A civil discourse on the 2nd amendment

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There is no magic eraser to erase the words "shall not be infringed."

Actually, there is. It's called a constitutional amendment, and at some point if 'certain people' are too rigid about common sense, minor infringements, then we'll be amending the amendment. It's a ways off yet, but I predict I'll live to see it.

barfo
 
Actually, there is. It's called a constitutional amendment, and at some point if 'certain people' are too rigid about common sense, minor infringements, then we'll be amending the amendment. It's a ways off yet, but I predict I'll live to see it.

barfo

Amend away. That's the legit way to do it, if it is going to be done.

Lotsa luck with that, though.
 
Actually, there is. It's called a constitutional amendment, and at some point if 'certain people' are too rigid about common sense, minor infringements, then we'll be amending the amendment. It's a ways off yet, but I predict I'll live to see it.

barfo

Which is what should have been done with the ACA.
 
Which is what should have been done with the ACA.

Spot on again sir. Ha! can you see that getting super majority of States to sign on?
Heck it can't even get a simple majority to participate if you give them the money.
 
Actually, there is. It's called a constitutional amendment, and at some point if 'certain people' are too rigid about common sense, minor infringements, then we'll be amending the amendment. It's a ways off yet, but I predict I'll live to see it.

barfo

Finally a take the guns man that at least knows the way that would be acceptable even though still resented. Of course it does defy logic that there are enough who would give away their
right to defend themselves and their family, that is a God given right you know.

This statement is as valid today as it was 237 years ago.

"that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,
that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men,"

The first 10 amendment pretty much reflect the government envisioned as stated. I don't see those changing much in your life time or as long as this nation exists. Trying to change this fact may well hasten that end though.
Perhaps even shorten some lfe times.
 
You would be required to report the theft. Also that's one time, but if it kept happening the pice could runs sting on you. The restrictions I suggested would not immediately curb gun sales to felons, but over time it would stem the flow. Yes, a criminal could go steal a gun, but all felons aren't good at theft and many wouldn't want to get guns that way knowing that by definition the gun owners you plan to rob have guns. Over time, we could make sure guns stay in the right hands

If the felons aren't good at theft, why wouldn't they just buy guns from felons that are good at theft? Here's a quiz. Do you think it would more likely that a felon would buy a registered gun, at a markup from the brand new price you just paid, or that they would pay some tweeker $100 for a stolen gun?

Go Blazers
 
If they don't want to take away peoples' guns, why do they ban guns in cities like D.C. and Chicago?

That's not an odd freak here/there wanting to ban guns.

So when the Supreme Court rightly ruled those bans unconstitutional, the people behind the bans just give up?

I. don't. think. so.

Here's another quiz for those who support more gun control.

Why did the last two mass shootings happen in cities with some of the most strict gun control laws in the nation?

Bonus question....why do you think registration will be more effective than the bans in those cities?

Go Blazers
 
Here's another quiz for those who support more gun control.

Why did the last two mass shootings happen in cities with some of the most strict gun control laws in the nation?

Bonus question....why do you think registration will be more effective than the bans in those cities?

Go Blazers

To be fair, if I lived in DC and really wanted a gun, I'd drive 20 minutes to VA or MD and buy one. The strict gun laws in DC can't be blamed or really considered.

To be fair.
 
To be fair, if I lived in DC and really wanted a gun, I'd drive 20 minutes to VA or MD and buy one. The strict gun laws in DC can't be blamed or really considered.

To be fair.

Which goes to the point that the gun regulations in DC don't work. Why shouldn't that be considered?

Go Blazers
 
Which goes to the point that the gun regulations in DC don't work. Why shouldn't that be considered?

Go Blazers

The idea would be to have those regulations everywhere, so there'd be no getting around them.

Otherwise, the regulations are absurd, but that's why congress has such low approval ratings (pass absurd things barfo likes). More like you go for the mile and take an inch if you can get it. Over a few decades, the inches add up to the mile.

Like the war on poverty, how it's grown over the years, and how no fewer people are poor now as then.
 
Gottcha. I'm pretty sure, though, that if the posters here were proposing a nationwide ban, the discourse would be somewhat less civil. (And, I believe that there are LOTS of politicians that support take a total ban, if they could get it.)

