2008 GM Draft 1 Peer Evaluation Thread

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (L @ Aug 5 2008, 01:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Jason Collins:
3.4
7.5 for his career
but collins net PER from the center position was -12.5, and from PF

Collins is a dumbass.

Collins is a dumbass.

Collins is a dumbass.</div>

Don't forget his 1.9 hands rating!
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 5 2008, 01:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The stats do measure his boneheaded plays.

Bad passes are boneheaded plays. His assists/48 minutes wouldn't be so great if he didn't make good decisions.</div>

Wrong, pace has a huge influence on that. Also should look at Assist to turnover ratio

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>His opponents' PER would be terrible if he made boneheaded plays and let them score on him.</div>

Most of his bonehead plays on defense result in other players scoring because of the chain reaction they create on defense.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>His +/- wouldn't be positive if the cumulative result of all these anecdotal boneheaded plays were costly at all (and you think they would be).</div>

No, he is a talented player that is able to do well despite his boneheaded plays. If he didn't make the boneheaded plays, he'd already have a large contract this summer.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (L @ Aug 4 2008, 10:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Jason Collins:
3.4
7.5 for his career
but collins net PER from the center position was -12.5, and from PF

Collins is a dumbass.

Collins is a dumbass.

Collins is a dumbass.</div>

Yep. To this day, I do not fathom how anyone ever thought he was a good basketball player - or didn't realize he's one of the worst (in my lifetime) to lace up gym shoes.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Aug 4 2008, 10:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 5 2008, 01:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The stats do measure his boneheaded plays.

Bad passes are boneheaded plays. His assists/48 minutes wouldn't be so great if he didn't make good decisions.</div>

Wrong, pace has a huge influence on that. Also should look at Assist to turnover ratio

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>His opponents' PER would be terrible if he made boneheaded plays and let them score on him.</div>

Most of his bonehead plays on defense result in other players scoring because of the chain reaction they create on defense.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>His +/- wouldn't be positive if the cumulative result of all these anecdotal boneheaded plays were costly at all (and you think they would be).</div>

No, he is a talented player that is able to do well despite his boneheaded plays. If he didn't make the boneheaded plays, he'd already have a large contract this summer.
</div>

By that logic, maybe if he sneezed funny on the bench, the chain reaction would lose the game for his team.

Sheesh.

Every player makes boneheaded plays. Kobe pulls up for 3 pointers 11 seconds into the clock.

See how great anecdotal evidence is?
 
It's amazing how you confuse talent with intelligence.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 5 2008, 01:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JCB @ Aug 4 2008, 10:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Assists are heavily factored in the "hands rating" statistic (thanks to KC for pointing that out). Ray Allen's is that low because he is a shooter, not a passer. It's not the best indicator of "decision making."</div>

Smith's a shooter too. He scores 2 points every 3 minutes, which is a phenomenal scoring rate. He must be making those decisions well. I pointed out that in 38 MPG, he would likely average close to 4 APG, which is also phenomenal for a SG; does that speak to his ability to find open men for a scoring chance? If so, what does that say about his decision making?</div>

He would also average 3 TO's in 38 MPG. Hardly taking care of the ball and quite high for a 2 guard. That's nearly as high as Kidd who makes a ton of TO's because he takes a bunch of risks and tries to make passes others don't even dream about it.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (L @ Aug 4 2008, 10:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>It's amazing how you confuse talent with intelligence.</div>

I don't confuse the two.

Tyrus Thomas has tons of talent, but it doesn't show in the numbers.

He has so much talent, some idiot traded LeMarcus Aldridge for him.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 5 2008, 01:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>http://www.82games.com/0708/07DEN7C.HTM

His PER at SG is 20.9. He played 29% of all of Denver's available minutes at the SG position.</div>

If he was playing 38 MPG, he wouldn't be playing all of them at SG so that is meaningless

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>PROVE +/- has no correlation to decision making. You offer NOTHING in the form of support for your argument, which makes it not much of a case for your POV at all.</div>

I don't have to prove 1+1=2 to state it as fact. You are the one offering 1+1=3 as an explanation. +/- has to do with impact on the court. No one is taking the position that JR Smith doesn't make a positive impact on the court.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Same for the rest of your post. Except, you got the .8 SPG wrong. That's .8 SPG per 19 minutes. The 1.6 SPG per 38 minutes would be 5th in the league.</div>

Can't logically assume a straight line increase like that with that big of an increase in minutes. JR played more MPG the season before and his SPG was still .8.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 5 2008, 01:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (L @ Aug 4 2008, 10:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Jason Collins:
3.4
7.5 for his career
but collins net PER from the center position was -12.5, and from PF

Collins is a dumbass.

Collins is a dumbass.

