Politics 2020 Debate part 2

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My feeling when I look at the candidates from the Dems and I look at Trump is this is a great time to move. *shrugs*
 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
My feeling when I look at the candidates from the Dems and I look at Trump is this is a great time to move. *shrugs*
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It’s to the point now where i can not fathom why someone votes for Trump. The only reason most people will vote trump at this point is to just dig their heels in and not admit what a clusterfuck he is. (Outside the people who actually enjoy the racism etc)
 
calvin natt said:
It’s to the point now where i can not fathom why someone votes for Trump. The only reason most people will vote trump at this point is to just dig their heels in and not admit what a clusterfuck he is. (Outside the people who actually enjoy the racism etc)
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I know a few people who I don't believe are racists that like Trump because they agree with some of the policies and things he’s done. People have different values, perspectives, etc. Its not that I cant fathom why someone may vote for him, I just see no reason why I would.

That said I actually brought myself to watch some of the debates and I wasn't all that impressed with any of them either. I’ll probably vote 3rd party again, because Im honestly sick of the Dems/Republicans. At least being in Oregon it really doesnt matter who I vote for its going blue anyways lol.
 
calvin natt said:
It’s to the point now where i can not fathom why someone votes for Trump. The only reason most people will vote trump at this point is to just dig their heels in and not admit what a clusterfuck he is. (Outside the people who actually enjoy the racism etc)
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Pretty much this. I think people had legitimate reasons for rolling the dice on him the first time around, they felt pretty fucked over by Obama and Hillary is a soulless political creature. I don’t think people deserve as much flak as they get for voting for him the first time (unless it was for racist reasons, which I assure you is a VERY small fraction of people), they were just tired of the establishment and said fuck it. But, at this venture Trumps proven to be a clown and a sellout. Time to roll the dice again.
 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
I know a few people who I don't believe are racists that like Trump because they agree with some of the policies and things he’s done. People have different values, perspectives, etc. Its not that I cant fathom why someone may vote for him, I just see no reason why I would.

That said I actually brought myself to watch some of the debates and I wasn't all that impressed with any of them either. I’ll probably vote 3rd party again, because Im honestly sick of the Dems/Republicans. At least being in Oregon it really doesnt matter who I vote for its going blue anyways lol.
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Ok. But at this point...what policy could possibly override the person. I just can’t imagine anything. The one thing he had going for him was the perception that the economy was strong. That reality is dwindling by the day.
 
jonnyboy said:
Pretty much this. I think people had legitimate reasons for rolling the dice on him the first time around, they felt pretty fucked over by Obama and Hillary is a soulless political creature. I don’t think people deserve as much flak as they get for voting for him the first time (unless it was for racist reasons, which I assure you is a VERY small fraction of people), they were just tired of the establishment and said fuck it. But, at this venture Trumps proven to be a clown and a sellout. Time to roll the dice again.
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I think the flak is part of the problem. The problem with attack, attack, attack is that always leads to someone getting defensive. For a couple years now most conservatives have been told their racists literally because they voted for Trump. A lot of those people have dug their heels in just because, they have been personally attacked. It has played both ways at times, but you never ultimately “win”, a debate or an argument, or a vote by telling people how much you hate them because of the way they voted. Which amongst my conservative friends, seems to be how they feel. Like most of the left will call them racists and whatever unless they do exactly what the left tells them to do. So theres a bit of a, “screw you, you arent my boss”, going on.

The problem is the right has done the same thing for years.

The rhetoric of the both sides imo is so divisive, and purposefully out to make it, “you’re with me or against me”, they say they want “whats best”, but what they’re really saying is we want whats best for those agree with me and thats it. Which goes back to why Trump sucks IMO. A leaders gotta look beyond himself, and try to do whats right for all, there will always be disagreement, but he literally seeks it out and drives it home.
 
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TorturedBlazerFan said:
I know a few people who I don't believe are racists that like Trump because they agree with some of the policies and things he’s done. People have different values, perspectives, etc. Its not that I cant fathom why someone may vote for him, I just see no reason why I would.

