A compromise

[Rastapopoulos]

I'd be content with us signing one of the old FA PGs (Kidd, Miller, Bibby) IF we could also draft the PG of the future to come up and replace the geezer some time in the next three years or so.

And the PG of the future is NOT Bayless. And I guess Sergio has to be some other team's PG of the future.

So, in other words, replace Blake, Sergio AND Bayless with Miller and Brandon Jennings/Ty Lawson/Eric Maynor (assuming Rubio is unattainable).

Fair?

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

So you're saying we ditch Sergio, Bayless & Blake, sign a pricey free agent PG and try and move up in the draft far enough to obtain one of the better college PG's.

To a certain degree it makes sense but I think the chances of KP doing this is nil.

 

[MAS RipCity]

Man, it's going to be so nice to see Bayless quiet all them non-believers.

 

[Tortimer]

Bayless IMO is going to be a better PG to play along side Roy then anyone in this years draft even including Rubio. I wouldn't mind signing a vet PG this summer and let Bayless learn from him in the next couple years. I think to go out and draft another PG which IMO isn't going to be as good as Bayless just makes no sense.

 

[BlazersBlood]

Well to get one of the better PGs, we're gonna have to move up into the lottery. I don't see how we could do this at this point unless a team is in total salary dump and we take on a really crappy contract.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Man, it's going to be so nice to see Bayless quiet all them non-believers.

Even I would be very happy to see this. Amazed, but happy. I actually like the kid, and he's great fun to watch. If we didn't already have two very good SGs I wouldn't see him as a piece to be moved but as a great Eddie House/Louis Williams spark off the bench.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Well to get one of the better PGs, we're gonna have to move up into the lottery. I don't see how we could do this at this point unless a team is in total salary dump and we take on a really crappy contract.

...which would preclude signing a free agent, true.

Of course, if the salary dump is Baron Davis, then we get the veteran PG without having to sign him!

 

[Nikolokolus]

...which would preclude signing a free agent, true.

Of course, if the salary dump is Baron Davis, then we get the veteran PG without having to sign him!

What's the fascination with Baron Davis?

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Man, it's going to be so nice to see Bayless quiet all them non-believers.

You may very well be right.

 

[hasoos]

I'd be content with us signing one of the old FA PGs (Kidd, Miller, Bibby) IF we could also draft the PG of the future to come up and replace the geezer some time in the next three years or so.

And the PG of the future is NOT Bayless. And I guess Sergio has to be some other team's PG of the future.

So, in other words, replace Blake, Sergio AND Bayless with Miller and Brandon Jennings/Ty Lawson/Eric Maynor (assuming Rubio is unattainable).

Fair?

Nope not fair. Out of the 3 PG you mentioned above, only one is still capable of defending at his position. One (Bibby) has never been capable of defending at the PG position. In fact, through 3 quarters of the Atlanta/Cleveland game yesterday, Bibby had 0 points and 0 assists. Jason Kidd was getting burned so often at PG that they had to bring in JJ Barea and move Kidd to shooting guard.

Secondly, you have no idea if Bayless is the PG of the future. Your just spouting your opinion. I believe your opinion is vastly wrong. Because we have Brandon Roy, we need more of a "Byron Scott" at PG. That means we need a guy to take the pressure off of Roy, generate his own offense, and play tough D. Bayless can fill that role. If anything the playoffs should have taught you is that a guy who can generate offense on his own and fill up the hoop has true value when it is playoff time. Portland's lack of guys who can generate their own shots was evident. Bayless is a guy who can do that. He has always had a knack for filling up the hoop.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Nope not fair. Out of the 3 PG you mentioned above, only one is still capable of defending at his position. One (Bibby) has never been capable of defending at the PG position. In fact, through 3 quarters of the Atlanta/Cleveland game yesterday, Bibby had 0 points and 0 assists. Jason Kidd was getting burned so often at PG that they had to bring in JJ Barea and move Kidd to shooting guard.

