4 centers

[cheesehoff]

If Ayton was so desirable, Phoenix wouldn't have swapped him for Nurk and he wouldn't be trade fodder. The concept of DA is what makes him attractive. But he hasn't consistently played up to that ideal. He's a good guy without that edge that would push him into elite center territory. He's like empty calories.
He's not the long term center so if there's a good offer I'd think long and hard about moving him.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

If Ayton was so desirable, Phoenix wouldn't have swapped him for Nurk and he wouldn't be trade fodder. The concept of DA is what makes him attractive. But he hasn't consistently played up to that ideal. He's a good guy without that edge that would push him into elite center territory. He's like empty calories.
He's not the long term center so if there's a good offer I'd think long and hard about moving him.

If there's a good offer, we shouldn't have to think long about it at all. I just don't expect to see one.

 

[Phatguysrule]

If there's a good offer, we shouldn't have to think long about it at all. I just don't expect to see one.

But of the choices given he is clearly the superior option. At least he can play long stretches in most games effectively.

 

[Pinwheel1]

If Ayton was so desirable, Phoenix wouldn't have swapped him for Nurk and he wouldn't be trade fodder. The concept of DA is what makes him attractive. But he hasn't consistently played up to that ideal. He's a good guy without that edge that would push him into elite center territory. He's like empty calories.
He's not the long term center so if there's a good offer I'd think long and hard about moving him.

Seems more of a Phoenix fuck up to me. He helped get them to the finals and he played well in the finals. How many of our centers have? Yes, one can debate his contract is too high because a team needs multiple centers. So yes I would prefer to have two centers making around 17 million than 1 making 34. Unless you have a 2-way all-star center. But how many of those are out there?

Ayton is a good offensive center and Clingan has the potential to be a good defensive center. Seems like a good duo. I am in favor of letting it play out for the next two years. The market will dictate how much Ayton should get with his next contract. I personally would extend him at around 25 million per year.

 

[kjironman1]

Seems more of a Phoenix fuck up to me. He helped get them to the finals and he played well in the finals. How many of our centers have? Yes, one can debate his contract is too high because a team needs multiple centers. So yes I would prefer to have two centers making around 17 million than 1 making 34. Unless you have a 2-way all-star center. But how many of those are out there?

Ayton is a good offensive center and Clingan has the potential to be a good defensive center. Seems like a good duo. I am in favor of letting it play out for the next two years. The market will dictate how much Ayton should get with his next contract. I personally would extend him at around 25 million per year.

His contract will be considered expiring next season. I just don't expect him to be the highest paid player on the team after this year. $35 million just seems like way too much for what he is bringing for a team that is tanking. The tanking part makes this like who really cares? They got to spend the money somewhere? Teams have to pay at least 126 million or something like that?

 

[Cugel]

PHX is not a good example of how to make a roster

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Seems more of a Phoenix fuck up to me. He helped get them to the finals and he played well in the finals.

And yet they traded him. Let's think why:
1. They are completely incompetent (your choice) or
2. The only one getting Ayton to focus was Chris Paul, but Ayton hated it (and him) and he left

The fact that the Suns traded him is an indictment of him, not them.

Again, if you put Jimmy Butler's brain in Ayton's body, you'd have an MVP candidate. But Ayton doesn't have the drive to be great, and if you coach him long enough you get exhausted by that.

I mean, watch the Bahamas games from this Summer. A player like Ayton should be dominating those games like prime Shaq and he didn't even look like the best player on the Bahamas team (that would be VJ "next Dwyane Wade" Edgecombe).

 

[julius]

Yet the Blazers traded Nurk, must be Nurks fault. Blazers traded Dame, must be his fault. Blazers traded CJ, must be CJ's fault. Blazers traded Hart, must be Hart's fault.

Suns traded Toumani, must be Tous fault.

Still waiting for you to admit that there are 0 teams that would take Duop or Timelord as their starter over DA.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Perhaps I'm most disappointed with Ayton because I was actually really in favor of acquiring him. I thought he had the skills of a true modern center of being able to guard the perimeter AND the paint, as well as having a great little jump shot. But he's a surprisingly meh defender. Apparently he just doesn't have the instincts to use his fantastic athleticism to good effect. And he's pretty clueless on offense, mainly because he's kind of tentative. He gets sulky if he's not fed the ball, but he doesn't have any go-to moves and can be flustered if crowded. I mean, if he only had a Rasheed/Aldridge turn around jumper he'd be ten times more useful. But I wouldn't care about that if he was elite on defense, because the center is the MOST important defensive player, so you can least afford to have a center who's average at that. This is why his on/off numbers are very pedestrian, and why the team actually looked better with Duop last season.

