2017-18 Front Line and Backups

[riverman]

I know its popular to not give any respect to Leonard because of his terrible play - but to think that they won't play him is a leap IMO. He's still in the rotation until beaten out by someone.

My guess would be a healthy Ed Davis will be the backup starting out

 

[calvin natt]

It just feeeeels like people might be overly optimistic about that roster. In the west, this group will have to battle to be .500. Three really good players and then the drop off is significant. Combined with more improved teams in the conference vs teams who got worse. Just my two cents.

PS: if Jake Layman ever starts for the Blazers they're in trouble.

 

[riverman]

I expect Vonleh, Davis, Chief, ET and Mo to all be better this season playing with Nurk....Stotts will sprinkle in Swanigan, Layman and Collins along with Leonard but I'd say they'll be third stringers until at least half a season is over

 

[Wizard Mentor]

It just feeeeels like people might be overly optimistic about that roster. In the west, this group will have to battle to be .500. Three really good players and then the drop off is significant. Combined with more improved teams in the conference vs teams who got worse. Just my two cents.

PS: if Jake Layman ever starts for the Blazers they're in trouble.

Very possible we're overly optimistic. The national media thinks we're between 8th and 10th seed. However,

14-6 with Nurk. Was it an aberration? Of course, as a Blazer fan I think it wasn't. Nurk wasn't in shape, either, so there's room for EVEN MORE optimism. There's also the fact that even though he played "like a shell of himself" (CJ's words) against GS in the playoffs, he had double digit rebounds in short minutes.

Other teams have improved themselves on paper, but questions remain: Minny's defense is a concern even with Butler, Houston's "double ballhog" starters could be a serious issue, can WestBrick coexist with anyone?

 

[calvin natt]

I think Westbrook does fine with Paul George
MN is clearly better than they were.
SAC will be better.
Houston added an elite PG, I think that makes them better.

Clearly Nurk is good. But 14-6 to me feels a little bit like the honeymoon period that teams often experience. I hope not.

 

[H.C.]

I think Westbrook does fine with Paul George
MN is clearly better than they were.
SAC will be better.
Houston added an elite PG, I think that makes them better.

Clearly Nurk is good. But 14-6 to me feels a little bit like the honeymoon period that teams often experience. I hope not.

Clippers the 4th seed lost an elite PG, makes them worse.
Jazz lost their best player, makes them worse.(also iso joe is a year older)
Minn will be better, but how much better? If they get to 51 wins that's a +20 game improvement. I've put money on Minn not getting to 50 wins.
Memphis lost Carter, Z-bo and looking like they could lose Allen. They're worse.

People talking like all Western teams outside of Portland got better, and it's true some teams did add talent.
But it doesn't fit their narrative when you bring up Western playoff teams also lost talent.

 

[H.C.]

PS: if Jake Layman ever starts for the Blazers they're in trouble.

I don't really understand this statement.
If Layman starts for Portland two things have happened.
1. Harkless/Aminu/Turner have all gone done with injuries.
2. Layman shocks the world and beats those players out.

 

[Mediocre Man]

And now for something completely different:

Time will tell, but I'm hoping to get a better look at the Nurkic-Vonleh-Harkless on the front line this season.

But, despite what positions I think we drafted the players for, I kind of picture (eventually) the following as backups:

C: Biggie (he bulls, picks, passes and posts kind of like Nurkic does);
PF: ZCollins (I still see him as more of a PF who can defend the perimeter better);
SF: Layman (love the defensive effort he showed at SL and hope he can bring the rest too).

I'm sure Aminu will see PF minutes and Turner will see SF minutes, but I want to see what the young guys do--especially Biggie as a backup C and Layman as a matchup problem. If Biebs earns a spot in there then more power to him.

 

[Blazinaway]

It just feeeeels like people might be overly optimistic about that roster. In the west, this group will have to battle to be .500. Three really good players and then the drop off is significant. Combined with more improved teams in the conference vs teams who got worse. Just my two cents.

PS: if Jake Layman ever starts for the Blazers they're in trouble.

I just don't see him as a "regular rotation" guy at this time based on what we've seen. Perhaps he can take a step forward this yr, I hope he does, but for now I can't put him on a reg rotation list

 

[calvin natt]

I don't really understand this statement.
If Layman starts for Portland two things have happened.
1. Harkless/Aminu/Turner have all gone done with injuries.
2. Layman shocks the world and beats those players out.

I think Layman isn't a good player is what it means. So I don't think #2 happens.

 

[calvin natt]

Clippers the 4th seed lost an elite PG, makes them worse.
Jazz lost their best player, makes them worse.(also iso joe is a year older)
Minn will be better, but how much better? If they get to 51 wins that's a +20 game improvement. I've put money on Minn not getting to 50 wins.
Memphis lost Carter, Z-bo and looking like they could lose Allen. They're worse.