Secondly, you have no idea if Bayless is the PG of the future. Your just spouting your opinion. I believe your opinion is vastly wrong. Because we have Brandon Roy, we need more of a "Byron Scott" at PG. That means we need a guy to take the pressure off of Roy, generate his own offense, and play tough D. Bayless can fill that role. If anything the playoffs should have taught you is that a guy who can generate offense on his own and fill up the hoop has true value when it is playoff time. Portland's lack of guys who can generate their own shots was evident. Bayless is a guy who can do that. He has always had a knack for filling up the hoop.

Byron Scott is an interesting and perhaps apt comparison ... unfortunately as good as Brandon Roy is at facilitating the offense he's no Magic Johnson.

My opinion is that Jerryd will have to at least become somewhat proficient at running the offense and getting teammates more involed than Scott and his 3 APG career average.

 

[hasoos]

Byron Scott is an interesting and perhaps apt comparison ... unfortunately as good as Brandon Roy is at facilitating the offense he's no Magic Johnson.

My opinion is that Jerryd will have to at least become somewhat proficient at running the offense and getting teammates more involed than Scott and his 3 APG career average.

Maybe. But maybe just having a PG who actually attacks the rim, sucks in the defense, and puts pressure on the D to react would be nice for a change. Have you actually ever gone out and checked out how many free throws that Blake and Sergio shot throughout the year? Free throws are a very good indicator for determining how much your PG is attacking the paint.

Steve Blake 75 free throw attempts in 2,188 minutes.
Sergio 77 free throw attempts in 1,255 minutes.
Bayless 103 free throws attempts in 655 minutes.

Therole of the PG besides being a distributor is to put pressure on the defense by attacking the paint. The facts are, that Steve Blake and Sergio are incapable of doing so. So for me, it's pretty much hope that Bayless turns out good, or pray to the dark ones that KP deals for talent.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

The role of the PG besides being a distributor

Exactly. Get back to me when Bayless shows the least ability as a distributor.

I'm with you on the penetration stuff: the reason I want Blake gone is because he can't penetrate at all. But is it too much to ask for a PG who can actually do both? I dare to dream.

 

[MAS RipCity]

Bayless IMO is going to be a better PG to play along side Roy then anyone in this years draft even including Rubio. I wouldn't mind signing a vet PG this summer and let Bayless learn from him in the next couple years. I think to go out and draft another PG which IMO isn't going to be as good as Bayless just makes no sense.

Perfect. Sign a guy like Miller and let Bayless learn the ropes from him for 2 years while playing 12-15 minutes a night.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

What's the fascination with Baron Davis?

You ask, I answer:
1. He's a superstar-level PG who is still young.
2. He can penetrate AND distribute. AND score.
3. He signed to a big contract and then had an off year (exactly like... Chauncey Billups!)
4. He's a damn smart guy and I think he's very similar to Oden, only extroverted, and might connect with him.
5. He's with the Clippers. Who will have a high pick. And have a cheap owner, who might want to shave some salary. So he's probably gettable and might bring a pick with him.
6. First round of the 2007 playoffs: Baron = best player in the league.
7. I want to see him and Oden in a beard-growing contest.
8. I think, like Paul Pierce, he's tired of being a good player on crappy teams. He's ready to knuckle down and sacrifice for a title. Of course, there's a strong chance I could be disastrously wrong.

I would be fucking AMAZED if Pritchard acquired Davis, though. Perhaps even more amazed than if Bayless turned into a PG.

 

[adrenalize74]

I dont get why so many people completely discount the ability of Bayless to become a PG. He has always played like a SG because that has been the roll he was asked to play.

When he was drafted, there was an interviews from both KP and Bayless on this very topic and Bayless himself told the reporter that he has the ability to be a good passer, he played that way in High School, but in college he was needed to be a scorer first. KP regarded him very highly as a PG in the draft because he was (is) confident he can make the transistion to a PG and less a combo guard.

During the few minutes he saw during the reg season, he was either playing garbage minutes or he was playing at SG and was the only scoring threat on the floor.

In Summer League he was again asked to show his offense, not his distributing skills. I am REALLY hoping that this Summer and into training camp Nate and crew push him into a PG roll and we can finally see if he will be "The Man".