Collins is a dumbass.</div>

Yep. To this day, I do not fathom how anyone ever thought he was a good basketball player - or didn't realize he's one of the worst (in my lifetime) to lace up gym shoes.
</div>

Since you like stats as objective measures, you should read what Dan Rosenbaum calculated about his defense a few seasons ago.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 5 2008, 01:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Why is the hand rating objective? Because an objective statistician counts measurable boneheaded plays and the result is the hands rating.</div>

Then why is there a decimal.
 
http://www.82games.com/rosenbaum3.htm

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Jason Collins is a consistently great defender; I don’t remember ever hearing him discussed as an elite defender in this league, but only a select few players have been more effective defensively than he has been over the past three seasons.</div>
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 5 2008, 01:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (L @ Aug 4 2008, 10:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>It's amazing how you confuse talent with intelligence.</div>

I don't confuse the two.

Tyrus Thomas has tons of talent, but it doesn't show in the numbers.

He has so much talent, some idiot traded LeMarcus Aldridge for him.
</div>


Now you see this is humor.

14.69-Thomas

18.56-Aldridge


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny crane)</div><div class='quotemain'>It just so happens that the stat pages confirm what I see with my eyes.</div>
 
C: Brad Miller
PF: Elton Brand
SF: Bruce Bowen
SG: Corey Maggette
PG: Mo Williams

i know i need another scorer off the bench, but other than that hows my starting lineup
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (syc514 @ Aug 6 2008, 12:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>C: Brad Miller
PF: Elton Brand
SF: Bruce Bowen
SG: Corey Maggette
PG: Mo Williams

i know i need another scorer off the bench, but other than that hows my starting lineup</div>


It's ight, a little better version of the Clips I guess
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (syc514 @ Aug 6 2008, 03:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>C: Brad Miller
PF: Elton Brand
SF: Bruce Bowen
SG: Corey Maggette
PG: Mo Williams

i know i need another scorer off the bench, but other than that hows my starting lineup</div>


A low seeded playoff team.

Mo doesnt distrubute, corey is a good scorer but not an all-star calliber scorer. Bruce is all D almost no Offense.

Elton is coming back from an injury so he would be the ? of the team. If he is able to put up 20 10, I guess your team is going to be fine but if he is streaky, your backcourt wont be enough.

Brad Miller is on the decline but is still one of the best passing big men out there, i like his mid-range game as well.

What is lacking, is a player who shows he has a killer instinct and who should be leading the team?


Also Maggs Mo Elton have limited playoff experience, Bowen and MAYBE Miller are the guys with enough experience.

IMO, a scoring big to backup Elton if anything happens, vetern leadership and a energy guy.


but so far I will rate it 6.5/10
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (syc514 @ Aug 6 2008, 03:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>C: Brad Miller
PF: Elton Brand
SF: Bruce Bowen
SG: Corey Maggette
PG: Mo Williams

i know i need another scorer off the bench, but other than that hows my starting lineup</div>

You have a terrific frontcourt to run your offense through and guards who don't fit that style at all.

The fact that you think the next thing you need is a scorer is not a great sign.

Brand is a real superstar, and that alone makes your team pretty good so far - especially for where you drafted.
 
How's my starting lineup:

PG: Gerry McNamara
SG: Billy Edelin
SF: Joe Johnson
PF: Dayshaun Wright
C: Dwight Howard
 
PG - Rajon Rondo
SG - Randy Foye
SF - Kevin Durant
PF - LaMarcus Aldridge
C- Andrew Bogut
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dino33 @ Aug 6 2008, 10:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>comments on my team??:


Nash
Manu
Battier
_____
Ilgauskus</div>

I like how your team is built to win now, and you are following that.

Great backcourt, Battier is a great role player, and Ilgauskus, even though could just shut down at any time, is a presence inside.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid Chocolate @ Aug 6 2008, 09:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>PG - Rajon Rondo
SG - Randy Foye
SF - Kevin Durant
PF - LaMarcus Aldridge
C- Andrew Bogut</div>




I thought he was a PG...
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Claud @ Aug 6 2008, 11:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid Chocolate @ Aug 6 2008, 09:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>PG - Rajon Rondo
SG - Randy Foye
SF - Kevin Durant
PF - LaMarcus Aldridge
C- Andrew Bogut</div>




I thought he was a PG...
</div>

He played SG in college, and as far as I know has played SG (or combo guard) in the NBA. He is perfectly capable of playing SG.
 
Foye played SG at Nova, and was converted into a PG to play in Minny. He's a combo guard, to the truest sense.
 
Foye is a combo guard. I really like KC's team so far. It may not win many games right away, but it has a terrific mix of young players that all complement each other and contribute different things to the court. Bogut, Aldridge, and Durant is a fantastic young frontcourt. Bogut and Aldridge are already on the verge of becoming big time players. It won't be too long before that team becomes a top team.
 
The Barneys

C:
PF: KG
SF: Artest
SG: SJax
PG: Stuckey

So far, it is a big lineup with a lot of interchangeable parts. With the passing of KG, Artest and SJax, I didn't need a high APG PG and Stuckey can be a difference maker.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Aug 6 2008, 11:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The Barneys

C:
PF: KG
SF: Artest
SG: SJax
PG: Stuckey

So far, it is a big lineup with a lot of interchangeable parts. With the passing of KG, Artest and SJax, I didn't need a high APG PG and Stuckey can be a difference maker.</div>


I dont wana be involved in fight with your team.
 
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