That said I actually brought myself to watch some of the debates and I wasn't all that impressed with any of them either. I’ll probably vote 3rd party again, because Im honestly sick of the Dems/Republicans. At least being in Oregon it really doesnt matter who I vote for its going blue anyways lol.
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I get that people have differing opinions and that's fine, but I think supporting Trump is ridiculous and it says something (bad) about a person. It has nothing to do with racism specifically, it's just the fact of supporting a man like him. That's what I thought in 2015 as well. How someone can look at him and listen to him and decide he's anything close to a trustworthy person is just insane to me.
 
VanillaGorilla said:
I get that people have differing opinions and that's fine, but I think supporting Trump is ridiculous and it says something (bad) about a person. It has nothing to do with racism specifically, it's just the fact of supporting a man like him. That's what I thought in 2015 as well. How someone can look at him and listen to him and decide he's anything close to a trustworthy person is just insane to me.
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I honestly thought it was a joke when he was running the 1st time. I think people thought oh he’s going to clean up washington, which does need cleaned up. Im not sure why people thought he was the man to do it.

The thing is, many of those people would look at other candidates you might support and feel exactly the same.

There is so much that goes into why people have the views they do, or like certain people, or trust certain people. Most of the time its really not insanity.

Reminds me of this.

upload_2019-8-15_18-27-44.jpeg

Im not saying Trumps been great (LOL) ever since the 1st impression. Just who knows what trigger he hit for some people that supported him, or support him still. Just like Hillary, Obama, the Bush’s, etc.
 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
I think the flak is part of the problem. The problem with attack, attack, attack is that always leads to someone getting defensive. For a couple years now most conservatives have been told their racists literally because they voted for Trump. A lot of those people have dug their heels in just because, they have been personally attacked. It has played both ways at times, but you never ultimately “win”, a debate or an argument, or a vote by telling people how much you hate them because of the way they voted. Which amongst my conservative friends, seems to be how they feel. Like most of the left will call them racists and whatever unless they do exactly what the left tells them to do. So theres a bit of a, “screw you, you arent my boss”, going on.

The problem is the right has done the same thing for years.

The rhetoric of the both sides imo is so divisive, and purposefully out to make it, “you’re with me or against me”, they say they want “wgats best”, but what they’re really saying is we want whats best for those agree with me and thats it. Which goes back to why Trump sucks IMO. A leaders gotta look beyond himself, and try to do whats right for all, there will always be disagreement, but he literally seeks it out and drives it home.
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tenor.gif
 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
The thing is, about yang. Im just not buying what he’s selling. Maybe as time goes on I’ll buy it but right now he just doesnt do anything for me. If I had to pick one of em, it would probably be Warren, but that doesnt excite me either lol.
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I get swayed by people I really think I can trust based on what they say and what I learn about them. Maybe it's naive. Last election it was Bernie, and he really helped change some of my views too. In 2012 I thought I was a libertarian lol
 
VanillaGorilla said:
I get swayed by people I really think I can trust based on what they say and what I learn about them. Maybe it's naive. Last election it was Bernie, and he really helped change some of my views too. In 2012 I thought I was a libertarian lol
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My wife thinks Im a nicer version of Ron Swanson. I think she adds the nicer part to make me feel good lol.
 
I’d vote Yang. Either him, Tulsi or Bernie. They are the only ones with independent thoughts in their heads. The rest are establishment turds. If neither of those 3 candidates make it to the general I probably won’t vote. I guess we’ll see who the conservatives crap out, but I don’t expect much over there either.
 
jonnyboy said:
I’d vote Yang. Either him, Tulsi or Bernie. They are the only ones with independent thoughts in their heads. The rest are establishment turds. If neither of those 3 candidates make it to the general I probably won’t vote. I guess we’ll see who the conservatives crap out, but I don’t expect much over there either.
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I agree that Tulsi has independent thoughts apart from the establishment, but something about her gives me the heebie jeebies. It's the way she talks.
 
VanillaGorilla said:
I agree that Tulsi has independent thoughts apart from the establishment, but something about her gives me the heebie jeebies. It's the way she talks.
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She’s hot and I agree with almost everything she says. She’s either a unicorn, the antichrist, or a figment of my imagination.
 
