Game Thread 2022-23 Game #38 - BLAZERS @ PACERS - JANUARY 6, 2023 - FRIDAY - 4:00 PM (PDT) ROOT

[riverman]

I think Chauncey has a bit too much..."roll the ball out and let them hoop" instead of managing a two way system and holding starters accountable...Chauncey needs to coach better and he knows it. We're tired, shots aren't falling ..isn't an excuse for those losses......every team is tired in the NBA

 

[illmatic99]

I think Chauncey has a bit too much..."roll the ball out and let them hoop" instead of managing a two way system and holding starters accountable...Chauncey needs to coach better and he knows it. We're tired, shots aren't falling ..isn't an excuse for those losses......every team is tired in the NBA

what gave you this impression? you're describing stotts to a tee. Chauncey is trying to implement a new system -- listen to Dame talk about it in the video I linked above. These are growing pains.

 

[riverman]

what gave you this impression? you're describing stotts to a tee. Chauncey is trying to implement a new system -- listen to Dame talk about it in the video I linked above. These are growing pains.

We disagree....I think Stotts was brilliant at endgame playmaking and challenges, and I think Chauncey kind of sucks at the endgame and timeout or challenge management. I like Stotts coaching style.....I loved the dozen games early with Chauncey on the defensive end but that's history at this point...started out hot and fizzled. Chauncey's win loss record so far is anemic and sure...for good reason last season but this season...we're underachieving period. Dame loves Chauncey ....I like Chauncey but I don't like what I'm seeing at the end of close games and that's on the coach. If you listen to Dame....listen to what he said about Stotts as well...Stotts started him as a rookie and is one of the winningest coaches in Blazer history...Chauncey is something like 43 and 75 so far. This team has more talent than the last 4 rosters Stotts coached but somehow has what I think is less success....Stotts got to the WCF with a one armed backup center and Dame hobbled with core pain. When Chauncey gets to the playoffs...we'll see how much success he has. Nobody wants this team to succeed more than I do but it's not looking promising right now....the Payton game was fun though. I do not wish to get into a Stotts debate though...I've done enough of that for a decade. I still like the guy.

 

[wizenheimer]

@wizenheimer ...to be fair, after this many year in the league, where exactly are "unfamiliar spots on the floor?" Legitimate question, and not purposefully objectionable. It's not like he is being asked to post up 8-10 times a game, or running the dunkers spot. What spots do you feel he is unfamiliar with?

that's way too pedantic.....I was obviously talking about where he gets the ball in the flow of a new offense with nee teammates; I say 'obviously' since I specifically said those things

in the last season he was healthy, 2020-21 he averaged 3 turnovers a game. This season he's averaging 3.3. That's only a 10% increase and anybody who can't acknowledge that could be due to a new role in a new offense with 3 new starters is just coming into the discussion with intransigent bias

as I said, some of the histrionics around here make it seem he's doubled his turnovers instead of them being up just 10%. Have you guys even analyzed what it is you're going on about? Dame has played 26 games. That means 0.3 more turnovers than his 'norm' is 8 fucking turnovers in 26 games. That's right, 8 turnovers is apparently enough for some people here to act like Dame has become Westbrook on crank

 

[illmatic99]

We disagree....I think Stotts was brilliant at endgame playmaking and challenges, and I think Chauncey kind of sucks at the endgame and timeout or challenge management. I like Stotts coaching style.....I loved the dozen games early with Chauncey on the defensive end but that's history at this point...started out hot and fizzled. Chauncey's win loss record so far is anemic and sure...for good reason last season but this season...we're underachieving period. Dame loves Chauncey ....I like Chauncrey but I don't like what I'm seeing at the end of close games and that's on the coach. If you listen to Dame....listen to what he said about Stotts as well...Stotts started him as a rookie and is one of the winningest coaches in Blazer history...Chauncey is something like 43 and 75 so far.

last 15 games, we have had a top 10 defense and a top 10 offense

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/advanced?dir=A&sort=OFF_RATING

advanced stats are all pointing in the right direction. just missing shots. and our tov% needs to get in control. Think it will with time.

Given where the rest of the teams are in the west, if we can figure out a few things here and there, we can create separation come March.

