2020 Free Agency Thread (1 Viewer)

[Scalma]

Not sure it’s fair to pigeonhole CJ because he’s a completely different player when Dame is out. He looks like he could legitimately lead a team. Teams see that.

The problem is Olshey is in love with the pairing and will go down with them before breaking it up, imo.

 

[Natebishop3]

These guys didn't think so: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2822874-metrics-101-exposing-the-nbas-worst-defender-at-every-position#:~:text=Shooting Guard: Devin Booker, Phoenix Suns (Minus-6.898)&text=Plus, his time defending opposing,so poorly in this exercise.

But, mainly just giving you some static. I think people are a bit over the top around here about CJ. Your mileage may vary.

He is what he is. He won't be changing any time soon and I'm sick of watching the Dame/CJ show get derailed every year because of the blatant weaknesses that everyone in the league is aware of at this point. Pair that with Stotts and let the treadmill continue!

 

[handiman]

He is what he is. He won't be changing any time soon and I'm sick of watching the Dame/CJ show get derailed every year...

Kinda like how every thread here gets derailed by CJ haters who won't be changing any time soon?

 

[Natebishop3]

Kinda like how every thread here gets derailed by CJ haters who won't be changing any time soon?

Calling people haters is such a lazy response.

 

[lawai'a]

Any interest in chris boucher as back up 4/5?

 

[Scalma]

Calling people haters is such a lazy response.

almost as lazy as calling CJ a “tweener,” as if those still existed. CJs issue isn’t size.

 

[Natebishop3]

almost as lazy as calling CJ a “tweener,” as if those still existed. CJs issue isn’t size.

lol k

 

[handiman]

Calling people haters is such a lazy response.

Would you prefer profanity? Or do you simply dislike terms that summarize you so well?

 

[SharpesTriumph]

He is what he is. He won't be changing any time soon and I'm sick of watching the Dame/CJ show get derailed every year because of the blatant weaknesses that everyone in the league is aware of at this point. Pair that with Stotts and let the treadmill continue!

That isn't only from the DameCJ pairing... the other 3 guys in the lineup need to give consistent playoff contributions. The frontcourts DameCJ have had are one way specialists, either defensive (Ed Davis, Aminu, Harkless, Turner), or offensive (Melo, Kanter, Meyers, Crabbe). Those players do fine in the regular season but they get schemed off the floor in the playoffs.

The one year DameCJ had a bit of two way productivity with Hood/Collins/Seth Curry they went to the conference finals. Thats without an injured Nurk.

Nurk has contributed a single Blazers playoff win, game 1 against the Lakers this year that seems rather meaningless now. Where's the Nurk hate? Dame also can't seem to pass out of a trap in the playoffs. Game 5 I saw CJ do this better than Dame has in years. Dame seems to avoid criticism on passing out of a simple trap, and now prides himself on how he can shoot a 35 footer instead of an easy pass.

Mostly I blame Neil, but yes Dame/Nurk/CJ have fault in these shortcomings as well. The hate directed exclusively at CJ here is ridiculous though.

 

[pougie]

I definitely think we need a backup point guard. I really want a veteran. Someone that can come in and run the team when Dame is off the floor. I actually love the idea of Rondo or maybe Michael Carter Williams. Someone that plays defense and passes the ball.

The main question in my mind is whether RoCo is a small forward or a power forward? If he's a small forward then we need to go out and get a starting power forward. If he's a power forward then we need to go out and get a wing. I want to deal CJ for one of those positions and start GTJ. My dream scenario would be Paul George.

Dame
GTJ
George
RoCo
Nurk

This would be a championship caliber lineup. But the Clips likely wouldn't do it, so who else is out there? I would love to get one of Boston's wings. I'm not sure how steep the price would be though. DeRozan is probably much more gettable, but is he a good fit? Does he play defense?

My goals for this offseason is:
Backup point guard
Starting Wing or Power forward
Bench scorer.

I think PG is the perfect guy to get here, I agree with you on that. I don’t think this is the year to trade CJ though. Realistically, if you use all your available options to improve:

- MLE on a guy like Jae Crowder
- BAE on a similar guy like Jeff Green
- TPE one of the backup bigs from SAC like Rashaun Holmes
- vet min on a serviceable pg like MCW like you’ve said (or Napier, who would be a better shooter)

your record will immensely improve without a drastic change to your core. I really wouldn’t be surprised if a team of Dame/CJ/Covington/Crowder/Nurkic with Napier/Trent/Green/Collins/Holmes (assuming Hood doesn’t re-sign) gets the #3 seed at the end of the year. And with with Trent now being our FOURTH option to defend the Lebrons/Kawhis instead of our FIRST like this playoffs, suddenly I feel much more confident that we could make the finals lol.