Just like Oden and Webster, this is a BIG off season for Bayless. Those 3 (with good off seasons, good improvements, breakouts, whatever) could very possible turn our little 54 win, 1st round loss team in to a 60 win Conf contender next year.

Like soo many things, time will tell.

 

[rocketeer]

And the PG of the future is NOT Bayless.

just because you keep repeating this doesn't make it true.

 

[Nikolokolus]

You ask, I answer:
1. He's a superstar-level PG who is still young.

I agree he's got a superstar level ego, but he's never been all that efficient. Secondly, 29 isn't all that 'young' when a guy has missed 20-30+ games in six of his ten seasons as a pro

2. He can penetrate AND distribute. AND score.

He's a career 40% shooter from the field and 32% from three, secondly 70% of his shots were jumpers last year and he had a paltry 7% draw foul rate last season .. but yes he can distribute the ball pretty well.

3. He signed to a big contract and then had an off year (exactly like... Chauncey Billups!)

When did Chauncey have an off-year after signing a new contract, and what does that have to do with Baron Davis?

4. He's a damn smart guy and I think he's very similar to Oden, only extroverted, and might connect with him.

That makes no sense.

5. He's with the Clippers. Who will have a high pick. And have a cheap owner, who might want to shave some salary. So he's probably gettable and might bring a pick with him.

I have almost no doubt the Clippers would be thrilled to rid themselves of Baron's overpaid butt ... that tells me everything I need to know about whether or not we'd want him.

6. First round of the 2007 playoffs: Baron = best player in the league.

Agreed. Baron was great in that series and he's always been a productive post-season performer, but on the wrong side of thirty next season and with his history of injuries I'm not real confident about him holding up.

7. I want to see him and Oden in a beard-growing contest.

They don't have to be teammates for this to happen.

8. I think, like Paul Pierce, he's tired of being a good player on crappy teams. He's ready to knuckle down and sacrifice for a title. Of course, there's a strong chance I could be disastrously wrong.

What makes you think he's ready to "knuckle down"? He's never shown a great ability to play with pain and has been incredibly injury prone throughout his career. You even admit there's a strong chance you could be disastrously wrong, that seems like an awful lot of risk for a guy who has never been all that durable.

I would be fucking AMAZED if Pritchard acquired Davis, though. Perhaps even more amazed than if Bayless turned into a PG.

Yeah I'd be amazed too, in a "what the fuck just happened" kind of way As for Bayless who knows.

 

[Ed O]

You ask, I answer:
1. He's a superstar-level PG who is still young.

...

I would be fucking AMAZED if Pritchard acquired Davis, though. Perhaps even more amazed than if Bayless turned into a PG.

Hmm

Davis is 30. That's not young. He also had a 14.8 PER this season, which is about average and nowhere near superstar level.

I was all in favor of acquiring Davis five years ago. Now? His contract is ridiculous and it's unclear whether he will bounce back.

I'd pass on Baron Davis and I am not sure that any PG we'll be able to acquire in this draft will be the same level of guard prospect that Bayless is.

In other words: I don't much care for your plan here, sir.

Ed O.

 

[LittleAlex]

Hmm

Davis is 30. That's not young. He also had a 14.8 PER this season, which is about average and nowhere near superstar level.

I was all in favor of acquiring Davis five years ago. Now? His contract is ridiculous and it's unclear whether he will bounce back.

I'd pass on Baron Davis and I am not sure that any PG we'll be able to acquire in this draft will be the same level of guard prospect that Bayless is.

In other words: I don't much care for your plan here, sir.

Ed O.

This, except I am very sure only one PG in the draft will be the same level of prospect as Bayless, Ty Lawson. All the rest are serious projects who are years away from making a real impact on a playoff caliber team.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Hmm

Davis is 30. That's not young.

Yes it fucking is!

FYI, Steve Blake is less than a year younger. Is he old?

He also had a 14.8 PER this season, which is about average and nowhere near superstar level.

That was a historically bad season for him. I'm sure he sees that as shameful. It's still probably better than Steve Blake's best.

