Zombie 2012 NBA Draft (5 Viewers)

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Alright, yallz. I'm out til later. Someone else can watch teh twitterz.

Oh.... And when the fuck is MM back?
 
BrianFromWA said:
Wroten, and it's not close. The guy is basically a 6'6 Rondo if he never improves his shot at all. At 18, he's got some time to grow.
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A 6'6" Rondo should be the #1 pick in the draft. #2 at worst. Do you know something that nobody else in the NBA knows about Wroten?

I think you're yet again overrating another Seattle player who has serious question marks about being a complete player <coughMartellWebstercough>.
 
 
BrianFromWA said:
Wroten, and it's not close. The guy is basically a 6'6 Rondo if he never improves his shot at all. At 18, he's got some time to grow.
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sign Nash, draft him later in 1st (get a pick) and let him protege, maybe Nash can fix his broken shot! lol
 
VanillaGorilla said:
You're right, but good "true" PGs are supposed to make passes their teammates can catch and score off of. He obviously isn't very good at that.

For comparison, Lillard averaged 4 assists with 2.3 turnovers with players who were presumably worse at catching the passes and making layups.

Wroten seems like a SG who can't shoot worth a damn. If his only great skill is driving and finishing strong he could eventually be a decent bench player I guess, but he needs a jump shot. He doesn't seem like anything special.
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That is just completely wrong....If anything LIllard benefited from the fact that Weber State was a good perimeter shooting team...meaning he could just swing a pass on the perimeter, guy makes a 3 or jumper and he gets an assist.....He won't have that luxury in the NBA nearly as much....the concerns are can he effectively run a pick n roll, hit guys coming off a screen, breakdown a defender and make the right pass when defenses collapse on him or execute a lob pass effectively....
 
Blaze01 said:
That is just completely wrong....If anything LIllard benefited from the fact that Weber State was a good perimeter shooting team...meaning he could just swing a pass on the perimeter, guy makes a 3 or jumper and he gets an assist.....He won't have that luxury in the NBA nearly as much....the concerns are can he effectively run a pick n roll, hit guys coming off a screen, breakdown a defender and make the right pass when defenses collapse on him or execute a lob pass effectively....
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Are you saying that Weber State has better shooters than the average NBA team? His game is driving to the hoop. When the defense collapses, a decent driving PG can find an open spot-up shooter. I guess I missed all of the times Lillard just swung the ball to a stationary shooter.

What an odd criticism, because it quite literally is almost the opposite of Lillard's game.

I see a lot of Reece Gaines in Tony Wroten, and that's not a compliment.
 
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PapaG said:
Are you saying that Weber State has better shooters than the average NBA team? His game is driving to the hoop. When the defense collapses, a decent driving PG can find an open spot-up shooter. I guess I missed all of the times Lillard just swung the ball to a stationary shooter.

What an odd criticism, because it quite literally is almost the opposite of Lillard's game.

I see a lot of Reece Gaines in Wroten, and that's not a compliment.
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I am saying that Weber State was a perimeter oriented team, they had good shooters and he benefited from that....I don't know what you were watching, but that was EXACTLY Lillard's game....create for himself or if he could not then dump it out to shooters....
 
Blaze01 said:
That is just completely wrong....If anything LIllard benefited from the fact that Weber State was a good perimeter shooting team...meaning he could just swing a pass on the perimeter, guy makes a 3 or jumper and he gets an assist.....He won't have that luxury in the NBA nearly as much....the concerns are can he effectively run a pick n roll, hit guys coming off a screen, breakdown a defender and make the right pass when defenses collapse on him or execute a lob pass effectively....
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I just don't even know what to say to you anymore, you just make stuff up to make him seem terrible whenever someone says anything good about Lillard.
 
Blaze01 said:
I am saying that Weber State was a perimeter oriented team, they had good shooters and he benefited from that....I don't know what you were watching, but that was EXACTLY Lillard's game....create for himself or if he could not then dump it out to shooters....
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That's what almost every PG in the NBA does, except for the elite passers like Rondo, Nash, and Paul.
 
VanillaGorilla said:
I just don't even know what to say to you anymore, you just make stuff up to make him seem terrible whenever someone says anything good about Lillard.
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lol, I am not "making shit up" I am just being realistic about his shortcomings, some of you fucking homers can't seem to take off your blinders for one second....
 