Go Blazers
 
...
As someone else mentioned, you registrar your car, is the govt coming to take that? With 300,000,000 guns in the US, the government is just not going to come take guns from law abiding citizens. Americans would never stand for it, the police would never comply. It just isn't happening.

But we might be able to figure out how to make sure you, a legal owner, have all the guns you want, and the criminals have fewer.

This is the heart of the issue. There are plenty of examples in recent history of governments registering guns, or using registration lists, to confiscate the guns. And there are lots of politicians in this country that want to ban guns. I can't fathom why you think it is impossible for that to happen here.

I found the thread where I listed a bunch of politicians that wanted to take my guns. Yeah, some are from a while ago. But, a lot of those same people are still on office, and I doubt they've changed their minds. Also, since making these kind of statements can lose votes, I'm betting there are a lot more that feel like this, then and today, that just keep quite about their feelings/desire/agenda.

This is the post from the Defending the Second Amendment thread, edited to reflect the new title requesting civil discourse:

PLEASE STOP TELLING GUN OWNERS THAT NOBODY WANTS TO TAKE THEIR GUNS.

The problem is that, because you are willing to give up your rights, it makes me give up my rights. Please tell me why I should believe you instead of what our leaders have been saying for decades:

"We can't be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans to legitimately own handguns and rifles"
Bill Clinton, March 1, 1993

"If the personal freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution inhibit the government's ability to govern the people, we should look to limit those guarantees."
President Bill Clinton, August 12, 1993

"I feel very strongly about it [the Brady Bill]. I think — I also associate myself with the other remarks of the Attorney General. I think it's the beginning. It's not the end of the process by any means."
President Bill Clinton, on the Brady Bill, August 11, 1993

"We're here to tell the NRA their nightmare is true! We're going to hammer guns on the anvil of relentless legislative strategy. We're going to beat guns into submission!"
New York, Rep Charles Schumer.

"We must be able to arrest people before they commit crimes. By registering guns and knowing who has them we can do that... If they have guns they are pretty likely to commit a crime."
Vermont State Senator Mary Ann Carlson

“The most effective means of fighting crime in the United States is to outlaw the possession of any type of firearm by the civilian populace.”
Janet Reno, 1991

"Waiting periods are only a step. Registration is only a step. The prohibition of private firearms is the goal."
U.S. Attorney General Janet Reno, December 1993

"What good does it do to ban some guns? All guns should be banned."
U.S. Senator Howard Metzanbaum, Democrat from Ohio

"Until we can ban all of them [firearms], then we might as well ban none."
U.S. Senator Howard Metzenbaum, Senate Hearings 1993

"No, we're not looking at how to control criminals ... we're talking about banning the AK-47 and semi-automatic guns."
U.S. Senator Howard Metzenbaum, 1993

"I don't care about crime, I just want to get the guns."
U.S. Senator. Howard Metzenbaum, 1994

"Mr. Speaker, I still believe that the best way to control handguns is to ban them outright."
U.S. Representitive Cardiss Collins, Democrat from Illinois

"You know I don't believe in people owning guns, only the police and military. And I'm going to do everything I can to disarm this state."
Michael Dukakis, June 16, 1986 (and 1988 Democratic nominee for President)

"Banning guns addresses a fundamental right of Americans to feel safe."
U.S. Senator Dianne Feinstein, quoted by the Associated Press, November 18, 1993

"In fact, only police, soldiers — and, maybe, licensed target ranges — should have handguns. No one else needs one."
Michael Gartner, president of NBC News, in The Wall Street Journal, January 10, 1991

"My bill ... establishes a 6-month grace period for the turning in of all handguns."
U.S. Representative Major Owens, Congressional Record, 11/10/93

"These automatic, semiautomatic handguns and assault weapons, they really have no place in our society."
Al Gore, Larry King Live, September 17, 1999

So, help me understand why I shouldn't worry about the government wanting to ban my guns.

Go Blazers
 
This is the heart of the issue. There are plenty of examples in recent history of governments registering guns, or using registration lists, to confiscate the guns. And there are lots of politicians in this country that want to ban guns. I can't fathom why you think it is impossible for that to happen here.

I found the thread where I listed a bunch of politicians that wanted to take my guns. Yeah, some are from a while ago. But, a lot of those same people are still on office, and I doubt they've changed their minds. Also, since making these kind of statements can lose votes, I'm betting there are a lot more that feel like this, then and today, that just keep quite about their feelings/desire/agenda.