 

[PCmor7]

what is more likely:

a) that in his 11th season he has suddenly become more careless with the ball for no reason at all;

B) or that in his first season playing off the ball in Chauncey's new offense with 3 new starters, his role has changed enough that he's getting the ball in unfamiliar spots on the floor and later in the shot clock resulting in more turnovers

If you qualify it as "no reason at all,' of course the answer is b. There's a reason and b certainly is likely to be part of it.

Is it the only part? I don't know that. Is Dame too ingrained with the idea that he was to do spectacular things, even if they are unnecessary? Maybe. I've known people like that. Is he still not right physically? Personally, I think this might be part of it, too ... I've said several times I don't think he looks right and I don't think it's just that he's aged because he's looked really good on occasion this year.

I think there are a whole lot of things at play. I hope I'm wrong about the injury, because most of the others can and probably will work themselves out, but it's frustrating watching that process.

 

[wizenheimer]

a little more perspective:

 

[PCmor7]

That's the best way to describe how I feel about this team. I'm cautiously optimistic, but I'm also frustrated.

 

[riverman]

last 15 games, we have had a top 10 defense and a top 10 offense

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/advanced?dir=A&sort=OFF_RATING

advanced stats are all pointing in the right direction. just missing shots.

When we defend well we can't shoot...when we shoot well we can't defend is what I've been seeing and the problem with stats is that say with turnovers you have to consider when they happen...if it's in the fourth quarter it's much more impactful than early in a game....we've been turning it over in the clutch...our turnover rate is pretty bad this season. Steve Nash had a ton of turnovers when he won 2 MVPs but his assists were off the charts and his turnovers weren't at critical times leading to losses.

 

[PCmor7]

a little more perspective:

View attachment 52678

Not sure this is applicable to what I'm saying, which is measuring Dame against himself and the standard and benchmark he's set, not various other players.

 

[wizenheimer]

Not sure this is applicable to what I'm saying, which is measuring Dame against himself and the standard and benchmark he's set, not various other players.

ok...measuring Dame against himself his per/game average over the prior 3 seasons is right around 3 turnovers/game. He's at 3.3 this season; so he's up about 0.3/game. As I said earlier, in the 26 games he's played that means his total turnovers are about 8 more than what his norm would indicate....the 'measuring against himself' standard. He has 86; at 3 trn/game he'd have 78.

I would suggest that the perception you have about his turnover issue is exaggerated compared to the actual numbers. And as I pointed out, that minor uptick in turnovers can easily be argued as due to a new offense, under a new coach, playing with 3 new starters and 7 new rotational teammates

 

[blazerfan11]

what is more likely:

a) that in his 11th season he has suddenly become more careless with the ball for no reason at all;

B) or that in his first season playing off the ball in Chauncey's new offense with 3 new starters, his role has changed enough that he's getting the ball in unfamiliar spots on the floor and later in the shot clock resulting in more turnovers

******************************************************

some numbers I'm looking at...

turnovers/game:

2019-20 2.9
2020-21 3.0
2021-22 2.9
2022-23 3.3

so, 0.4 turnovers/game more while he's adjusting to a new offense and 3 new starting teammates. The way some of you are talking it's like he's doubled his turnovers

****************************************************************

3 point attempt rate:

2018-19 .419
2019-20 .500
2020-21 .528
2021-22 .514
2022-23 .568

% of FGA at rim:

2018-19 .297
2019-20 .295
2020-21 .238
2021-22 .239
2022-23 .213

I don't believe he should be shooting that high a rate of three's, or that low a rate at the rim. If this is scheme, it needs to be adjusted. And Dame should exercise some shot selection here. He doesn't have to subtract a couple of three's a game and drive all the way to the rim; he's shooting by far his highest percentage in the 3-10' zone. 48.9% in that zone and 43.8% in the 10-16' zone. Those are good mid-range numbers, the best of his career, by far, and he'd be more likely to draw shooting fouls there

In the game against Golden State, on one possession Lillard calmly navigated through the defense and hit a mid-range jumper reminiscent of Chris Paul, DeMar Derozan etc.
It would be great to see more of that, especially when the 3-pointer isn't falling or the team is in a scoring drought and desperately needs a bucket.

 

[blazerfan11]

I think a healthy Gary Payton will make a noticeable difference.

 

[riverman]

I think a healthy Gary Payton will make a noticeable difference.

It sure did for one game but that wasn't a tough team to beat either.