id go with St Louis
 
Great question...and here is the answer Al.

If he wants to stay a Ranger he takes less because we cannot afford more. If he doesn't, and that is certainly his right to not take less, then he will sign elsewhere for more money...no harm no foul.

My guess is considering he wanted to only be a Ranger, he has made a lot of money in his career, and his desire to win above all else now he will stay here for less money. I have always thought he would end up in the low 3's somewhere...maybe 3.4 or so tops.

And if not, okay thanks for the two good years Marty, we move on.
 
where are you pulling this information from? reported from where? link. prove it. You guys are on drugs thinking MSL is worth no more then 3 per year. guys gonna average 60+ points probably every year til he retires. The new model NHL is perfect for a player of his skill set. this isnt even a question and insider reports state that MSL loves being here in NY and is likely to sign one year deals til he's ready to retire. I would give him 2 years 10 million ins a heart beat. There isn't anything else out there and players like dubi are getting 4.5, he's our second best scorer and you guys think 3-3.4 is all he's worth? you're all on crack.

Once again, chuck, and is dump krider time? Anyways

you guys are setting ultimatums for these players like if zuc doesnt take X amount let him walk. WHAT ELSE IS OUT THERE TO REPLACE HIM? and for what price?!!?


I agree with bid daddy al. MSL deserves every penny he makes. durable solid player who's taylor made for this New NHL

NOT TO MENTION. Boyle has been non existant thus far on our POWER PLAY. and MSL is a huge reason why we are actually legitimate on the PP. have you seen their league stats?

6th in GPP
4th in GAA
11th on the PP
13th on PK.


Unheard of with ranger teams from the past 20 years. AV is the best coach in the NHL, this team knows what to do and execs from the West are scared of the rangers.

BTW, point of comparison with the ISLES.

4th in GOALS PER GAME
22nd in GAA
12th in PP
30th in PK
 
Wrong Nova. We aren't making ultimatums. The salary cap is. There is no point paying a 39 year old guy 4+ million rather than a 27 year old in Zucc. I like MSL but if he doesn't take a ton less to stay here, then he can retire or move on. The Rangers don't have cap room.
 
Also, St. Louis is no longer worth every penny he gets. This is a business and St. Louis doesn't do a lot for your team in other areas when he's not putting up points. Right now he has 36 points in 48 games which shows a big time decline. So, if you are thinking with your head, you don't pay a guy with that production who isn't elite defensively, physical or a great PK player, a ton of money. It's stupid.
 
He isn't here to play on the pk. And from what I understand the cap is going up. Right now MSL makes 5 million a year. I do not believe that number is a far cry from what he's worth. look around the NHL.

Gaborik - 6.75 for another 3 seasons and he's on pace for 52 points.
Carters making 7 million a year for another 4 years and his point production is much less the MSL.
iginla - 5.5 for another 3 seasons and he's on pace for 54 points.

how about alex semin, 7 million a season for another 4 seasons. guy has 1 goal.

at the end of the day a point per game is not going to happen with MSL. but he's going to produce 50-65 points maybe 70 with the right amount of PP time. he's a big reason why our power play is better then it's been in years. he isn't expected to play the PK. but he's still fast as hell, a vocal leader in the locker room and i don't see why even 4 million plus incentives is is absurd. i like zuc but he took a gamble on a one year deal and he's on pace for 15 less points. giving him a 3 year deal at 12 million is very fair. The rangers are a great team because they are well rounded. if you are putting up 45-65 points as a ranger you are probably top 3 in scoring for the team. they can and should resign both. you are not going to get a better deal then bringing someone like MSL back here on one year deals til he retires. minimal risk meanwhile the kings have 19 million tied up on gabby, brown(7 mil per WTF) and carter for another 4 seasons
 
and please tell me, what UFA is out there next season. can someone give me a list of like the top 40 UFA's? it'll help our discussion as the season goes on


and again, MSL is putting up the same numbers as derek brassard. and what does brass make? no ones talking 4-5 year deals here for MSL. but a two year deal is a risk worth taking. the guy is a steady point producing hockey player. love splaying here, great leadership with our younger players and he's one less person AV has to worry about when going over fundamentals of professional hockey when the younger guys like duclair make their way up. thats what makes a hockey team good. when coaches can allocate their time to the players of the future and not have to worry about guys like MSL
 
oh one more thing, MSL #1 in goals, #2 in assist on the pp #1 in points. reason our PP is 11th in nhl
 
You don't get it do you Nova. It's kind of cute in a way that you don't understand...if I was talking I would talk real slow so you get it.

It is about the cap as dump mentioned. We cannot afford to pay MSL over 5 mill again and bring Hags back, and Zucc back, and give Step his raise, and what about Moore and Miller, and Staal is getting a raise.

