66 & 67 on the books! Good for Oregon

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Sug

Sug

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Nice work beating back the big money ads. :cheers:

http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2010/01/voters_pass_tax_measures_by_bi.html

Oregon voters bucked decades of anti-tax and anti-Salem sentiment Tuesday, raising taxes on corporations and the wealthy to prevent further erosion of public schools and other state services.

The tax measures passed easily, with late returns showing a 54 percent to 46 percent ratio. Measure 66 raises taxes on households with taxable income above $250,000, and Measure 67 sets higher minimum taxes on corporations and increases the tax rate on upper-level profits.

The results triggered waves of relief from educators and legislative leaders, who were facing an estimated $727 million shortfall in the current two-year budget if the measures failed.

"We're absolutely ecstatic," said Hanna Vandering, a physical education teacher from Beaverton and vice president of the statewide teachers union. "What Oregonians said today is they believe in public education and vital services."
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Such bullshit. Every fucking election they have a new tax "for the children". Every election they come down and cry about our schools. For over a year now I've had people come into my classrooms and attempt to strike fear by claiming that our tuition is going to go up if we don't pass the next tax. It's all fucking bullshit. The tax passes, nothing happens for the schools, and they use the same lame ass excuse the next time around.

They told me my tuition would go up if we didn't pass the PCC tax last year. Guess what? The tuition went up anyway. They're all fucking liars. They use schools and children as a catalyst to get their bills passed, and then they don't use the money on schools or children. Someone should be punished for this fraudulent advertising. We have one of the worst state governments in the country. They can't balance their own budget, so they raise taxes to meet the budget.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Such bullshit. Every fucking election they have a new tax "for the children". Every election they come down and cry about our schools. For over a year now I've had people come into my classrooms and attempt to strike fear by claiming that our tuition is going to go up if we don't pass the next tax. It's all fucking bullshit. The tax passes, nothing happens for the schools, and they use the same lame ass excuse the next time around.

They told me my tuition would go up if we didn't pass the PCC tax last year. Guess what? The tuition went up anyway. They're all fucking liars. They use schools and children as a catalyst to get their bills passed, and then they don't use the money on schools or children. Someone should be punished for this fraudulent advertising. We have one of the worst state governments in the country. They can't balance their own budget, so they raise taxes to meet the budget.
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Where do you think the money goes?
 
Sug said:
Where do you think the money goes?
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You tell me? Explain to me how admissions at PCC and PSU are the highest they've been in decades, and yet tuition goes up. Explain how they could possibly need cutbacks? The money aint going to schools.
 
Natebishop3 said:
You tell me? Explain to me how admissions at PCC and PSU are the highest they've been in decades, and yet tuition goes up. Explain how they could possibly need cutbacks? The money aint going to schools.
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Have you noticed the buildings going up at PSU? :dunno:
 
Sug said:
Please keep track and update us on the business closures and direct impacts. :sherlock:
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Yes, how about some backup to that conservative urban myth. You will remember the last time someone claimed Oregon is 7th worst in the nation for taxes or something like that. I asked for a link and got no answer. Some claim large job migrations. Let's see some numbers. As I said before, some states should show inflows, totalling the outflows of the other states.

Someone said his college enrollment is up, then we hear of construction. Cause and effect. I agree that colleges get too many shiny new buildings. The old ones are left 90% empty.
 
jlprk said:
Yes, how about some backup to that conservative urban myth. You will remember the last time someone claimed Oregon is 7th worst in the nation for taxes or something like that. I asked for a link and got no answer. Some claim large job migrations. Let's see some numbers. As I said before, some states should show inflows, totalling the outflows of the other states.

Someone said his college enrollment is up, then we hear of construction. Cause and effect. I agree that colleges get too many shiny new buildings. The old ones are left 90% empty.
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Someone? I said it like two posts ago. 90% empty my ass. PCC is overflowing with people. There's no parking available. They have the highest enrollment in decades. Where is the money going?
 
