2018 Around the NBA - October

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Labinot41 said:
CJ is better than klay
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You do realize that going into tonight Klay was shooting under 40% from the field, 13.9% on 3 pointers, 41.9 eFG%, 7.9 PER, 45.2 TS%, and negative WS/48, OBPM, DBPM, and VORP. Before tonight GS fans were saying the same things we were saying about CJ that he sucks and they should trade him.
 
Labinot41 said:
Sure klay has it easier, but klay does not take as many bad shots as cj (I mean those 1vs3 ISO shots), klay uses his strenght perfectly as Spot up shooter and has a good drive to the Basket
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If Klay takes better shots why are their career shooting percentages and advanced shooting stats pretty much exactly the same?
 
calvin natt said:
CJ is not better than Klay. Cmon.
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This is an argument from the CJ thread in which I specifically said I'd take Klay but if you look at their stats they are virtually the same player except that CJ is the better passer.
 
hoopsjock said:
If Klay takes better shots why are their career shooting percentages and advanced shooting stats pretty much exactly the same?
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Stop it, you Inciteful Factmonger!

Personally, I'd trade CJ for Victor, but Indy never would.
 
hoopsjock said:
This is an argument from the CJ thread in which I specifically said I'd take Klay but if you look at their stats they are virtually the same player except that CJ is the better passer.
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Curious if a single GM would take CJ over Klay. Maybe a couple. Klay is bigger and plays much better defense. I doubt Klay has any 5-25 games either but I’m not sure.
 
hoopsjock said:
This is an argument from the CJ thread in which I specifically said I'd take Klay but if you look at their stats they are virtually the same player except that CJ is the better passer.
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What I would like to see is a poll of NBA coaches as to who they would rather have on their team. My gut feeling is CJ doesn't win that one, though I would be hard pressed to explain exactly why.
 
calvin natt said:
Curious if a single GM would take CJ over Klay. Maybe a couple. Klay is bigger and plays much better defense. I doubt Klay has any 5-25 games either but I’m not sure.
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What the fuck did I just say? I'm NOT saying CJ is better than Klay but you guys act like Klay is this great shooter when his shooting stats are the same as CJ's and he gets way more open looks. His defense is vastly overrated too. He is bigger sure.

Klay did shoot 5-20 in a game this season already, I don't have time to go back any further. My whole point about Klay is that CJ haters thought he was a way better passer and shooter but he isn't. People are being blinded by their CJ hate.
 
oldmangrouch said:
What I would like to see is a poll of NBA coaches as to who they would rather have on their team. My gut feeling is CJ doesn't win that one, though I would be hard pressed to explain exactly why.
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I've said multiple times that I would still take Klay but the numbers are way closer than people give CJ credit for. I'm curious what Klay's numbers would be like if he was on say the Knicks this season.
 
calvin natt said:
Curious if a single GM would take CJ over Klay. Maybe a couple. Klay is bigger and plays much better defense. I doubt Klay has any 5-25 games either but I’m not sure.
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He doesn't have any 5-25 games, but he has had several sub-par games the last 2 years (sub par being sub 40%), tho CJ has had more. But it's easier for teams to collapse on CJ (and Damian) than it is for them to collapse on Klay.

in 17-18, CJ had 29 games where he shot below 40%, Klay had 17.
in 16-17, CJ had 20, Klay had 20.

Prior to tonights outburst, Klay was shooting 14% from 3 this year (CJ was shooting 40%).

But part of the issue is, CJ doesn't have Durant and Curry to keep defenders from doubling him. You give this team another 20+ scorer, who actually can create for himself, and I bet Damian and CJ would see their #'s go up. Not on par with Klay or Curry though.
 
hoopsjock said:
So is CJ top 10 of all time then?

Edit: Nevermind can we please not start a 47th different discussion about this same topic?
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No. He isn’t.

As a shooter, Klay is one of the best all time. If you don’t agree or think CJ is as good because of stats then ok.
 
I’ll never understand the reasoning behind a player having certain numbers on bad teams vs good teams. You can argue it both ways to fit your preferred narrative.

A guy scores 30 for a bad team = no one else is any good he has to score (Kevin Love in MN)
A guy scores 30 on a good team= the defense focuses on other players so he’s open (Klay)

It’s the dumbest argument.
 
calvin natt said:
I’ll never understand the reasoning behind a player having certain numbers on bad teams vs good teams. You can argue it both ways to fit your preferred narrative.