This is the post from the Defending the Second Amendment thread, edited to reflect the new title requesting civil discourse:

You are worrying about the wrong group of people. Politicians aren't going to take your guns unless a large fraction of your fellow citizens want them to. They are, after all, politicians.

barfo
 
You are worrying about the wrong group of people. Politicians aren't going to take your guns unless a large fraction of your fellow citizens want them to. They are, after all, politicians.

barfo

Why do you think that politicians give a rip about what the people want? You don't have to look farther than the ACA to see the writing on the wall. The law only applies to the representees. It's waived for the representors. Do you believe our politicians were representing the people's interests when they decided they should be exempt?

As you point out, they are politicians. They are all about staying in office. Staying in office is easier if you don't have an armed populace.

So, if the government requires registering all the weapons, I don't think it matters whether the majority of the people want to keep their guns for not. If the politicians decide they want the guns, they will be able to take them.

I'm not saying the government WILL come take my guns. I don't really think it is likely. I'm asking why I should assist the government in doing that, IF they decide they want to? If they do decide to take the guns, it will be too late to do anything about it once they are registered.

Once registration happens, there is no turning back. Are you that confident that the government won't ever decide to take the guns? This is a decision that could take the militia option off the table for all future generations if the government ever decides to.

Further restricting gun rights will not help solve the problems that people get worked up about.

No guns allowed at the shipyard. Very restrictive gun laws in DC.

No guns allowed at Sandy Hook Elementary. High security school.

Extremely restrictive guns laws in Chicago.

I don't know, are guns allowed at Clackamas Mall?

What Difference Does It Make?

The overwhelming majority of gun owners are just everyday people who obey all the laws related to those guns. The tiny minority of gun owners that are criminals don't. A miniscule number of violent people are going to go out and kill a bunch of people once in a while. And you can't keep that from happening.

Bad people and crazy people are going to do bad things. They don't plan to live through the event, so why would they care what laws they break?

All that most of the Joe Plumber's out there want is to have people leave alone the laws pertaining to their only viable means of self defense.

Go Blazers
 
Why do you think that politicians give a rip about what the people want?

Because they want to get reelected.

You don't have to look farther than the ACA to see the writing on the wall.

I know the sky isn't this color in your world, but a lot of us think the ACA was a small step forward, and we vote accordingly.

The law only applies to the representees. It's waived for the representors. Do you believe our politicians were representing the people's interests when they decided they should be exempt?

yes, there is certainly corruption in politics and politicians can be counted upon to feed at the trough. Maybe they will allow themselves to have guns when they take yours, I don't know. Doesn't seem very important though, since there aren't very many of them.

As you point out, they are politicians. They are all about staying in office. Staying in office is easier if you don't have an armed populace.

Yes, because we shoot politicians all the time to get them out of office. That's just the way our system works.

So, if the government requires registering all the weapons, I don't think it matters whether the majority of the people want to keep their guns for not. If the politicians decide they want the guns, they will be able to take them.

Sure. Also, the flying saucers are going to beam you up and probe you.

I'm not saying the government WILL come take my guns. I don't really think it is likely. I'm asking why I should assist the government in doing that, IF they decide they want to? If they do decide to take the guns, it will be too late to do anything about it once they are registered.

Why pay taxes or get a drivers license or go to school or get a bank account then? All those things just assist the government in tracking you down when they get a hankering to.

Once registration happens, there is no turning back. Are you that confident that the government won't ever decide to take the guns? This is a decision that could take the militia option off the table for all future generations if the government ever decides to.

Militias died about 200 years ago. If I thought having a gun was *the* most important thing in life, I guess I might get all exercised about the small possibility that someday our government might be much more authoritarian than it is now and might attempt to collect the firearms against the will of the citizens.

Further restricting gun rights will not help solve the problems that people get worked up about.

Seems like people get worked up about restricting gun rights, so I guess you are right.

No guns allowed at the shipyard. Very restrictive gun laws in DC.

No guns allowed at Sandy Hook Elementary. High security school.

Extremely restrictive guns laws in Chicago.

I don't know, are guns allowed at Clackamas Mall?

What Difference Does It Make?

If it doesn't make any difference, why are you so worried about it?

The overwhelming majority of gun owners are just everyday people who obey all the laws related to those guns. The tiny minority of gun owners that are criminals don't. A miniscule number of violent people are going to go out and kill a bunch of people once in a while. And you can't keep that from happening.