He's a good rebounder at least, but I'm willing to bet that Clingan will be at least as good and a far better defender, and at a fraction of the cost.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Still waiting for you to admit that there are 0 teams that would take Duop or Timelord as their starter over DA.

A better question might be how many NBA teams would take DA over their current starting center (considering salary).

 

[julius]

A better question might be how many NBA teams would take DA over their current starting center (considering salary).

Not sure why that's a better question, since we were talking in context to Duop, Robert, Donovan and DeAndre.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Suns traded Toumani, must be Tous fault.

The Suns didn't want to trade Toumani but they were so keen to offload Ayton that they accepted the Blazers' demand for him.

Still waiting for you to admit that there are 0 teams that would take Duop or Timelord as their starter over DA.

Keep waiting. Here's what you actually said:

30 teams out of 30 teams would take him as their starter over Reath or Williams.

I take "would take him" to mean "accept him in trade" (otherwise you'd say something like "30 of 30 teams that had all three would start Ayton"). And that's obviously false - other teams are not going to trade for Ayton at that salary.

If Williams and Ayton were both healthy then Williams has the better advanced stats. And I believe that Clingan will have far superior advanced stats as well. Now there are other reasons to start Ayton, but I don't think they're good ones even if some coaches follow them:
1. He's paid more.
2. He'll sulk and be even more unproductive if you don't start him.
3. There's a pecking order and you have to follow it, and he's at the top

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Not sure why that's a better question, since we were talking in context to Duop, Robert, Donovan and DeAndre.

Because if we're keeping DA, it would be so he could start at C. If we're keeping him at C, one would hope that he's not the least desirable starter in the league. If he is the least desirable starter in the league, then he most certainly would not be worth keeping over the significantly-less-expensive options.

 

[julius]

Because if we're keeping DA, it would be so he could start at C. If we're keeping him at C, one would hope that he's not the least desirable starter in the league. If he is the least desirable starter in the league, then he most certainly would not be worth keeping over the significantly-less-expensive options.

Maybe we should let Donovan show he can play more than 15-20 minutes at a time before we worry about things?

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Maybe we should let Donovan show he can play more than 15-20 minutes at a time before we worry about things?

So to be clear, you're saying to keep Ayton because he is a best option we currently have as a starting C, and might need to continue being the starter if Clingan doesn't show himself capable of being one, but if Clingan does show himself capable of being a starter, then you'd be onboard with dealing Ayton? Is that about the size of it?

 

[julius]

So to be clear, you're saying to keep Ayton because he is a best option we currently have as a starting C, and might need to continue being the starter if Clingan doesn't show himself capable of being one, but if Clingan does show himself capable of being a starter, then you'd be onboard with dealing Ayton? Is that about the size of it?

Sure, but add to it "it might take a while for Clingan to show he is capable of being a starter".

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Sure, but add to it "it might take a while for Clingan to show he is capable of being a starter".

If we're tanking this year, why exactly does it matter whether we have a capable starting center for this season?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

 

[Pinwheel1]

And yet they traded him. Let's think why:
1. They are completely incompetent (your choice) or
2. The only one getting Ayton to focus was Chris Paul, but Ayton hated it (and him) and he left

The fact that the Suns traded him is an indictment of him, not them.

Again, if you put Jimmy Butler's brain in Ayton's body, you'd have an MVP candidate. But Ayton doesn't have the drive to be great, and if you coach him long enough you get exhausted by that.

I mean, watch the Bahamas games from this Summer. A player like Ayton should be dominating those games like prime Shaq and he didn't even look like the best player on the Bahamas team (that would be VJ "next Dwyane Wade" Edgecombe).

I lean towards option #1-incompetent, based on the trade that sent Mikal Bridges, Cam Johnson, Jae Crowder and four unprotected future first-round picks for the 34-year-old KD just 3 days after their new owner took over. Thus breaking up a team that went to the finals the year before.