Along with one more full year together again will give us more clarity on future options. In a year, we’ll know if Trent is consistent enough to be our full time sg. We’ll also see how other stories develop around the league. On top of that, we’ll get to see another full year of development from Little and Simons. Next summer, PG, Kawhi, and Giannis will all be free agents and maybe if any one of the three become available or opts to find a better situation, we’d have valuable contracts + the young guys + picks we can trade. Say, any of the three demanded a trade this season, a grand package of Crowder’s MLE, CJ’s $29.3m, the young guys, and picks should put us in prime position to enter next playoffs with Dame/Trent/Star/Covington/Nurkic. Suddenly, this scenario sounds too good to be true haha but yeah, I think deciding on whether or not to blow up the Dame/CJ backcourt should be a decision for next summer. Depending on team improvement, CJ’s value should also increase, if not stay the same.

 

[Natebishop3]

Would you prefer profanity? Or do you simply dislike terms that summarize you so well?

I would rather be a realistic "hater" rather than someone that jerks him off like a sunshine pumping fanboi. Better?

 

[blazerkor]

Kinda like how every thread here gets derailed by CJ haters who won't be changing any time soon?

First of all I'm the most guilty of the accusation you are throwing around but calling people who know that this team's success is dependent on us moving on from CJ "haters" just isn't always accurate. I love CJ, I think he's a great character guy off the floor, I think he has one of the sickest handles in the game, he's one of the best in the league at getting his own shot and when tasked with being a lead guard he isn't too selfish on offense. He is an absolutely atrocious defender, do you think he's a good defender? He is a terrible fit next to Dame, do you feel like he fits well next to Dame? When the most glaring need on this team is to get as much value for CJ and move on why wouldn't all roads lead to that conversation? Why would you expect any thread to stay on the rails when his lack of fit so severely derails this team's ability to maximize it's best talent?

 

[tester551]

Mostly I blame Neil, but yes Dame/Nurk/CJ have fault in these shortcomings as well. The hate directed exclusively at CJ here is ridiculous though.

I don't view it that way. I don't think anyone here 'HATES' CJ and it isn't necessarily directed at him.

It's more that we see the faults/issues in the Dame/CJ pairing and that Olshey is unwilling to address these. Olshey gambled on this pairing and has double & tripple downed on it.

 

[LayneStaley]

Crowder please.

 

[Scalma]

 

[tester551]

Great move by Dallas if they can pull it all together.

 

[Hoopguru]

I don't view it that way. I don't think anyone here 'HATES' CJ and it isn't necessarily directed at him.

It's more that we see the faults/issues in the Dame/CJ pairing and that Olshey is unwilling to address these. Olshey gambled on this pairing and has double & tripple downed on it.

Im sure Dame has made it clear that they are a tandem. Neil knows if he pulls the trigger for a CJ trade the player c0ming to us better be an all star caliber.

 

[handiman]

Dallas is assembling a scary offensive team.

 

[handiman]

First of all I'm the most guilty of the accusation you are throwing around but calling people who know that this team's success is dependent on us moving on from CJ "haters" just isn't always accurate. I love CJ, I think he's a great character guy off the floor, I think he has one of the sickest handles in the game, he's one of the best in the league at getting his own shot and when tasked with being a lead guard he isn't too selfish on offense. He is an absolutely atrocious defender, do you think he's a good defender? He is a terrible fit next to Dame, do you feel like he fits well next to Dame? When the most glaring need on this team is to get as much value for CJ and move on why wouldn't all roads lead to that conversation? Why would you expect any thread to stay on the rails when his lack of fit so severely derails this team's ability to maximize it's best talent?

1) You are far too late to the party to be one of the most guilty.

2) I generally skip over your posts because of your disdain for the Enter key.

3) I was critical of Dame and CJ's redundancy long before the CJ hate began, but I've also been realistic enough throughout to realize CJ is no more a part of the problem than Dame is.

4) Dame is as bad on defense as CJ, despite people increasingly giving him a pass there.

 

[blazerkor]

Im sure Dame has made it clear that they are a tandem. Neil knows if he pulls the trigger for a CJ trade the player c0ming to us better be an all star caliber.

