9/11 Conspiracy?

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Do you think it was fake?
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>They think the goverment shot down the plane in Pennsylvania.</div>Not true. The passengers called there family members about taking over the plane
 
Yeah I don't think any of that happened, perhaps the US funded the terrorists but they didn't shoot down the planes, that's absurd.
 
The U.S. funded the terrorists...
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Al-Qaeda/Saudi's did most of that.
 
I was just posting it as an alternate theory, I don't think they did necessarily.
 
Maybe the members of the flight aimed the plane at New York, called their families and made up a bogus story, and parachuted out with no one knowing miles before. They are now living in secret caves in Italy and getting everything they want. No one knows they are alive. Yep, I got it now
 
How and why? Of course you will never reply.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>When 9/11 Conspiracy Theories Go BadBy David Corn, AlterNet. Posted March 1, 2002.Theories that the U.S. government aided or engineered the 9/11 attacks aren't just horribly misguided -- they distract from the nefarious deeds our leaders actually do perpetrate. Tools EMAIL PRINT Also in Top StoriesImmigrants RisingFrank Sharry, Pacific News ServiceA Carbon Cloud Hangs Over Green FuelMark Clayton, Christian Science MonitorAll the 'Good News' From IraqStephen Pizzo, News for RealPost Traumatic Slave SyndromeSilja J.A. Talvi, In These TimesOld Big Brother Had a FarmAmanda Griscom Little, Grist MagazineBring the Sixties Out of the ClosetDon Hazen, AlterNetStudent Debts, Stunted LivesNicholas von Hoffman, The NationWalter Mosley's Search for ContextMaria Luisa Tucker, AlterNetInfected PlanetStan Cox, AlterNetThe NYT's Woman ProblemGarance Franke-Ruta, The American ProspectMore stories by David Corn Please stop sending me those emails. You know who are. And you know what emails I mean ... Okay, I'll spell it out -- those forwarded emails suggesting, or flat-out stating, the CIA and the U.S. government were somehow involved in the horrific September 11 attacks.There are emails about a fellow imprisoned in Canada who claims to be a former U.S. intelligence office and who supposedly passed advance warning of the attack to jail guards in mid-August. There are emails, citing an Italian newspaper, reporting that last July Osama bin Laden was treated for kidney disease at the American hospital in Dubai and met with a CIA official. There are the emails, referring to a book published in France, that note the attacks came a month after Bush Administration officials, who were negotiating an oil deal with the Taliban, told the Afghans "either you accept our offer of a carpet of gold, or we bury you under a carpet of bombs."Get the hint? Washington either did nothing to stop the September 11 attacks or plotted the assaults so a justifiable war could then be waged against Afghanistan to benefit Big Oil.One email I keep receiving is a timeline of so-called suspicious events that "establishes CIA foreknowledge of [the September 11 attacks] and strongly suggests that there was criminal complicity on the part of the U.S. government in their execution."I won't argue that the U.S. government does not engage in brutal, murderous skulduggery from time to time. But the notion that the U.S. government either detected the attacks but allowed them to occur, or, worse, conspired to kill thousands of Americans to launch a war-for-oil in Afghanistan is absurd. Still, each week emails passing on such tripe arrive. This crap is probably not worth a rational rebuttal, but I'm irritated enough to try.It's a mug's game to refute individual pieces of conspiracy theories. Who can really know if anything that bizarre happened at a Dubai hospital? As for the man jailed in Canada, he was being held on a credit card fraud charge, and the only source for the story about his warning was his own word. The judge in his case said, "There is no independent evidence to support his colossal allegations." But a conspiracy-monges can reply, wouldn't you expect the government and its friends in Canada to say that?So let's start with a broad question: would U.S. officials be capable of such a foul deed? Capable -- as in able to pull it off and willing to do so. Simply put, the spies and special agents are not good enough, evil enough, or gutsy enough to mount this operation. That conclusion is based partly on, dare I say it, common sense, but also on years spent covering national security matters. (For a book I wrote on the CIA, I interviewed over 100 CIA officials and employees.)Not good enough: Such a plot -- to execute the simultaneous destruction of the two towers, a piece of the Pentagon, and four airplanes and make it appear as if it all was done by another party -- is far beyond the skill level of U.S. intelligence. It would require dozens (or scores or hundreds) of individuals to attempt such a scheme. They would have to work together, and trust one another not to blow their part or reveal the conspiracy. They would hail from an assortment of agencies (CIA, FBI, INS, Customs, State, FAA, NTSB, DOD, etc.).Yet anyone with the most basic understanding of how government functions (or does not function) realizes that the various bureaucracies of Washington -- particularly those of the national security "community" -- do not work well together. Even covering up advance knowledge would require an extensive plot. If there truly had been intelligence reports predicting the 9/11 attacks, these reports would have circulated through intelligence and policymaking circles before the folks at the top decided to smother them for geopolitical gain. That would make for a unwieldy conspiracy of silence. And in either scenario -- planning the attacks or permitting them to occur -- everyone who participated in the conspiracy would have to be freakin' sure that all the other plotters