Blaze01 said:
I am saying that Weber State was a perimeter oriented team, they had good shooters and he benefited from that....I don't know what you were watching, but that was EXACTLY Lillard's game....create for himself or if he could not then dump it out to shooters....
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Huh? You said Lillard "could just swing a pass on the perimeter", not me. Then you say that Lillard's game is creating for himself, and if not, dumping it out to shooters.

Those two things are not at all the same. Plus, Lillard still averaged more APG than Wroten, is a much better shooter, and apparently has the quickness to defend other PGs.
 
Blaze01 said:
lol, I am not "making shit up" I am just being realistic about his shortcomings, some of you fucking homers can't seem to take off your blinders for one second....
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How is questioning your flawed opinion of Lillard being a "fucking homer"?

Would you take Wroten over Lillard? I wouldn't.
 
Blaze01 said:
I am saying that Weber State was a perimeter oriented team, they had good shooters and he benefited from that....I don't know what you were watching, but that was EXACTLY Lillard's game....create for himself or if he could not then dump it out to shooters....
Click to expand...

I wonder if we wouldn't run that offense though; our roster isn't beefy enough for a pick and roll offense. Batum can't set a pick on a broom, and LMA sets picks like the other players have cooties. But both can hit shots from about anywhere. Williams, Batum, Matthews, Smith on good days, LMA a step in from the 3pt line... they all can hit from outside. Add a slasher PF/C in Hickson and a point guard who can make defenders nervous, and you've got a decent, if streaky, offense.
 


It is really not that difficult when you actually watch it....

so...um...yeah....
 
BlazerCaravan said:
I wonder if we wouldn't run that offense though; our roster isn't beefy enough for a pick and roll offense. Batum can't set a pick on a broom, and LMA sets picks like the other players have cooties. But both can hit shots from about anywhere. Williams, Batum, Matthews, Smith on good days, LMA a step in from the 3pt line... they all can hit from outside. Add a slasher PF/C in Hickson and a point guard who can make defenders nervous, and you've got a decent, if streaky, offense.
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The key is, and it's a valid point by Blaze01, is whether or not Lillard can finish at the rim in the NBA. He already has a nice outside shot, and he has proven at Weber he can get to the rim and finish at a small school. Whether that translates to the NBA is the key question. In his favor, Lillard has incredible Combine testing measurements. I just find the "Weber State is a perimeter school" criticism irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. The #1 thing about Lillard is this. Can he still get to the rim in the NBA? If he can't, then he's just another decent shooting small guy, and probably isn't worth the 6th pick.
 
Blaze01 said:


It is really not that difficult when you actually watch it....

so...um...yeah....
Click to expand...


I watched a minute of that video. Not once did I see Lillard "swing" a pass along the perimeter. Almost every time, he drives, attracts defenders, and passes to the open guy, who more often than not misses the shot. In the NBA, those shots get made more often than they do at Weber State.

What I liked most was him pushing the pace and passing to the open guy almost every time before the defense was set.

so ... um ... yeah...
 
BlazerCaravan said:
I wonder if we wouldn't run that offense though; our roster isn't beefy enough for a pick and roll offense. Batum can't set a pick on a broom, and LMA sets picks like the other players have cooties. But both can hit shots from about anywhere. Williams, Batum, Matthews, Smith on good days, LMA a step in from the 3pt line... they all can hit from outside. Add a slasher PF/C in Hickson and a point guard who can make defenders nervous, and you've got a decent, if streaky, offense.
Click to expand...

The problem is both Batum & Matthews are too streaky of shooters.....20 one night, 5 the next....and I am not saying that Lillard is incapable of being able to better his PG abilities, I have my doubts that he, but maybe he can....

I am sure they ran him through some pick n roll "situations" but those don't really simulate game situations accurately...There are just a lot of nuances to being a PG at the NBA level, particularly in passing...especially with a scoring guard...Maybe he can do it....I mean if POR reaches for him at #6, then I hope he can b\c POR cannot afford to screw up that pick....

Personally, the more I look at this draft, the more I am convinced POR needs to do everything in thier power to get into the top 5...I don't care if you have to sacrficie #11 to do so, get 1 of Beal, Barnes, MKG or Robinson...any one of them would be better than #6 IMO....and I believe that POR will be able to buy\easily trade for a mid\late 1st if they have the desire to do so....
 