I'd pass on Baron Davis and I am not sure that any PG we'll be able to acquire in this draft will be the same level of guard prospect that Bayless is.

Ooh, clever use of words (ex-lawyer). I notice you said guard prospect, not point guard prospect. I might even agree with your statement. But if you added "point" I certainly wouldn't.

In other words: I don't much care for your plan here, sir.

A pox on your house, sir!

 

[Rastapopoulos]

When did Chauncey have an off-year after signing a new contract, and what does that have to do with Baron Davis?

Last year Billups looked old and tired in the playoffs, after his big new contract. In fact, he was already seen as too old when Dumars gave him the contract, and there were grumblings that it was just his reward for past services and the Pistons should just have let him go in free agency.

That makes no sense.

Both are smart, articulate and have broad interests outside of basketball. Better now?

I have almost no doubt the Clippers would be thrilled to rid themselves of Baron's overpaid butt ... that tells me everything I need to know about whether or not we'd want him.

Andre Miller sucked as a Clipper and they offloaded him quickly. What a bum!
Being a Clipper sucks at your very soul. Your limbs become heavy and listless. All joy seeps out of your game. Free Baron!

Agreed. Baron was great in that series and he's always been a productive post-season performer, but on the wrong side of thirty next season

...but still younger than any of the 3 FA PGs (Kidd, Bibby, Miller) OR Billups, and only 10 months older than Steve Blake. And remember, the plan is to draft the PG of the future at the same time, so Baron wouldn't have to last forever.

and with his history of injuries I'm not real confident about him holding up.

That's a worry. But he's said he's committed to getting in good shape next year, and if he did, that would help a lot. Joel was injury-prone until he lost weight. Shaq was much better this year than last because of the weight he lost.

 

[Mediocre Man]

I'd pass on Baron Davis and I am not sure that any PG we'll be able to acquire in this draft will be the same level of guard prospect that Bayless is.

This is a great statement. My only difference here is that I think with Nate and his BS offensive system, andother player might be more effective here.

 

[Ed O]

Yes it fucking is!

FYI, Steve Blake is less than a year younger. Is he old?

He's certainly not young. I don't think a player goes from young to old without an in-between state.

That was a historically bad season for him. I'm sure he sees that as shameful. It's still probably better than Steve Blake's best.

Blake sucks.

If we could swap in Baron Davis for Steve Blake right now, on the same contract and without giving up value? Heck, yes. I'd take the chance.

But, alas, that would not be the deal. Even if the Clippers gave him away to us, he would be on the books for years at a very high salary. I'm not afraid of spending Paul Allen's money, but I think that the more extended contract length could cause the worst case from a year or two of explosive badness to years and years of franchise-poisoning badness.

Ooh, clever use of words (ex-lawyer). I notice you said guard prospect, not point guard prospect. I might even agree with your statement. But if you added "point" I certainly wouldn't.

Definitely, it's unclear whether Bayless will ever evolve into a quality point guard. I have little doubt, though, that he's going to be a very effective guard, and I think that as long as he can DEFEND point guards, he'll fit in just fine with the Blazers.

Ed O.

 

[Masbee]

Byron Scott is an interesting and perhaps apt comparison ... unfortunately as good as Brandon Roy is at facilitating the offense he's no Magic Johnson.

My opinion is that Jerryd will have to at least become somewhat proficient at running the offense and getting teammates more involed than Scott and his 3 APG career average.

I agree. To be the best version of the team we are, we should have a PG who can create, set-up and distribute so that LaMarcus and Greg are important parts of the offense too. We shouldn't think only of a good match with Roy when thinking of guards.

 

[Masbee]

Last year Billups looked old and tired in the playoffs, after his big new contract.

I don't agree at all. I don't know why you think this.

Billups had an awesome season 07-08 for the Pistons and the team won 59 games. He was their best player - BY FAR. In fact, he carried that team more than he ever had.