VanillaGorilla said:
I agree that Tulsi has independent thoughts apart from the establishment, but something about her gives me the heebie jeebies. It's the way she talks.
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My impressions of Yang is he’s a one trick pony, and he’s a good talker, but I havent really heard anything that was like yeah ok Im on board. All of them take a lot of jabs at Trump which I know scores well, but honestly it does nothing for me, because literally I think my 4 year old could figure out how to take jabs at Trump. Im not opposed to Yang, but he’s gotta make me see more than the UBI stuff, and so far thats been his clear cut selling point.

Which honestly the libertarian in me is, like screw that I’ll make my own 1k. I like some parts of UBI, but Im also concerned with making more people dependent on the government. Though Id rather they have the government help them then no one help them.
 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
My impressions of Yang is he’s a one trick pony, and he’s a good talker, but I havent really heard anything that was like yeah ok Im on board. All of them take a lot of jabs at Trump which I know scores well, but honestly it does nothing for me, because literally I think my 4 year old could figure out how to take jabs at Trump. Im not opposed to Yang, but he’s gotta make me see more than the UBI stuff, and so far thats been his clear cut selling point.

Which honestly the libertarian in me is, like screw that I’ll make my own 1k. I like some parts of UBI, but Im also concerned with making more people dependent on the government. Though Id rather they have the government help them then no one help them.
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TorturedBlazerFan said:
@calvin natt
@VanillaGorilla @jonnyboy
Enjoyed the cordial discussion on politics. I understand we are in a very charged atmosphere and emotions are high right now. Just wanted to say thanks for the discussion.
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If you feel so inclined, I'd recommend listening to any of Yang's podcast interviews. The Joe Rogan one from earlier this year was pretty good. He does always mention the "Freedom Dividend", I think mostly still to get people's attention, but he has really in depth thoughts and policies on pretty much everything else too. His website also has his views on pretty much everything if you wanna take a look. But I'm expecting him to try to branch out a lot more in the fall debates.

And ditto about the conversation, thanks!
 
jonnyboy said:
She’s hot and I agree with almost everything she says. She’s either a unicorn, the antichrist, or a figment of my imagination.
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Mostly, I find her boring.
 
Lanny said:
There are a few who would agree with you. The problem is it is a tiny few.
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He has more supporters than half the candidates in the last debates and has qualified for the fall debates. And he's gaining more.
 
VanillaGorilla said:
He has more supporters than half the candidates in the last debates and has qualified for the fall debates. And he's gaining more.
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Just stick with your guy. The mainstream media is just doing their normal routine of blackballing anyone who isn’t an establishment hack. People need to ignore the entertainment television opinion pieces Americans call news, do their research and vote for who they like, not who the corporate sponsored media is saying the winner is going to be. We all saw how intuitive they were last election lol. Cashing in your chips and voting for a “safe bet” hack like Biden is just selling yourself short. That dude could stand there cross eyed for an entire debate and MSNBC would say he won.
 
I honestly hope it's not Joe Biden I end up having to vote for....too much connection to the last loss and too old. If he's leading at crunch time he'll get my vote but I hope it's not Joe at this point...too much Clinton/Obama hate will follow Joe to the polls....need someone younger in my view with the balls to rip Trump a new one in a debate
 
jonnyboy said:
Just stick with your guy. The mainstream media is just doing their normal routine of blackballing anyone who isn’t an establishment hack. People need to ignore the entertainment television opinion pieces Americans call news, do their research and vote for who they like, not who the corporate sponsored media is saying the winner is going to be. We all saw how intuitive they were last election lol. Cashing in your chips and voting for a “safe bet” hack like Biden is just selling yourself short. That dude could stand there cross eyed for an entire debate and MSNBC would say he won.
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I haven't seen any negative press on Yang as of yet. And I've seen plenty of negative coverage of Biden. So I'm not sure I agree with the specifics of your charge, although I do agree that people should ignore media opinions in favor of their own.

barfo
 
barfo said:
I haven't seen any negative press on Yang as of yet. And I've seen plenty of negative coverage of Biden. So I'm not sure I agree with the specifics of your charge, although I do agree that people should ignore media opinions in favor of their own.

barfo
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Yeah I haven't really seen anything negative from the media about Yang except incredulity that he wants to give $1,000 a month to everyone, implying that it's just crazy. He's still being treated as a novelty candidate, I wonder if that'll change by the next debates and any candidate will actually challenge the idea of UBI, or if they'll continue to essentially ignore it completely. Probably the latter.
 
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