I just don't see Dame ever doing that. I view this much more clearly being about Olshey's stubbornness and a blind spot when evaluating Dame's and CJ's skills independently as opposed to combined. I don't know how many times I've heard Dame talk about how this is a business and that anyone can be traded at any time but his loyalty is to this team and city. He loves to compare himself to Dirk, I would say he'd be as cool with the Blazers letting CJ go as Dirk was with letting Nash walk. This is Dame's team but I don't think he lords power over the franchise, maybe I'm wrong, it's just not the way I see it.

 

[Jelloman]

But who is going to be the next Dirk? (GOZ reference)
How many white, tall player who only shoots from perimeter do they need?

 

[blazerkor]

1) You are far too late to the party to be one of the most guilty.

2) I generally skip over your posts because of your disdain for the Enter key.

3) I was critical of Dame and CJ's redundancy long before the CJ hate began, but I've also been realistic enough throughout to realize CJ is no more a part of the problem than Dame is.

4) Dame is as bad on defense as CJ, despite people increasingly giving him a pass there.

I just completely disagree with you about Dame's defense, he is a much more active defender and better than CJ in every single way on defense. That being said, Dame is just an average defender which tells you what I think of CJ's defense. The thing about what your saying overall is that you agree that Dame and CJ don't work well together, so are you saying that you want Dame traded? Because we can not contend with those guys playing major minutes together.

 

[tester551]

Im sure Dame has made it clear that they are a tandem. Neil knows if he pulls the trigger for a CJ trade the player c0ming to us better be an all star caliber.

I'm not so sure that Dame is so 'invested' in this pairing as everyone makes him out to be.
Olshey has had several opportunities to include CJ for an all-star player (PG13, Buttler), and has always withheld him from negotiations.

 

[Hoopguru]

I just don't see Dame ever doing that. I view this much more clearly being about Olshey's stubbornness and a blind spot when evaluating Dame's and CJ's skills independently as opposed to combined. I don't know how many times I've heard Dame talk about how this is a business and that anyone can be traded at any time but his loyalty is to this team and city. He loves to compare himself to Dirk, I would say he'd be as cool with the Blazers letting CJ go as Dirk was with letting Nash walk. This is Dame's team but I don't think he lords power over the franchise, maybe I'm wrong, it's just not the way I see it.

I think when Davis was counted out Dame had a closed door with Paul and conveyed his disappointment. It would depend on who they got and if Dame thought CJ would want greener pastures for himself.

 

[Hoopguru]

I'm not so sure that Dame is so 'invested' in this pairing as everyone makes him out to be.
Olshey has had several opportunities to include CJ for an all-star player (PG13, Buttler), and has always withheld him from negotiations.

Precisely my point.

 

[lawai'a]

Dallas is assembling a scary offensive team.

can they still do sign and trade if they take horoford/green trade? rumor is the hawks are preparing offers for gallo and rondo with straight cap space.

 

[TBpup]

....ANOTHER Draft pick for OKC?

 

[Pinwheel1]

I'm not so sure that Dame is so 'invested' in this pairing as everyone makes him out to be.
Olshey has had several opportunities to include CJ for an all-star player (PG13, Buttler), and has always withheld him from negotiations.

Several opportunities for an all-star player? Who was the GM at Indiana at that time? Wasn't it Prichard?
I doubt he was willing to deal with us. Who were the several other all-stars? Butler, I would have done, but do we really know that those teams asked for CJ? I doubt we turned them down.

 

[Natebishop3]

1) You are far too late to the party to be one of the most guilty.

2) I generally skip over your posts because of your disdain for the Enter key.

3) I was critical of Dame and CJ's redundancy long before the CJ hate began, but I've also been realistic enough throughout to realize CJ is no more a part of the problem than Dame is.

4) Dame is as bad on defense as CJ, despite people increasingly giving him a pass there.

Dame is better than CJ. By a lot. It's not even close. CJ has hot streaks but overall he's a one dimensional tweener who doesn't pass or play defense. The fact that you put him and Dame on the same level.... well... that says a lot.

 

[blazerkor]

Precisely my point.

I'm sorry I just think the team has a lot more room to do what it wants than you are characterizing. If CJ is traded Dame won't do anything petulant. There will be no less effort given towards this team's success or trade demands over the next four seasons and if we win more and get further, like to a championship, I think Dame is more than smart enough to see that it was for his own good. Also when he sees CJ play better when not hindered by Dame's need or rather his superior effectiveness with the ball, I think Dame will be happy for that too.

The fact is, with all of Olshey's talk about this team never really having a shot and him wanting to see what they can do because he thinks they're a genuine contedner, I've known for over a year now that we would have to endure the Dame/CJ mistake at least until the end of this upcoming season. I hope Olshey proves me wrong but again I think it's definitely him, not Dame.