Sure you can. Just look at practically any other country. Are you saying Americans are inherently more violent/crazy than other people?

Bad people and crazy people are going to do bad things. They don't plan to live through the event, so why would they care what laws they break?

That sounds like a pretty good argument for reducing the number of guns lying around to me.

All that most of the Joe Plumber's out there want is to have people leave alone the laws pertaining to their only viable means of self defense.

Go Blazers

Why are guns the only viable means of self defense? Oh, right, because everyone has a gun...
So the obvious solution is not to disarm, it's to get more firepower.

barfo
 
I like to post pictures of liberals and practice shooting them in the face
 
I like to post pictures of liberals and practice shooting them in the face

OMG, that's what I like to do too! Do you also like Jesus, drugs, and aquaponics???

barfo
 
History is full of characters who started their careers as elected politicians and ended up forming totalitarian states or regimes.

Except in Woody Allen movies.
 
Because they want to get reelected.
Hard to imagine they are worried about that when they treat citizens like commoners, while they set themselves up as the aristocracy. Hence, the example of the ACA wavier for the aristocracy. Do you believe that they waived the law for themselves to win votes?

I know the sky isn't this color in your world, but a lot of us think the ACA was a small step forward, and we vote accordingly.
The sky color must be different in the politicians' world too, no? Do you think the aristocracy waived the ACA for themselves because they think the health care it provides is a step forward for them?

I'm not trying to argue over the ACA. I'm talking about the specific provisions that allow the aristocracy to force the commoners to buy something whether they want it or not, but the 'leaders' don't have to. That speaks to the politicians do not always do what the voters want, as you suggest.

Again, do you think they did that because they think it wins them votes? Does waiving the ACA for themselves represent what you think is just and right under your sky color?

yes, there is certainly corruption in politics and politicians can be counted upon to feed at the trough. Maybe they will allow themselves to have guns when they take yours, I don't know. Doesn't seem very important though, since there aren't very many of them.
Yes, the politicians were representing the peoples' interest, or yes politicians are corrupt? If politicians are corrupt, why do you think they wouldn't try to take away our constitutional rights?

Yes, because we shoot politicians all the time to get them out of office. That's just the way our system works.
Or, it's easier, with the people disarmed to tell them that the government will do whatever they want to, and the people will have the rights they decide we deserve. Or course, the leaders will continue to have their rights, plus the right to be corrupt.

Sure. Also, the flying saucers are going to beam you up and probe you.
Cool beans. Look right past the evidence, and with no counterpoint to make, ridicule whatever you don't agree with.

Do you really find it laughable that the government wants to take the guns, given attempt make with HB3200 in Oregon THIS YEAR, Governor Brown vetoing radical gun legislation that banned semi-auto guns (which was passed by the Cali legislature) and the list of prominent politicians that make no bones about the fact they want to take the guns that I provided above?

That seems like the very definition of having your head in the sand.

Why pay taxes or get a drivers license or go to school or get a bank account then? All those things just assist the government in tracking you down when they get a hankering to.
I pay taxes because it's the law and to help support the administration and upkeep of a government that is supposed to protect my constitutional rights.
I get a driver's license because it's the law, and I need to drive to work so I can pay my taxes to a government that is supposed to protect my constitutional rights.

I went to school because it is the law, and so that I could learn stuff that would help me get a job, so I can pay taxes to a government that is supposed to protect my constitutional rights.

I'm having a hard time understanding how my bank account will help the government take my guns. As far as tracking me down, the president has already got that covered.

Given that he scans all of my e-mail, all of my texts and all of my phone conversations, then blatently lies about the protections in place to protect our privacy. I'm thinking my bank account number doesn't mean shit in the big picture of tracking me down.

Militias died about 200 years ago. If I thought having a gun was *the* most important thing in life, I guess I might get all exercised about the small possibility that someday our government might be much more authoritarian than it is now and might attempt to collect the firearms against the will of the citizens.
Really? The government MIGHT get more authoritarian? The government is scanning all e-mails, texts, phone conversations, and GPS tracking of cell phones. The government has put drones in our skies, light armored vehicles on our streets, and continue their never-ending attempts at further infringing on the second amendment every time there is a shooting that tugs on the heartstrings. Is that not "more authoritarian" enough to concern you right now? Head. In . Sand.