A guy scores 30 for a bad team = no one else is any good he has to score (Kevin Love in MN)
A guy scores 30 on a good team= the defense focuses on other players so he’s open (Klay)

It’s the dumbest argument.
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If you're addressing my post, that wasn't my argument. But you're telling me that if CJ was on the Warriors, his opportunities wouldn't improve? Or if the Blazers didn't play with such a poor bench (the last two years) and had a legit 3rd threat on offense, that CJ and Damians %'s wouldn't improve?

That's exactly what happened against the Pelicans in the playoffs. The Blazers had zero players who were serious threats on the floor, meaning that the Pelicans were able to double Damian, basically nullifying him. That wouldn't happen if they had a 3rd star on the team.
 
calvin natt said:
I’ll never understand the reasoning behind a player having certain numbers on bad teams vs good teams. You can argue it both ways to fit your preferred narrative.

A guy scores 30 for a bad team = no one else is any good he has to score (Kevin Love in MN)
A guy scores 30 on a good team= the defense focuses on other players so he’s open (Klay)

It’s the dumbest argument.
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The bad team big numbers arguement is usually more so about how effective a player is at getting wins. Love for example had bad team mates sure, but never led MN to winning anything it was empty stats. Dame for example has had mediocre talent for the most part but wills his team to wins , big difference.

No ones saying Klay is a bad player, but Klay is GS’s third option the last few years, and has been on stacked teams (He’s part of the stack!) , he never gets doubled, he never gets trapped. That is in fact much different defenses he’s facing compared to other similar SG’s in the nba right now.
 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
The bad team big numbers arguement is usually more so about how effective a player is at getting wins. Love for example had bad team mates sure, but never led MN to winning anything it was empty stats. Dame for example has had mediocre talent for the most part but wills his team to wins , big difference.

No ones saying Klay is a bad player, but Klay is GS’s third option the last few years, and has been on stacked teams (He’s part of the stack!) , he never gets doubled, he never gets trapped. That is in fact much different defenses he’s facing compared to other similar SG’s in the nba right now.
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But if he’s on a bad team it’s a bad team. How does one guy make a team win like Love in MN. So he scored a gazilion points and fans are like “of course nobody on the team is any good he has to score”. Then they say “He can’t help them win more games” Its crazy. Is the team bad or good but losing anyway?
 
calvin natt said:
I’ll never understand the reasoning behind a player having certain numbers on bad teams vs good teams. You can argue it both ways to fit your preferred narrative.

A guy scores 30 for a bad team = no one else is any good he has to score (Kevin Love in MN)
A guy scores 30 on a good team= the defense focuses on other players so he’s open (Klay)

It’s the dumbest argument.
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In general I absolutely agree with you, but it's not always actually dumb, you have to figure in efficiency.

A guy scores 30 for a bad team AND ISN'T EFFICIENCY = no one else is any good he has to score
A guy scores 30 on a good team WHETHER EFFICIENT OR NOT= the defense focuses on other players so he’s open
 
julius said:
If you're addressing my post, that wasn't my argument. But you're telling me that if CJ was on the Warriors, his opportunities wouldn't improve? Or if the Blazers didn't play with such a poor bench (the last two years) and had a legit 3rd threat on offense, that CJ and Damians %'s wouldn't improve?

That's exactly what happened against the Pelicans in the playoffs. The Blazers had zero players who were serious threats on the floor, meaning that the Pelicans were able to double Damian, basically nullifying him. That wouldn't happen if they had a 3rd star on the team.
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If CJ was on the Warriors would he score more? Less? He’d be “more open” but he’d be sharing scoring with a bunch of all stars. The pointless argument goes round and round. I judge based on my own two eyes. Not saying I’m right but I would take Klay over CJ due to defense and size. And he’s an elite shooter.
 
calvin natt said:
If CJ was on the Warriors would he score more? Less? He’d be “more open” but he’d be sharing scoring with a bunch of all stars. The pointless argument goes round and round. I judge based on my own two eyes. Not saying I’m right but I would take Klay over CJ due to defense and size. And he’s an elite shooter.
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I would take Klay too, but defenses don't concentrate on him like they do CJ or Damian. I'm not saying that CJ's numbers would be the same, but it does make a difference how the defenses play you.
 
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