PapaG said:
I watched a minute of that video. Not once did I see Lillard "swing" a pass along the perimeter. Almost every time, he drives, attracts defenders, and passes to the open guy, who more often than not misses the shot. In the NBA, those shots get made more often than they do at Weber State.

What I liked most was him pushing the pace and passing to the open guy almost every time before the defense was set.

so ... um ... yeah...
Click to expand...

Well, there you go...that explains a lot...
 
PapaG said:
The key is, and it's a valid point by Blaze01, is whether or not Lillard can finish at the rim in the NBA. He already has a nice outside shot, and he has proven at Weber he can get to the rim and finish at a small school. Whether that translates to the NBA is the key question. In his favor, Lillard has incredible Combine testing measurements. I just find the "Weber State is a perimeter school" criticism irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. The #1 thing about Lillard is this. Can he still get to the rim in the NBA? If he can't, then he's just another decent shooting small guy, and probably isn't worth the 6th pick.
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Look, what I meant is..

Can he effectively execute a pick n roll against NBA level defenders?

Can he recognize & execute a lob pass?

Is he able to hit the right guy in the right place at the right time when he breaks down a defense with penetration?

Does he see the floor well enough to spot when a teamate is open or about to come open and hit him in the right place to score?

and I agree with you....his combine results show very good athleticism, but he doesn't really display that on the court IMO...I question whether he has the body to absorb contact on drives or the explosion to drive thru defenders and finish at the rim....
 
PapaG said:
A 6'6" Rondo should be the #1 pick in the draft. #2 at worst. Do you know something that nobody else in the NBA knows about Wroten?

I think you're yet again overrating another Seattle player who has serious question marks about being a complete player <coughMartellWebstercough>.
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I know a bunch about Wroten. I've seen him play in person, which is something I'm not sure every GM can say. I've talked to a few of the AAU hanger-on guys that watch him. I've been following him a bit ever since he blew out his knee playing football in HS, or almost was rendered ineligible for passing a Spanish class that was set up for him and two buddies.

BTW, Rondo went #21, not 1 or 2. What makes you think his risks (lower scoring, smaller role on team and more of a non-optimal attitude than Wroten) made him drop, but wouldn't make Wroten? I've acknowledged that he can't go right and that he can't shoot. Even so, just about every draft evaluator says he has "Top 10 talent" but are worried about his ability to improve. Are you going to acknowledge that he still managed to find a way to score 16 a game, or that he didn't get 5rpg, or 4 assists (with 4 to's), or 2 steals? Seems relatively complete to me. Unless you think that none of the Pac-12 coaches realized he had no right hand or jump shot? Did we just scoop everyone?!?

You say "yet again" as if I wasn't right about Webster being better than your boy Outlaw, and that it was because he was from Seattle that I liked him. Wrong on both counts. ;)
 
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PapaG said:
Huh? You said Lillard "could just swing a pass on the perimeter", not me. Then you say that Lillard's game is creating for himself, and if not, dumping it out to shooters.

Those two things are not at all the same. Plus, Lillard still averaged more APG than Wroten, is a much better shooter, and apparently has the quickness to defend other PGs.
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Which is why he's being talked about as the #6 pick instead of the #25 or so pick. :dunno: I'm curious to see what Lillard looked like his Freshman year, though, or if it'd been in the Pac-12. Why are we assuming that these guys cannot improve?
 
Saw this on the Cavs board on RealGM. No clue if reliable at all, but what the hell, what is at this point, right?

Wine and Gold just posted

Wine and Gold wrote:
I'm not convinced it's 100% legit ...signed,sealed, and delivered ...but I got a call from someone today that said he heard we had a deal in place for the 2nd pick, in order to select Beal. It involved our 4 and 24... which I think is pretty pricey given that 4 could likely be MKG... BUT, that's what I heard in a call today from a decent source..
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Anything that pushes Robinson and MKG closer to us is a good thing.
 
RR7 said:
Saw this on the Cavs board on RealGM. No clue if reliable at all, but what the hell, what is at this point, right?
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Well, this was a rumor that's out there right now. I posted it earlier and a few of us discussed a few pages back.
 
 
BLAZINGGIANTS said:
Well, this was a rumor that's out there right now. I posted it earlier and a few of us discussed a few pages back.
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Yeah, I saw the amick quote. Figure an "insider" posting it might add a little intrigue or legitimacy. Seems like the cav fans think it ia an overpay, but seems worth it to me.
 
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