In the playoffs, where they advanced to the Eastern Conference Finals, losing the the eventual champs, the Boston Celtics (drats that sucky Billups for not crushing such a crap team), Billups wasn't up to his regular season standards. His PER was "only" 21 instead of the 23.6 for the regular season. And yet - even though he wasn't as good as during that regular season - he still was the best playoff performer for his team. Maybe it was Billup's teammates who were "old and tired".

In fact, he was already seen as too old when Dumars gave him the contract, and there were grumblings that it was just his reward for past services and the Pistons should just have let him go in free agency.

Anybody who said that had no clue. His contract was fair. He wasn't too old. His game was still tight.

Just because somebody says something doesn't mean it has truth to it. I would love to see a quote from somebody with a good reputation saying that Dumars was dumb for extending Billups.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

He's certainly not young. I don't think a player goes from young to old without an in-between state.

Yold.

Blake sucks.

We agree on something, at least. Actually, Blake doesn't suck at a lot of good things. He just sucks at penetrating and is either excessively cautious or just doesn't see the floor very well.

If we could swap in Baron Davis for Steve Blake right now, on the same contract and without giving up value? Heck, yes. I'd take the chance.

What difference does the contract make? Are you thinking that the Blazers are going to be big players in the 2010 free agency? Who are they going to sign?

But, alas, that would not be the deal. Even if the Clippers gave him away to us, he would be on the books for years at a very high salary.

No contract is untradeable. Except possibly Eddie Curry's.

I'm not afraid of spending Paul Allen's money, but I think that the more extended contract length could cause the worst case from a year or two of explosive badness to years and years of franchise-poisoning badness.

"Explosive"? "Poisoning"? Your "badness" sounds like diarrhea. What's the poison? I don't get it.

Definitely, it's unclear whether Bayless will ever evolve into a quality point guard. I have little doubt, though, that he's going to be a very effective guard, and I think that as long as he can DEFEND point guards, he'll fit in just fine with the Blazers.

Even that is unclear:

The team allowed fewer points per minute, lower effective field goal percentage, fewer assists, and rebounded better on the defensive end when Jerryd was off the court than when he played. His overall plus-minus ended in the negative.

If you're measuring individual production Jerryd lost the overall battle to opposing point guards in almost every category leading to a gap of -5.9 in PER by position. The gap was -13.8 when he moved to shooting guard...a position in which his own PER totaled 0.7.

Damn those stumpy arms!

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I don't agree at all. I don't know why you think this.

Depends what "this" is. If "this" is Billups looking bad against the Celtics, then let me give you one clear example.

Billups had an awesome season 07-08 for the Pistons and the team won 59 games. He was their best player - BY FAR. In fact, he carried that team more than he ever had.

Hey, I don't think you're wrong. I'm just saying that "wholesale changes were needed" (as Dumars said) and Billups had just signed a big contract while he was north of 30.

he still was the best playoff performer for his team. Maybe it was Billup's teammates who were "old and tired".

Not against Boston. Now, it turns out he was injured, but he didn't use that as an excuse.

Anybody who said that had no clue. His contract was fair. He wasn't too old. His game was still tight.

I agree. Of course, hindsight is helpful, isn't it. Remember "Clyde the Slide"? That was before his trade to the Rockets.

Just because somebody says something doesn't mean it has truth to it.

Well, duh. That was, in fact, my point.

 

[Blaze01]

I don't have a problem with POR acquiring an older PG....I don't think we know what type of player Bayless will be yet...and he deserves to get some minutes to develop IMO....

However...trading for a guy like Baron Davis, who IS creeping up in age and more importantly has a horrible contract and an increasing list of injuries is a bad idea IMO....POR could go after Andre Miller or Mike Bibby for example as a 2-4 year stopgap until Bayless (or another PG) is ready to supplant them...it makes the team better now and possibly better for the future and signing either player as a FA would cost POR far less than acquring Davis....

I agree that Davis' best playing days are behind him.....

Unless there is a young PG in this draft that POR really likes or a young guy like Ramon Sessions...who could be available as a FA...then that is really POR only option....There just isn't any upper tier PG on the market...maybe I am wrong, I would be happy to be so, but I haven't heard of any teams with young rising PG or "star" qaulity PG looking to trade them.....