So you act as if we are saying MSL stinks so don't give him any money. NO...we are saying he will be 40, isn't as good as he used to he (which is logical at almost 40), and most importantly we cannot afford to give him that much money under the cap. So he needs to take a cut into the low 3's for us to keep him, otherwise we cannot afford him.

Right now MSL is on pace for 24 goals and 61 points. Certainly not bad, but 0 points in the last 4 games. 0 goals in the last 8 games. Going to be 40 in 4 months. Two years ago in 48 games he had 17 goals and 60 points. This year in 48 games he has 14 goals and 36 points. Now different team, different style, but again he is getting older.

Bottom line is we cannot afford to have a 40 year old guy making over 5 mill per on a multi year deal. If MSL wants that, AWESOME go get it somewhere, but it cannot be here. We need him in the low to worst case mid 3's (like 3.4 tops) or else we have to let him walk at 40. Otherwise it kills our cap.
 
Nova and Al are speaking like MSL's agent. Chuck and I are looking at it like a GM. Bottom line is that with the cap, they can't bring back St. Louis unless he takes a big pay cut. Of course, Nova would trade Stepan for Thornton which is the dumbest thing I've seen on this board in ages.
 
is it really cute? you have 5,000 messages on a fuckin message board chuck. with all that time sitting your ass in front of a computer I'm assuming you can lay out exactly how much room we have going into the off season, who is our RFA and UFA as well as the projected cap space going into the following season.

Also dump if you read my new topic that wasn't my idea.

So back to you two GM's, because lord knows that real GM's rest on the message boards of their favorite teams.

Hags makes 2.4 million, hag is overpaid as it is and should not be getting a raise.
Step does not deserve more then 5 million. his shot sucks, he has no snap shot or slap shot and has a terrible one timer.
zucs DOES NOT deserve a raise. if he does make more, it should be anything more then 3.8 million a season which is only 300,000 more then he makes right now.

John moore can take a hike if he doesn't want to accept a raise to 1.5 million. which is 700,000 more then he makes now. we have plenty of d men who are ready to join this team if he thinks his consistently pinching and getting caught ass is worth more then 1,5 million
staal makes 300,000 more then his cap hit this season.
and jt miller should get a solid 1.2 million per season. the kid doesn't even have a permanent spot in our lineup and your talking as if he is going to be getting 3 million dollar raise next season. so lets break it down.

Hags - nothing. but lets say and even 3 making it .6mil raise
step - 1.2 mil raise
zuc. - NOTHING but for arguement sake. .5 mil raise
moore. .7 mil raise
miller - .4 mil raise
staal - .3 mil raise

so thats..3.7 million in raises. oh man where are we going to get that from?!!
and since you play GM and clearly text eachother to begin you day of discussing the rangers on a message board of 20 people. maybe you can tell me what the salary cap is projected to be next season. and maybe you can tell me what you think each player is worth or going to get. and do you mind informing me if you ever played hockey, coached and understand simple fundamentals that play a part in a player getting a significant raise as opposed to a loyalty raise.






so GM's. best buddies. whats the cap situation looking like. since I"m MSL's agent and all
 
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Wow, you are angry bro...you should see someone about that...LOL.

There is so much wrong with your post I won't even waste my time. All I will say is you do realize Staal already signed his extension and will be making over 1.7 mill more per season right...LOL. My guess is no since you said .3 mill raise.

And if you think Stepan is signing for only 4.2 mill per, we very much disagree...unless you are signing him for 1 or 2 years only and then want to pay him more as a UFA soon. The play with Step is give him around 6 or so for 5 years at least. That is the smart play IMO.

Lastly, you act as if dump and I are saying MSL can only get 3.2 period and no one will pay him...NOPE. Someone would pay him more, all we are saying is if he wants to stay a Ranger, something that he has said he wants, he has to take less due to the cap. That is all fella.
 
Stepan is getting 6 million easy. There is no debate about it. My guess is 6 years, 36 million. They will lock him up until 30 as they should. I haven't read anything but one line of this last few posts where he called me an a-hole. LOL. I mean, his ideas are so bad he sounds like a druggy who has followed soccer his entire life.
 
i would take a short contract with MSL over an extended one for MZA. interesting that after his big raise his numbers have gone back to pre raise figures. now if you have the question who would you rather have...2 out of the three....id take Hags and MSL
 
Not crazy Al, I could see you saying Hags and MSL (on a shorter deal) and let Zucc walk. I don't think all 3 will be back. I am thinking 2 of 3 only. And I get that...prefer that actually.
 
I don't think we should pay MSL 5 mill again though. 2 years 6.5 mill or something like that.
 
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