People talking like all Western teams outside of Portland got better, and it's true some teams did add talent.
But it doesn't fit their narrative when you bring up Western playoff teams also lost talent.

Clippers worse- but plenty of talent to still be be playoff team
Utah clearly worse.
Memphis losing three almost done old guys

The West is loaded. At least that's what everyone on the planet seems to think. I said they'd have to battle to be a .500 team. You disagree with that? You think they go what, .600 in the West?

 

[Minstrel]

I think Layman isn't a good player is what it means. So I don't think #2 happens.

I think his point is that it's kinda obvious that if a team loses so many players to injury that a deep reserve is starting, that team is in trouble.

 

[Trackjack]

It really come down how much did our players improve will depends how good we will be this year. Injuries will have big say who will be in the playoffs. But are starters can play with anyone outside Golden St. It is really going to be how good our bench will be this year. Swanigan and Collins will slowly get minutes throughout the year.

 

[Boob-No-More]

With a full season of Nurk, I expect us to be better this year than last. But, it's not really about this year. It's about the future. It will probably make @BigGameDamian cry is his Lucky Charms to read this, but 2017-18 is a development year. To get where we need to be, 2 or 3 years from now, we need to develop our young bigs.

Nurk turns 23 in a month, and isn't a finished product. He's obviously been working out like a fiend and is highly motivated to have a breakout season. We need him to become a legitimate part of a Big 3 with Dame and C.J.

We also need two of Vonleh, Swanigan and Collins to develop into significantly above average NBA big men. Hard to believe Vonleh is a full year and a day younger than Nurk. He won't turn 22 until next month. I hate to give up on the guy, but his progress has been so painstakingly slow. He's definitely a solid rebounder and defender, but had the lowest scoring average of any player to start at least 41 games last season. We need to get more out of that starting PF position.

This is where Collins and Swanigan come in. One of them needs to develop into an above average NBA starting PF to pair with Nurk and the other needs to become a super 6th man type off the bench. Right now, I'm hoping Collins can develop into a significantly above average 2-way starting PF and Swanigan can become a perennial Sixth Man of the Year candidate bringing high energy off the bench. But, I could actually see it developing the other way, too. Collins was a super sub in college - good enough to make the All NCAA Tournament team coming off the bench as a freshman and Swanigan was Big 10 player of the year as a sophomore.

In any case, 2 - 3 years from now, we need one of them to be a significantly better than average starting PF and the other to be one of the best 6th men in the league backing up both front court positions.

If it sounds like pie in the sky, it might be, but it's what he expected when Neil targeted these two players in the 1st round of this year's draft. He thought enough of Collins to traded up to the 10th pick to get him and believes he got a steal with Swanigan at 26. I think Swanigan is more likely to have an impact this season. His high motor and relentless rebounding will be enough to get him minutes this year, but I think Collins has more upside as a 2-way player.

BNM

 

[Harry's Raincoat]

Agreed. Can we just go to sleep till 2020??!!

Need powerful posts to change the climate in the W's roster. Make them guard some bigs down low!!! One foul per possession.

To clarify earlier comment.....I want to see Layman develop into a legit starting SF. He has the tools. Just need to refine. I don't want him getting PT because of default or injury.

 

[Minstrel]

Also we need to develop Meyers Leonard. Most players his age would only be two years out of college and playing much, much better.

 

[H.C.]

Clippers worse- but plenty of talent to still be be playoff team
Utah clearly worse.
Memphis losing three almost done old guys

The West is loaded. At least that's what everyone on the planet seems to think. I said they'd have to battle to be a .500 team. You disagree with that? You think they go what, .600 in the West?

First off I'd like to point out that I said the West got better.

No one said the Clippers aren't devoid of talent.
However the Jazz and Clippers won't be battling for HCA this year. Instead they'll be fighting for a playoff spot. Fighting for .500
Those three guys Memphis lost were huge for them last year. Unless their rookies/young talent makes a leap. They will clearly be worse.

No one said the West isn't loaded, but I pointed out three playoff teams that will be worse.

You didn't make a prediction, why should I?
Oh right because you want to run with the narrative all other teams in the West added talent and Portland will be fighting for .500
Never mind three playoff teams from 2017 got worse... They're still better than Portland.
Never mind that if Minn jumps +20 wins it will be one of the biggest win increases in NBA history.
Never mind people in the Minn camp have been saying for a solid 3 going on 4 years now they will be a playoff team.
Lavine defensively < Butler Defensively
Rubio > Teague defensively
Crawful offensive player
Deing > Gibson

But... But... Potential! potential! They're dripping with Potential!

logic dictates when teams above you get worse by losing talent... They become easier to get the W on.

TL;DR
Two teams below Portland added talent and will be better.
Three teams above Portland lost talent and will be worse.

 

[Reep]

Also we need to develop Meyers Leonard. Most players his age would only be two years out of college and playing much, much better.