I'd say militias would form wherever governments get out of control.....if the militia can arm themselves. I think militias would form is our country was invaded. Without arms, though, you are right. THEN there are no militias.

Having a gun is not *the* most important thing in my life, but my constitutional rights are in the top three. It's a shame so many are willing to risk those rights since, once gone, you won't get them back.

At any rate, I'm sad to see that worrying about how the freedoms of future generations are affected is unimportant to you. I'm glad our forefathers didn't think that way, and found it important to give us certain inalienable rights.

Seems like people get worked up about restricting gun rights, so I guess you are right.
Seems like it's to be expected that people would get worked up when our constitutional rights are being infringed upon. Damned shame that more people don't stand up and be counted.

I guess if my sky color was the same as yours, everyone would just shut up and let the government do whatever is in it's corrupt interests.

Go Blazers
 
Hard to imagine they are worried about that when they treat citizens like commoners, while they set themselves up as the aristocracy. Hence, the example of the ACA wavier for the aristocracy. Do you believe that they waived the law for themselves to win votes?

First of all, they certainly are (mostly) worried about getting reelected. If they don't get reelected, they are no longer part of the 'aristocracy'.
Secondly, I'm not clear on this 'waiver' for themselves, probably because I haven't paid enough attention. What part of the law did they waive for themselves? Obviously they already have healthcare, so they wouldn't be subject to the mandate.


The sky color must be different in the politicians' world too, no? Do you think the aristocracy waived the ACA for themselves because they think the health care it provides is a step forward for them?

Again, I don't know what the issue is here. They already have health insurance.

I'm not trying to argue over the ACA. I'm talking about the specific provisions that allow the aristocracy to force the commoners to buy something whether they want it or not, but the 'leaders' don't have to. That speaks to the politicians do not always do what the voters want, as you suggest.

Again, they already have health insurance. Waiving or not waiving the rule to buy it has no effect on them.
Politicians do what the voters want in very broad strokes, not in specific details. Fact is most voters don't give a damn whether congresspeople do or don't have health care, so what they do about their own health care makes little difference to most people (except when someone is trying to make political points from it).

Again, do you think they did that because they think it wins them votes? Does waiving the ACA for themselves represent what you think is just and right under your sky color?

Again, how does this actually matter?
Do I support special perks for congresspeople? Well, if they deserve them, which the current congress definitely does not. It is an important position though and I am in favor of compensating them accordingly.


Yes, the politicians were representing the peoples' interest, or yes politicians are corrupt? If politicians are corrupt, why do you think they wouldn't try to take away our constitutional rights?

Because taking away your constitutional rights doesn't enrich your congressperson.


Or, it's easier, with the people disarmed to tell them that the government will do whatever they want to, and the people will have the rights they decide we deserve. Or course, the leaders will continue to have their rights, plus the right to be corrupt.

That just strikes me as paranoia, but I guess I'm not going to convince you that you are paranoid. Maybe they really are out to get you, but I don't see ANY evidence of that.


Cool beans. Look right past the evidence, and with no counterpoint to make, ridicule whatever you don't agree with.

Yeah, I suppose I am guilty of that. But on the other hand you didn't really provide evidence in the quoted paragraph. Saying 'if the politicians want the guns, they will take them' is not evidence.

Do you really find it laughable that the government wants to take the guns, given attempt make with HB3200 in Oregon THIS YEAR, Governor Brown vetoing radical gun legislation that banned semi-auto guns (which was passed by the Cali legislature) and the list of prominent politicians that make no bones about the fact they want to take the guns that I provided above?

Laughable, no. But it's a bit like seeing someone get a ticket for driving 150 mph and saying the cops are trying to take our cars away. I guess you think it's a slippery slope, but I think there can be a middle ground where some people are allowed to drive but people aren't allowed to drive 150 mph though downtown at lunch hour.

I pay taxes because it's the law and to help support the administration and upkeep of a government that is supposed to protect my constitutional rights.
I get a driver's license because it's the law, and I need to drive to work so I can pay my taxes to a government that is supposed to protect my constitutional rights.

I went to school because it is the law, and so that I could learn stuff that would help me get a job, so I can pay taxes to a government that is supposed to protect my constitutional rights.

I'm having a hard time understanding how my bank account will help the government take my guns. As far as tracking me down, the president has already got that covered.