This tells me the new owner, a wholesale mortgage CEO, made an emotional decision and not a basketball decision. Sorry if I question every basketball decision he makes after that.

 

[julius]

If we're tanking this year, why exactly does it matter whether we have a capable starting center for this season?

same reason why throwing Scoot out there from the get-go wasn't the smartest idea in the world.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

same reason why throwing Scoot out there from the get-go wasn't the smartest idea in the world.

Who said anything about DC starting? We could start Reath and still bring Clingan off the bench, and probably improve our chances at capturing the Flagg.

 

[Phatguysrule]

If we're tanking this year, why exactly does it matter whether we have a capable starting center for this season?

It doesn't. We should trade him if we feel we can get a good pick. Especially if we don't think he is going to get his head right.

 

[Whyachi]

Who said anything about DC starting? We could start Reath and still bring Clingan off the bench, and probably improve our chances at capturing the Flagg.

Reath started 20 games last season. Moses Brown started 5 games, and somehow Coach Billups snuck Ibou Badji into the starting lineup for 1 game.

trust me... Clingan is going to get a handful of NBA starts.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

 

[Whyachi]

swappy firsty Chicagowy opty

I got lost reading that Reddit

 

[jlprk]

He gets sulky if he's not fed the ball

2. He'll sulk and be even more unproductive if you don't start him.

Especially if we don't think he is going to get his head right.

I haven't seen him sulk. This was what some Suns said after Durant arrived and their Big 3 got all the shots. Other Suns weren't happy either. But as a Blazer, he's been a joy, and you and Quick are just copying the Suns fans. Once he returned from the long injury, he showed that he was our best player. (Maybe tied with Brogdon.)

 

[jlprk]

Yet the Blazers traded Nurk, must be Nurks fault. Blazers traded Dame, must be his fault. Blazers traded CJ, must be CJ's fault. Blazers traded Hart, must be Hart's fault.

Suns traded Toumani, must be Tous fault.

Still waiting for you to admit that there are 0 teams that would take Duop or Timelord as their starter over DA.

But but...Ayton is overpaid. You sure can't blame the Suns for THAT. They just were victims of a violent robbery. (Julius made a good post, in case someone can't read sarcasm.)

The serious answer to the overpaid criticism in this thread is, it was factored into his trade price. It's not a surprise now. If Phoenix hadn't overpaid him, another team would have paid the Suns more than Nurkic, Little, and Keon.

 

[riverman]

But but...Ayton is overpaid. You sure can't blame the Suns for THAT. They just were victims of a violent robbery. (Julius made a good post, in case someone can't read sarcasm.)

The serious answer to the overpaid criticism in this thread is, it was factored into his trade price. It's not a surprise now. If Phoenix hadn't overpaid him, another team would have paid the Suns more than Nurkic, Little, and Keon.

We also got Toumani on that trade which was a steal in my view. Little and Johnson I believe are out of the league already

 

[Phatguysrule]

I haven't seen him sulk. This was what some Suns said after Durant arrived and their Big 3 got all the shots. Other Suns weren't happy either. But as a Blazer, he's been a joy, and you and Quick are just copying the Suns fans. Once he returned from the long injury, he showed that he was our best player. (Maybe tied with Brogdon.)

Yeah, I think there is a chance he could be fine. I'm okay with keeping him for a bit longer before making a decision. Hopefully he proves the doubters wrong.

His statement about being a max player wasn't a great indicator of his competitiveness...

I would consider trading him for the right draft capital.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I haven't seen him sulk. This was what some Suns said after Durant arrived and their Big 3 got all the shots. Other Suns weren't happy either. But as a Blazer, he's been a joy, and you and Quick are just copying the Suns fans. Once he returned from the long injury, he showed that he was our best player. (Maybe tied with Brogdon.)

"Joy"?
You're right that I am probably being a bit unfair with the "sulk" because he seems like an upbeat person. But (a) Brogdon was clearly better, and (b) we were shit anyway.

If Ayton was signed for Timelord's salary he'd be a bargain. But he'd still be an indifferent defender at a position where you can't afford to have anything but a plus defender. He's "meh", which is particularly galling, because somebody who was driven to be great and had his natural physical gifts could be a top five player in the league.