4 year degree vs a 2 year degree

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mook said:
fwiw--I plan on bankrolling my sons to screw around for 3-6 months backpacking around the world right after high school. Well, maybe not bankroll, but I'll help them if I can get them work to help them pay the way. I got a lot more out of backpacking than I did out of any semester in college.

I always respected Australians and the walkabout ethic. You can go anywhere on the damned planet and you'll meet Australians. I want my kids to think about the world like an Australian does, an interesting place to explore and see, and someday down the road you settle down and figure your future out.

The most annoying thing is somebody proud of their country who has no other country to compare it to. I'd hate to see my sons be diehard Englishmen or Americans without seeing how other places work.
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Australians. The only foreign tourists that make amurricans look civilized and polite.
 
I have come to the belief that the most important thing is to identify something that you have a passion for, acquire the knowledge to do that thing and follow through. Case in point, a friend of mine spent six years as an army scout, three tours in Baghdad, comes home and attends OSU for three years to become a Geologist..he realized just a few month ago that the limited income potential and the lack of in the field work was going to be a snooze fest. So he took the last of his GI bill and is learning to be an underwater welder..much more exciting, unlimited income potential and world travel. He will finish his education at his leisure now and make more part time than grinding for a government paycheck at best or being the lap dog of some oil company..
 
You can't ever go wrong going to school. 4 years is great, and a graduate degree is even better.

I always wanted to write, but even though I went to an impressive undergraduate school (back when it was far easier to get into college), no one took me seriously until I had a law degree. Now I've written 15 books and don't have to practice law anymore. But it was that degree that made the difference.

My oldest daughter dropped out of Lewis and Clark after a year (that killed me!), but 7 years later, she is now finishing her degree at PSU because she found she couldn't even get a job teaching English abroad without a degree.

You cannot go wrong getting with education.
 
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I got a Sociology BA from a UC school (4 year), graduated June 2012. Its working out pretty well for me, but I've been really lucky too and made the most of some opportunities. Most of my other friends with 4 year degrees aren't doing as well. Some of those are from well off families and could probably pull a solid entry level job if they wanted, but they're content to coast while planning on grad school in the near future. The ones who are really struggling are kind of stuck. I think its not considered THAT big of a crisis because a lot of people in the U.S. are struggling so there isn't a ton of sympathy or surprise when these kids can't get jobs with 0 experience. But having struggled for a while it REALLY sucks, you do realize quickly that there are a ton of people in the same boat though.

My other friends who either got 2 year degrees or only graduated high school are all doing better than myself and my friends who just graduated if you just look at it right now. But you can really see the difference in potential between the two. I'm basically their equal and they've slowly worked their way up for the last 5+ years and are basically as far as they can go without some kind of degree. 11 months into my career I'm caught up to them, and probably project to skyrocket past them over time. My other friends with 4 yr degrees aren't making as much now but many have the beginnings of careers going and if I had to bet on who makes more long term I take the people with the 4 year degree all day (of course I'm probably biased).

That said I know a lot of really successful 2 year stories. If you excel in 2 year and have a plan you can do very well. I know people who were average high school students, improved a lot in CC as a student (for a variety of obvious reasons), transferred to a high quality 4 year school and some of them continue to even higher education. I would absolutely recommend that to certain people if they are unsure about whether they want the 4 year college experience right out of HS. The main warning I have against them is that some people get entrenched at CCs for years and years just kind of floating along stacking up AAs that have no actual value other than qualifying you to become further educated.
 
I don't know what the working environment will be 15 years from now and there is always stories about people who succeeded with less (Gates and Allen didn't even graduate) . . . but if you don't want any doors closed and as many career options as possible, the 4 year degree seems like the obvious choice. Whatever the tuition amortization over 20-30 yrs (or whatever the career length) seems like a good investment.
 
Since we're ultimately talking life choices/decisions.... Teach your kids it's not how much they make, it's how much they spend.
 
blazerboy30 said:
What are your thoughts?
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You already know my thoughts on this subject.

I have only a high school diploma and I make more than many of my friends with 4 year degrees. Including my brother, who is in debt big time from student loans. Its a sore subject.

Society tells us we need to go to college to be 'successful'. Pure BS.
 
I'm not saying your pay wage shouldn't be important but a good 401K retirement plan is more important. There are a lot of companies that work your ass off and you don't get shit to show for it in the end.
 