Natebishop3 said:
Someone? I said it like two posts ago. 90% empty my ass. PCC is overflowing with people. There's no parking available. They have the highest enrollment in decades. Where is the money going?
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Nate, tuition only pays for 33% of the costs of education at PCC. So if you add more students, and no more revenue from taxes, the school gets poorer, not richer.

It's like saying why does the soup kitchen need more money? There are homeless people lined up around the block to get fed!

Where is the tax money going? It's going to subsidize your education.

barfo
 
jlprk said:
If you can't understand the phrase "cause and effect" you may not be college material.
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Was that comment really necessary?

My point is, you said the old buildings are 90% empty and that's wrong. Wrong at PCC and wrong at PSU. The campus is packed at both schools.
 
A friend of mine is closing his business today. I talked with last night. He has a small business and while this will only cost him about $5,000, it's enough to push him to the curb. The retroactive and new taxes have made it now impossible to stay open and make enough to live on. He also now has instant legal tax problems that may not be solved by bankruptcy. All this to promulgate lavish union retirements in the state that has it on the brink of bankruptcy. And the Californication of what was once a great state continues.... Another victory for the unions.

BTW, contrary to the first post in the thread, according to the Oregonian the "Yes" side well outspent the "No" side.

Still, it was a fair election and the will of Multnomah county prevails for the state. I accept that. Besides, outside of a small amount of new unemployment and a bit higher prices, this has no effect on me- fortunately.
 
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Last night in class, we were discussing the issue of some schools (not in this state) instituting programs in which students were being paid by the schools for grades and test scores. The argument in favor was that many students were underachieving, and that cash-for-grades programs would motivate them to perform better.

What amused me was that one of my classmates, a community college employee and a vocal proponent of 66 & 67, spoke up and pointed out that throwing money at the problem is no more than a cop-out which diverts attention from the real problem, taking the onus off of teachers and administrators to make the necessary effort to ascertain why the kids were not motivated to succeed and what efforts they could make to better facilitate learning.

After her diatribe, I leaned over and told her that she had just perfectly articulated my argument against raising taxes to cover governmental budget shortfalls. She had no response.
 
Sug said:
Nice work beating back the big money ads. :cheers:

http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2010/01/voters_pass_tax_measures_by_bi.html
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No matter what you may believe about Measures 66 and 67, we should at least be truthful about the realities of campaign spending. Public-employee unions raised and spent more than double what business interests did on these measures:

http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2010/01/public-employee_unions_flex_mu.html

Kind of makes you wonder if they might have had more interest in making sure that they maintain their bloated PERS benefits than any real interest in what's best for the longterm interests of the state.
 
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jlprk said:
Yes, how about some backup to that conservative urban myth. You will remember the last time someone claimed Oregon is 7th worst in the nation for taxes or something like that. I asked for a link and got no answer. Some claim large job migrations. Let's see some numbers.
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How about examples of corporations coming here because of the tax breaks and incentives they received?


jlprk said:
As I said before, some states should show inflows, totalling the outflows of the other states.
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Typical lefty crap. Not ever considering that we may want to actually GROW the pie, not just redistribute.

jlprk said:
Someone said his college enrollment is up, then we hear of construction. Cause and effect. I agree that colleges get too many shiny new buildings. The old ones are left 90% empty.
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This is just gibberish.
 
barfo said:
Nate, tuition only pays for 33% of the costs of education at PCC. So if you add more students, and no more revenue from taxes, the school gets poorer, not richer.

It's like saying why does the soup kitchen need more money? There are homeless people lined up around the block to get fed!

Where is the tax money going? It's going to subsidize your education.

barfo
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And to compensation increases in the giant bureaucracy.
 
Considering that Oregon's unemployment rate is in the Top 10 in the country I think passing these measures can have no positive impact. I also agree this is probably more about PERS than most realize.
 
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barfo said:
Nate, tuition only pays for 33% of the costs of education at PCC. So if you add more students, and no more revenue from taxes, the school gets poorer, not richer.