I have generally liked Meyers and hope he does develop. But, I would test it out in preseason. If he has significantly improved then I would give him significant backup minutes ahead of Biggie and ZCo. But, if he is the same as before in preseason then I would park his butt and give the minutes to those with more potential.

 

[calvin natt]

First off I'd like to point out that I said the West got better.

No one said the Clippers aren't devoid of talent.
However the Jazz and Clippers won't be battling for HCA this year. Instead they'll be fighting for a playoff spot. Fighting for .500
Those three guys Memphis lost were huge for them last year. Unless their rookies/young talent makes a leap. They will clearly be worse.

No one said the West isn't loaded, but I pointed out three playoff teams that will be worse.

You didn't make a prediction, why should I?
Oh right because you want to run with the narrative all other teams in the West added talent and Portland will be fighting for .500
Never mind three playoff teams from 2017 got worse... They're still better than Portland.
Never mind that if Minn jumps +20 wins it will be one of the biggest win increases in NBA history.
Never mind people in the Minn camp have been saying for a solid 3 going on 4 years now they will be a playoff team.
Lavine defensively < Butler Defensively
Rubio > Teague defensively
Crawful offensive player
Deing > Gibson

But... But... Potential! potential! They're dripping with Potential!

logic dictates when teams above you get worse by losing talent... They become easier to get the W on.

TL;DR
Two teams below Portland added talent and will be better.
Three teams above Portland lost talent and will be worse.

Ha

 

[Nate]

Assuming that we make no other roster moves.....I think our roster looks like this:

Starters: Lillard - McCollum - Harkless - Vonleh - Nurkic
Daily Rotation guys: Napier - Turner - Layman - Aminu - Swanigan - Leonard

I think we'll only occasionally see Davis, Collins (he needs strength and practice court time for a half season at least), & Connaughton.

I'd like to see Swanigan get some starters time next to Nurk. I'd also like to see Layman play well enough to think about him as a starter.

Lillard - McCollum - Layman - Collins - Nurkic as a starters unit in 2-3 seasons would be really really nice!!!

That's at least 1 too many white guys starting

 

[Orion Bailey]

I think we start Dame CJ Turner Vonleh and Nurk
Napier Harkless Chief Swanigan and Ed Davis on deck

I hope not.napier as the only guy who can dribble in the second unit? We would get owned. Turner needs to come off the bench to help with that.

 

[Orion Bailey]

That's at least 1 too many white guys starting

Huh? So nurk, the only white guy, shouldn't be starting?
No green font???

 

[Reep]

I hope not.napier as the only guy who can dribble in the second unit? We would get owned. Turner needs to come off the bench to help with that.

Don't they stagger Dame and CJ so one is always on the court? The second unit does not come in as a whole.

 

[Nate]

Huh? So nurk, the only white guy, shouldn't be starting?
No green font???

I knew I should've bolded the very last paragraph.

Nurk gets a pass because he's not a wabc

 

[Reep]

Dave chimes in:

https://www.blazersedge.com/2017/8/...tarters-swanigan-aminu-vonleh-leonard-collins

You’d have to believe Vonleh has the inside track after his strong(er) performances alongside Nurkic in the final half of the season just past. He’ll probably come into camp penciled into the starting five.

Swanigan might be a surprise candidate to overtake the field. His outside shot is confident and he can pass: two characteristics critical for the Blazers on the scoring end of the floor. They can’t afford to keep missing jumpers the defense cedes while overplaying the Big 3. Aminu can’t hit enough of them; Davis would never get out that far. Swanigan’s defense will be the deciding factor between a regular role and pine time. Even if his offense looks smooth, Portland can’t survive another gaping hole in the “D”.

If this summer’s rhetoric is any indicator, the Blazers are hoping that Collins will fill the power forward role long-term. His advertised skills would fit perfectly: mid-range game and the ability to sink corner threes, mobility, vision, passing, rebounding, defensive floor coverage, and shot blocking. It’s easy to imagine Collins and Nurkic working together like bread and butter.

I think that last part is a typo and he meant to say "like milk toast and Butters."

 

[tlongII]

Swanigan will win the starting PF spot in training camp. Vonleh and Aminu just aren't very good.

 

[handiman]

Braid-less Vonleh will have a breakout year, just like Flip Rodriquez when he ditched the mask.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Braid-less Vonleh will have a breakout year, just like Flip Rodriquez when he ditched the mask.

Always respect a good ANW reference.

 

[Reep]

Swanigan will win the starting PF spot in training camp. Vonleh and Aminu just aren't very good.

It will be an interesting battle. I do agree we have seen the best Aminu has to offer and he is a nice backup. Biggie will be ready, so Vonleh better not sleep on this. But, if Vonleh comes out aggressive (and scores the #*$* ball) then I think he has the advantage because of his superior foot speed and ability to get out on stretch fours.

 

[dviss1]

Braid-less Vonleh will have a breakout year, just like Flip Rodriquez when he ditched the mask.

QFT.