BigGameDamian said:
I'm not saying your pay wage shouldn't be important but a good 401K retirement plan is more important. There are a lot of companies that work your ass off and you don't get shit to show for it in the end.
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Here's a hint: it's all of them.

barfo
 
http://www.jamesaltucher.com/2011/0...arents-should-not-send-their-kids-to-college/

If you are a parent and wish to send your kids to a college then, just to summarize, here is what you are paying for:

your kids are going to have sex 1- 5 times a day with people you probably wouldn’t approve of.

your kids are going to drink, smoke pot, probably try LSD and other drugs before you even get home

your kids are going to cheat on most of their exams. When I first started college I wanted to be a psychologist. I read every book on psychology. In Psych 101 I got a D- on my first exam, which was graded on a curve. Apparently the other 2000 kids in the class had access to older exams which were stored at all the fraternities and the professor never changed the exams. I had to ultimately drop Psych as a major. My dad said, “why do you want to major in Psychology anyway. Girls won’t like you because you won’t make any money as a psychologist.” I said, “but then I’ll never know if the girls like me for money or not?” And he said, “Girls won’t like you because you have money. They’ll like you because YOU ARE THE KIND OF GUY who can make a lot of money.”

your kids are going to make connections with other like-minded individuals (people focused on drugs, socialism, sex 24 hours a day (not a bad thing), people cheating on exams, and people with rich parents who will help your kids get jobs at Goldman Sachs).

your kids are going to think they are smarter than you almost immediately.

while you are working 60 hours a week and borrowing money to send your kids to college, your kids will be sleeping good chunks of the day, relaxing on the weekends, and enjoying the blissful pleasures of the lazy life for another four years until the real world hits.
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Schools are going to change drastically over the next decade or 2, several times. The days of living at or even physically attending a college are soon to be nearly obsolete. And that's a good thing. You can learn much quicker when you have no travel time, no small talk, no breaks unless you want them...and the cost per student would be maybe 1,000th or 100,000th of today's tuition.
 
My balln' does all the talk on these here streets bruh.

Get off my court.
 
Gates & Allen didn't get their degrees, but I'll bet Microsoft is hiring a hell of a lot of college graduates and they probably start higher than the high school or 2 year grads.

Of course there are exceptions; John Lennon dropped out of school and became a millionaire and world famous. Most of us aren't geniuses and aren't going to be in a one-in-a-million situation.

Trouble with finding what you have a passion for is that it isn't always obvious. It can take a lot of false starts to get from here to there.

There is a saying in Talmud that learning should not be a shovel to dig with; in other words, learning is not just about making a living but is important for its own sake. That being said, one need not go to college to learn. It should be lifetime.
 
MickZagger said:
You already know my thoughts on this subject.

I have only a high school diploma and I make more than many of my friends with 4 year degrees. Including my brother, who is in debt big time from student loans. Its a sore subject.

Society tells us we need to go to college to be 'successful'. Pure BS.
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I don't think anybody here has said you "need" to go to college to be financially successful. But it is much more likely.
 
Stevenson said:
You can't ever go wrong going to school. 4 years is great, and a graduate degree is even better.

I always wanted to write, but even though I went to an impressive undergraduate school (back when it was far easier to get into college), no one took me seriously until I had a law degree. Now I've written 15 books and don't have to practice law anymore. But it was that degree that made the difference.

My oldest daughter dropped out of Lewis and Clark after a year (that killed me!), but 7 years later, she is now finishing her degree at PSU because she found she couldn't even get a job teaching English abroad without a degree.

You cannot go wrong getting with education.
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I've seen plenty of stories proving your point wrong. Some people can and have gone wrong by going to school. Ridiculous expenses and them not being able to get a decent job after graduating. It's happened to several of my friends and I've read about countless similar situations. A large amount of debt and no way to pay it back, even with a degree.

Sent from my banana using Tapatalk 4
 
VanillaGorilla said:
I've seen plenty of stories proving your point wrong. Some people can and have gone wrong by going to school. Ridiculous expenses and them not being able to get a decent job after graduating. It's happened to several of my friends and I've read about countless similar situations. A large amount of debt and no way to pay it back, even with a degree.

Sent from my banana using Tapatalk 4
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Obviously there are exceptions and people have friends-of-friends, or stories, etc. But the statistics show that getting a 4-year degree is worth it, financially, in the long run.
 
Yeah, basically you have to play a game of "most likely". If you don't go to college, most likely you'll be lower class. If you do graduate from college, "most likely" you'll be middle class. If you get an advanced degree, "most likely" you'll be upper middle class.
 
VanillaGorilla said:
I've seen plenty of stories proving your point wrong. Some people can and have gone wrong by going to school. Ridiculous expenses and them not being able to get a decent job after graduating. It's happened to several of my friends and I've read about countless similar situations. A large amount of debt and no way to pay it back, even with a degree.

Sent from my banana using Tapatalk 4
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I agree that going to school is bad for some. Many waste the time, party or just don't give school any focus, and don't graduate. Even without graduating, going to school can still be a positive experience for any number of reasons (like networking), but it's still not the best option for everyone.