Given that he scans all of my e-mail, all of my texts and all of my phone conversations, then blatently lies about the protections in place to protect our privacy. I'm thinking my bank account number doesn't mean shit in the big picture of tracking me down.

Well, I'd think you'd be just as worried about them taking your money as taking your guns, but maybe I'm wrong about that.


Really? The government MIGHT get more authoritarian? The government is scanning all e-mails, texts, phone conversations, and GPS tracking of cell phones. The government has put drones in our skies, light armored vehicles on our streets, and continue their never-ending attempts at further infringing on the second amendment every time there is a shooting that tugs on the heartstrings. Is that not "more authoritarian" enough to concern you right now? Head. In . Sand.

No. That. Does. Not. Concern. Me. Much.

I'd say militias would form wherever governments get out of control.....if the militia can arm themselves. I think militias would form is our country was invaded. Without arms, though, you are right. THEN there are no militias.

what if the enemy has not guns but nukes? or chemical weapons? then what? After all the federal government, which seems to be the bogeyman you are most afraid of, definitely does have those things. Do we need a right to bear chemical weapons, so that our militia can be prepared? Are you maybe preparing to fight not just the last war, but instead a war from 200 years ago?

barfo
 
Has anyone ever heard of Australia's relatively recent ban on many guns after a mass shooting? It's an amazing story, and proof that having 300 million guns out there can still be handled with the right regulation and laws.

This is from CNN.com:

"In a popular tourist spot at Port Arthur, Tasmania, in April 1996, a lone gunman killed 20 innocents with his first 29 bullets, all in the space of 90 seconds.

"New legislation agreed to by all states and territories specifically addressed mass shootings: Rapid-fire rifles and shotguns were banned, gun owner licensing was tightened and remaining firearms were registered to uniform national standards. In two nationwide, federally funded gun buybacks, plus large-scale voluntary surrenders and state gun amnesties both before and after Port Arthur, Australia collected and destroyed more than a million firearms, perhaps one-third of the national stock.

"No other nation had attempted anything on this scale.

"In the years after the Port Arthur massacre, the risk of dying by gunshot in Australia fell by more than 50% -- and stayed there. In the 16 years since the announcement of legislation specifically designed to reduce gun massacres, Australia has seen no mass shootings. Gun deaths which attract smaller headlines are 80 times more common, yet the national rate of gun homicide remains 30 times lower than that of the United States."

LINK.
 
What do you know? Risk of dying by gunshot in the USA down 50%, too. Without banning guns.

http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2013/05/07/gun-homicide-rate-down-49-since-1993-peak-public-unaware/

SDT-2013-05-gun-crime-1-2.png
 
barfo

http://www.opensecrets.org/bigpicture/reelect.php

When each congress person has an 80% chance of being reelected, they don't have to do much of what the people want them to. In fact, I wonder how much you know about what your own congressman or congresswoman or senator has actually done in the past year. Maybe you know about 1 or 2 votes is my guess.

Thing is, in many places, the chances are much higher than 80%. There are people elected to 20+ terms in the House, for example.
 
Anyone thinking that banning guns will lower crime is seriously using tunnel vision. Criminals are still criminals and will get guns regardless. A crazy is still crazy and will use other methods to cause harm.

What we really should go after is the war on drugs. And when I mean drugs, I'm talking heroin, Cocaine and speed. We should legalize weed; and use the tax earned to fight the other drugs.

Take away the main revenue stream for criminals, they won't be soooo adapt to do crime.
 
barfo

http://www.opensecrets.org/bigpicture/reelect.php

When each congress person has an 80% chance of being reelected, they don't have to do much of what the people want them to.

You act like it is some sort of law of physics that the reelection rate is 80%.
Don't you think it might be that most congresspeople don't piss off their constituents enough to get voted out?

In fact, I wonder how much you know about what your own congressman or congresswoman or senator has actually done in the past year. Maybe you know about 1 or 2 votes is my guess.

My congresswoman is a freshman in the minority. I think it's safe to say she hasn't done much.

Thing is, in many places, the chances are much higher than 80%. There are people elected to 20+ terms in the House, for example.

Suppose a congressperson proposes and succeeds in locating a new nuclear waste dump in the largest city in his/her district. What do you think the likelihood of being reelected is? 80%?

barfo
 

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