would stay quiet.Not evil enough. This is as foul as it gets -- to kill thousands of Americans, including Pentagon employees, to help out oil companies. (The sacrificial lambs could have included White House staff or members of Congress, had the fourth plane not crashed in Pennsylvania.) This is a Hollywood-level of dastardliness, James Bond (or Dr. Evil) material.Are there enough people of such a bent in all those agencies? That's doubtful. CIA officers and American officials have been evildoers. They have supported death squads and made use of drug dealers overseas. They have assisted torturers, disseminated assassination manuals, sold weapons to terrorist-friendly governments, undermined democratically-elected governments, and aided dictators who murder and maim. They have covered up reports of massacres and human rights abuses. They have plotted to kill foreign leaders.These were horrendous activities, but, in most instances, the perps justified these deeds with Cold War imperatives (perverted as they were). And to make the justification easier, the victims were people overseas. Justifying the murder of thousands of Americans to help ExxonMobil would require U.S. officials to engage in a different kind of detachment and an even more profound break with decency and moral norms.I recall interviewing one former CIA official who helped manage a division that ran the sort of actions listed above, and I asked him whether the CIA had considered "permanently neutralizing" a former CIA man who had revealed operations and the identities of CIA officers. Kill an American citizen? he replied, as if I were crazy to ask. No, no, he added, we could never do that. Yes, in the spy-world some things were beyond the pale. And, he explained, it would be far too perilous, for getting caught in that type of nasty business could threaten your career. Which brings us to....Not gutsy enough. Think of the danger -- the potential danger to the plotters. What if their plan were uncovered before or, worse, after the fact? Who's going to risk being associated with the most infamous crime in U.S. history? At the start of such a conspiracy, no one could be certain it would work and remain a secret. CIA people -- and those in other government agencies -- do care about their careers.Would George W. Bush take the chance of being branded the most evil president of all time by countenancing such wrongdoing? Oil may be in his blood, but would he place the oil industry's interests ahead of his own? (He sure said sayonara to Kenneth Lay and Enron pretty darn fast.) And Bush and everyone else in government know that plans leak. Disinformation specialists at the Pentagon could not keep their office off the front page of The New York Times. In the aftermath of September 11, there has been much handwringing over the supposed fact that U.S. intelligence has been too risk-averse. But, thankfully, some inhibitions -- P.R. concerns, career concerns -- do provide brakes on the spy-crowd.By now, you're probably wondering why I have bothered to go through this exercise. Aren't these conspiracy theories too silly to address? That should be the case. But, sadly, they do attract people.A fellow named Michael Ruppert, who compiled that timeline mentioned above, has drawn large crowds to his lectures. He has offered $1000 to anyone who can "disprove the authenticity of any of his source material." Well, his timeline includes that Canadian prisoner's claim and cites the Toronto Star as the source. But Ruppert fails to note that the Star did not confirm the man's account, that the paper reported some observers "wonder if it isn't just the ravings of a lunatic," and that the Star subsequently reported the judge said the tale had "no air of reality." Does that disprove anything? Not 100 percent. There's still a chance that man is telling the truth, right? So I'm not expecting a check.Conspiracy theories may seem more nuisance than problem. But they do compete with reality for attention. There is plenty to be outraged over without becoming obsessed with X Files-like nonsense. Examples? There's the intelligence services's failure to protect Americans and the lack of criticism of the CIA from elected officials. Or, General Tommy Franks, the commander of military operations in Afghanistan, declaring the commando mis-assault at Hazar Qadam, which resulted in the deaths of fifteen to twenty local Afghans loyal to the pro-U.S. government, was not an intelligence failure. (How can U.S. Special Forces fire at targets they wrongly believe to be Taliban or al Qaeda fighters, end up killing people they did not intend to kill, and the operation not be considered an intelligence failure?) More outrage material? A few months ago, forensic researchers found the remains of people tortured and killed at a base the CIA had established in the 1980s as a training center for the contras. The U.S. ambassador to Honduras at the time is now the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, John Negroponte.There are always national security misdeeds to be mad about. They may not be as cinematic in nature as a plot in which shady, unidentified U.S. officials scheme to blow up the World Trade Towers to gain control of an oil pipeline in Central Asia. But dozens of dead Hondurans or twenty or so Afghans wrongly killed ought to provoke anger and protest. In fact, out-there conspiracy theorizing serves the interests of the powers-that-be by making their real transgressions seem tame in comparison. (What's a few dead in Central America, compared to thousands in New York City? Why worry about Negroponte, when unidentified U.S. officials are slaughtering American civilians to trigger war?)Perhaps there's a Pentagon or CIA office that churns out this material. Its mission: distract people from the real wrongdoing. Now there's a conspiracy theory worth exploring. Doesn't it make sense? Doesn't it all fit together? I challenge anyone to disprove it.David Corn is the Washington editor of The Nation</div>
 