In addition..... Given the recent recession and stagnation we've been in now for several years, or lack of boom or whatever you want to call it...... higher unemployment rates.... it has been quite difficult for those who have graduated in the last 3-6 years to find jobs out of college, so many have settled for something less than, say, previous generations would have had to settle for. I've seen references to this group as the "lost generation" of American workers. While many who found their way have been successful, many have struggled to break through. I am shocked how many people I know in the 24-29 age range that have struggled to find work, fresh out of school. While I know much of this may have to do with the economy over the last few years, I also feel like it comes for the self-entitlement some of these kids have. I can't believe how many people simply expect a job to fall into their lap, like it's owed to them.
 
blazerboy30 said:
Obviously there are exceptions and people have friends-of-friends, or stories, etc. But the statistics show that getting a 4-year degree is worth it, financially, in the long run.
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Oh, I agree. I was just saying there are exceptions. Meaning sometimes, more education doesn't work out as it should.

Aren't there some degrees that just suck at getting jobs?
 
Careers will be increasingly rarer and rarer in the future. It'll be all about freelancers and outsourcing (even to people in the US). Workers are disposible now.
 
VanillaGorilla said:
Oh, I agree. I was just saying there are exceptions. Meaning sometimes, more education doesn't work out as it should.

Aren't there some degrees that just suck at getting jobs?
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The degree is simply something an automated HR program uses to weed out those without one.
 
BLAZINGGIANTS said:
I agree that going to school is bad for some. Many waste the time, party or just don't give school any focus, and don't graduate. Even without graduating, going to school can still be a positive experience for any number of reasons (like networking), but it's still not the best option for everyone.

In addition..... Given the recent recession and stagnation we've been in now for several years, or lack of boom or whatever you want to call it...... higher unemployment rates.... it has been quite difficult for those who have graduated in the last 3-6 years to find jobs out of college, so many have settled for something less than, say, previous generations would have had to settle for. I've seen references to this group as the "lost generation" of American workers. While many who found their way have been successful, many have struggled to break through. I am shocked how many people I know in the 24-29 age range that have struggled to find work, fresh out of school. While I know much of this may have to do with the economy over the last few years, I also feel like it comes for the self-entitlement some of these kids have. I can't believe how many people simply expect a job to fall into their lap, like it's owed to them.
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As shown in an earlier post in this thread, students graduating now pay an incredible amount more than people used to, and have way less jobs to choose from. I think the sense of entitlement this is bologna, that has always existed. That's just an excuse, a way to blame the young, when they had no part in making it this way.
 
VanillaGorilla said:
Oh, I agree. I was just saying there are exceptions. Meaning sometimes, more education doesn't work out as it should.

Aren't there some degrees that just suck at getting jobs?
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The comment VG did respond to did say "you can't ever go wrong going to school." I think VG was responding to such guarantee with the fact that it can be wrong.

I agree with your comment about some degrees and the related available jobs. I had a friend study sociology. You aren't going to do much with that, not without doing something completely different (rendering the degree worthless). My wife's cousin had to get her doctorate before she got a real job, and while it pays the bills, the cousin lives in an expensive area on the East Coast, and makes quite a bit less than my wife or me, so I'm not sure how she manages. A few other people have brought up good examples in the thread about certain degrees. Before I started college, I had a plan of what I'd study, I knew what I could make, I knew what routes I'd have to take after getting the first degree if I wanted to go deeper into school, etc.
 
VanillaGorilla said:
As shown in an earlier post in this thread, students graduating now pay an incredible amount more than people used to, and have way less jobs to choose from. I think the sense of entitlement this is bologna, that has always existed. That's just an excuse, a way to blame the young, when they had no part in making it this way.
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Says the younger generation.

I'm not saying it hasn't always existed, but it's gotten worse. And the younger generation makes it looks worse, because they're standing around like, "Yo, where's my job?" Half-assing it and sending mass resumes to a ton of companies via email/websites works for a few. You gotta get out there and earn your position, FAMS!
 
BLAZINGGIANTS said:
Says the younger generation.

I'm not saying it hasn't always existed, but it's gotten worse. And the younger generation makes it looks worse, because they're standing around like, "Yo, where's my job?" Half-assing it and sending mass resumes to a ton of companies via email/websites works for a few. You gotta get out there and earn your position, FAMS!
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No, it looks worse because there are no jobs, so you hear of more people looking for them and complaining about it.
 
VanillaGorilla said:
No, it looks worse because there are no jobs, so you hear of more people looking for them and complaining about it.
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At least of my friends and family, the ones that put forth a legit effort found solid jobs (something beyond just emailing basic resumes out over and over). And the complaining....... listening to the complaining about how they can't believe nobody will give me a job..... the pity party.... boo fucking hooo...... it's sad, really. I started at the bottom doing shit jobs. I worked my ass off to network and find/create an opportunity. So, yeah, it's a lot more than just the higher unemployment. Especially now that unemployment is supposedly on the decline.
 
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