It's like saying why does the soup kitchen need more money? There are homeless people lined up around the block to get fed!
Where is the tax money going? It's going to subsidize your education.

barfo
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Never mind
 
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barfo said:
Nate, tuition only pays for 33% of the costs of education at PCC. So if you add more students, and no more revenue from taxes, the school gets poorer, not richer.

It's like saying why does the soup kitchen need more money? There are homeless people lined up around the block to get fed!

Where is the tax money going? It's going to subsidize your education.

barfo
Click to expand...

I hear what you're trying to say Barfo, but that's a bad analogy. The homeless people aren't paying anything. I'm paying around 2k per term in tuition alone. And yes, part of my education is subsidized, but that's only for a 28 year old without a job. My girlfriend isn't getting any subsidized loans. PSU expects her parents to cover 13k of her expenses per year... they can't.

Students are consistently raped on tuition, books, parking etc. Hell, they charge over $700 for a small dorm that you share with another person. It's highway robbery.
 
BLAZER PROPHET said:
A friend of mine is closing his business today. I talked with last night. He has a small business and while this will only cost him about $5,000, it's enough to push him to the curb. The retroactive and new taxes have made it now impossible to stay open and make enough to live on. He also now has instant legal tax problems that may not be solved by bankruptcy. All this to promulgate lavish union retirements in the state that has it on the brink of bankruptcy. And the Californication of what was once a great state continues.... Another victory for the unions.

BTW, contrary to the first post in the thread, according to the Oregonian the "Yes" side well outspent the "No" side.

Still, it was a fair election and the will of Multnomah county prevails for the state. I accept that. Besides, outside of a small amount of new unemployment and a bit higher prices, this has no effect on me- fortunately.
Click to expand...

My lavish union retirement lost 40% in this recession. I haven't worked since July, yah I'm loving that yes vote.:biglaugh: I am sorry for your friend though. It sucks to have no income, bill collectors calling, plus more taxes.
 
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bintim said:
My lavish union retirement lost 40% in this recession. I haven't worked since July, yah I'm loving that yes vote.:biglaugh: I am sorry for your friend though. It sucks to have no income, bill collectors calling, plus more taxes.
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Did you take that photo at your sig line?
 
Natebishop3 said:
I hear what you're trying to say Barfo, but that's a bad analogy. The homeless people aren't paying anything. I'm paying around 2k per term in tuition alone. And yes, part of my education is subsidized, but that's only for a 28 year old without a job. My girlfriend isn't getting any subsidized loans. PSU expects her parents to cover 13k of her expenses per year... they can't.

Students are consistently raped on tuition, books, parking etc. Hell, they charge over $700 for a small dorm that you share with another person. It's highway robbery.
Click to expand...

It's not, really. I'm not sure you grasped what I was saying. Students don't pay the full cost of their education. None of them do. Let's do the math.

PCC had 26,419 FTE students in 2009. The FTE tuition was $3105. So if all the students paid full tuition, that would raise $82 million. PCC's budget was $275 million last year. So even a student that is paying full tuition is paying only 30% of the cost of his education.

So, who is getting raped here? Is it you, the student? Or is it me, the benevolent taxpayer who is paying for 70% of your education?

How are your grades this term? Are you applying yourself? Money doesn't grow on trees, ya know. I worked hard all my life so you'd have this opportunity. I expect you to make the most of it.

barfo
 
BLAZER PROPHET said:
A friend of mine is closing his business today. I talked with last night. He has a small business and while this will only cost him about $5,000, it's enough to push him to the curb.
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Yet another person who can't do math. I guess this tax bill is sort of Darwinian, it weeds out the weak (of mind) from the businessperson herd.

To have measure 67 cost him an extra $5000, he'd have to be making a profit of $634,000, or else have revenue of over $7 million. In neither of those cases could it possibly make sense to close the business due to a $5K tax bill.

barfo
 
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