The thing about the terrorists being aided by the US, while highly unlikely, it isn't impossible. As much as humans think we know everything through the media, through basic morals, through others, there is probably tons of stuff going about that we don't know about. As Kay said in Men in Black when telling Kay about what people know about Aliens,"Men knew the world was flat. Men knew there was no America. Up until now, you knew there were no aliens out there" (Yes the quote was modified cause I have a bad memory
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)We don't know everything, and there is a chance that someone staged it from the US, weather it be the government, an underground organization, or somethinga long those lines, it is possible. Do I believe the government aided in it in any way? Not at all, but it is possible, however unlikely
 
I really want to make a post on grammar to educate you guys, but I'd just get flamed and then I'd flame in retaliation and it would start more <Censored>, so I won't.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JustBlaze @ Mar 26 2006, 10:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I really want to make a post on grammar to educate you guys, but I'd just get flamed and then I'd flame in retaliation and it would start more <Censored>, so I won't.</div>Honestly why do you care? If you can understand wat the dude is trying to say why even bother?
 
because sometimes it bugs me when people sound like idiots. it bugs me.but anyway i read some of this stuff and it's crazy. and i might believe it too. the facts are there. read them.it has so many convincing facts. it's just hard not to think about it..but why? why would they do this? i guess this is the final question. if this is true, then why? it kind of blossomed out of nowhere. a terrorist attack.maybe this is why george w. bush got his reason to invade iraq. maybe bush pinned his attack on them to give him a reason to do it. for oil for money for what? what are his motives?i don't know what to believe now. i'm just a little boy.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (regularguy @ Mar 27 2006, 01:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>because sometimes it bugs me when people sound like idiots. it bugs me.</div>Touche!That would be his motive, to invade Iraq and get their oil, as well as give out lucrative contracts for reconstruction of the infastructure to Cheney and others. It seems pretty ridiculous, especially considering that Iraq and the 9/11 attacks weren't related, so I'm leaning towards not believing it at this point.
 
Iraq allowed the Bush administration to more easily sell the war.
 
The conspiracy theories are obviously false and are just trying to create a finger pointing situation. One thing I wanted to ask about the 9/11 conspiracy theories is this: If the government really did fly missiles or jets into those buildings, what happened to all the loved ones who were on it? The ones that called in saying that arab men took over the plane?Most of the conspiracy theories I have seen and read aren't even accurate. The "facts" that they have, mostly for the Pentagon, aren't correct (like the angle of the plane) and they try to trick you into thinking it is.
 
They do have some valid points, but much of it isn't true. Obviously there were no missiles involved, I don't think anyone believes that there were.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JustBlaze @ Mar 29 2006, 11:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>They do have some valid points, but much of it isn't true. Obviously there were no missiles involved, I don't think anyone believes that there were.</div>You'd be surprised. :HAHAHA:
 
Too bad nobody here believes in this stuff...I wanted some debate.
 
It wouldn't be much of a debate, it's pointless arguing with people who are obviously wrong but think they're right.
 
Sorry to bring up a old topic but my teacher showed me this video, and I thought it is really wierd:Pentagon
 
Ok, the buildings collapsed because of all the heat and presuure. Then there were fires popping out from windows below because the oil leaked when it was buring and fell all the way down to the lobby, someone actually caught on fire down there. The conspiracys started from some guy from France who is convinced the US lies to us, which yeah maybe they do sometimes, but they wouldn't kill thousands of it's own to send a message, this isn't Iraq.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jkidd51524 @ Feb 3 2007, 02:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Sorry to bring up a old topic but my teacher showed me this video, and I thought it is really wierd:Pentagon</div> Your teacher shouldn't be showing you that crap. It'sthat kind of propaganda garbage thats confused 25% of our population to believe 9/11 was a government plot. US Today is right near the Pentagon, hundreds of their employee's watched a US passenger jet hit the Pentagon, unless you think dozens of writers and journalists are lying...then...whatever. I love that stupid video, 'Right after the attack there's a hole in the pentagon and no airplane!' Well no sh*t, look at the WTC, when a planes flying hundreds of miles and hour it gets sucked right in, when the WTC was attacked there were no f*cking airplane chunks that fell into the streets, the whole plane went into the building...obviously your not going to see an airplane in a building thats just exploded with jet fuel...whatever was left of the plane in the Pentagon was charcoil black and heavily destroyed by the intense fires. Dee Dee Dee!
 
Is there anyone on BBW that thinks 9/11 was a conspiracy? (Besides the usual idiots I prove wrong?)
 
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