OT A March For Their Lies

[bodyman5000 and 1]

Guess I'm NOT on ignore huh?

 

[CupWizier]

Guess I'm NOT on ignore huh?

You are now. Buh bye!

Well that was a lot of shit just flushed down the toilet, lol.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

You are now. Buh bye!

Well that was a lot of shit just flushed down the toilet, lol.

Whatever, you're still full enough. Bye

 

[Mote]

So the electoral college was designed so that the lower vote getter should win? Why did the framers intend that? And if they did, why don't we have the minority candidate win every time?
It may be working as designed, but it's not working as intended. It's a design flaw. You should know about that being the boat builder you are. People create flaws that need to be fixed.

It is not a design flaw and is working just as the framers intended for a similar reason that the District of Columbia was not and cannot be allowed statehood. The framers of our national laws had very specific intentions and it is not the fault of those who do not understand. It is an indictment of this nations educators for their intentional and utter failure in basic historical education.

 

[riverman]

It is an indictment of this nations educators for their intentional and utter failure in basic historical education.

nonsense....the buck for education starts with parenting.....and Trump didn't know that Israel was part of the middle east or that Putin invaded Ukraine...talk about failed education....this guy has a college degree.....some students pay others to do their homework...others do the work...as a retired teacher...I'll say there are plenty of educated idiots in the world.....memorize and forget is the lazy students way through school...doesn't apply to hard working young folks who put in the work though. Education is not wisdom....one requires passing an exam...the other requires experience in the field.....read the Constitution Parties website and see how far they would like to go back in history to uphold dated info....amending the Constitution is in place for that reason...oral sex is unconstitutional according to the founding fathers..

 

[MarAzul]

nonsense....the buck for education starts with parenting.....and Trump didn't know that Israel was part of the middle east or that Putin invaded Ukraine...talk about failed education....this guy has a college degree.....some students pay others to do their homework...others do the work...as a retired teacher...I'll say there are plenty of educated idiots in the world.....memorize and forget is the lazy students way through school...doesn't apply to hard working young folks who put in the work though.

I find it almost a tragedy when the schools encourage the kid to demonstrate about something they have been very poorly informed about. Their time could be so much better used in learning what they do not know. The error is compounded when informed parents must chose to opt out having their children participate in these mock demonstrations lead by the schools.

 

[MarAzul]

Whatever, you're still full enough. Bye

Ha!
I had not noticed your avatar until attentions was drawn to it.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

Ha!
I had not noticed your avatar until attentions was drawn to it.

If I was on ignore like he said he wouldn't have noticed would he?

 

[riverman]

If I was on ignore like he said he wouldn't have noticed would he?

when someone is on ignore....you can see their posts if you're not logged on....they only disappear after you've logged on...it's how I know that folks I put on ignore should stay there....every few weeks I take everyone off ignore and give it a shot...some folks I put on just during game threads...it's a filter...not a ban hammer...useful function

 

[Stevenson]

It is not a design flaw and is working just as the framers intended for a similar reason that the District of Columbia was not and cannot be allowed statehood. The framers of our national laws had very specific intentions and it is not the fault of those who do not understand. It is an indictment of this nations educators for their intentional and utter failure in basic historical education.

The indictment is when you don't know enough to add an apostrophe to "nation's." In addition, there is no intentional and utter failure to teach history in our schools. That is flatly false.

And as our pal @MarAzul knows, my question was rhetorical, and certainly not for a lack of understanding or eduction. But I guess that's what happens when you come over from O-live, think we roll like you did there, and are late to the party.

 

[Mote]

nonsense....the buck for education starts with parenting.....and Trump didn't know that Israel was part of the middle east or that Putin invaded Ukraine...talk about failed education....this guy has a college degree.....some students pay others to do their homework...others do the work...as a retired teacher...I'll say there are plenty of educated idiots in the world.....memorize and forget is the lazy students way through school...doesn't apply to hard working young folks who put in the work though.

Nonsense? No. Your emotional and disjointed response makes it quite clear you were part of the problem. Given the fact that you were most assuredly a member of the NEA it is understandable you would take that position. The NEA does it's best to keep parents out of the educational process. I have met many great teachers and coaches in the last 15 years as my kids have made their journey through the system. I have also made the observation that the great teachers are, in large part, outnumbered by those with a Marxist leaning. My wife and I have been parents that civilly attend meetings with teachers, administrators and school board to give props where earned and address issues when necessary.

 

[Stevenson]

I'm interested. Marxist leanings? Just what did they do to indicate that they had Marxist leanings? And what are Marxist leanings in your book? Do you even know that, among the left, Marx hasn't been in vogue in, say, 50 years?

What schools did your kids go to? Mine got great educations - they even learned history! - from great teachers who did their best without a lot of money because people like you don't like to pay taxes.

 

[Mote]

The indictment is when you don't know enough to add an apostrophe to "nation's." In addition, there is no intentional and utter failure to teach history in our schools. That is flatly false.

And as our pal @MarAzul knows, my question was rhetorical, and certainly not for a lack of understanding or eduction. But I guess that's what happens when you come over from O-live, think we roll like you did there, and are late to the party.

I am sorry the omission of an apostrophe upset you. I agree your questions were rhetorical. Let’s have a look.

rhetorical question
noun
1. a question asked solely to produce an effect or to make an assertion and not to elicit a reply, as “What is so rare as a day in June?”.

However, after making assertions with those questions, you followed with two statements of fact according to your understanding.

"So the electoral college was designed so that the lower vote getter should win? Why did the framers intend that? And if they did, why don't we have the minority candidate win every time?
1. It may be working as designed, but it's not working as intended. 2.It's a design flaw. You should know about that being the boat builder you are. People create flaws that need to be fixed."

My intention is not to make light of your education as you come off as well educated, but it may not be complete in the history arena. If you take time to read the Federalist and Anti-Federalist papers it will become clear those who penned the Constitution of United States of America knew what they intended and why it was deemed necessary.

 

[MarAzul]

they even learned history! - from great teachers who did their best without a lot of money because people like you don't like to pay taxes.

Oh! Man! Ha!

You had to post that one for your own chuckles. Rather original though. Lefty as hell, but original.

 

[riverman]

No. Your emotional and disjointed response makes it quite clear you were part of the problem

apparently you are a poor judge of the problem and emotional discourse vs value system.....I can speak clearly about successes in education and failures from experience...I also parented students and guided them to success in life...I'm not part of the problem..you made a blanket statement about our system failing to educate....that is an over the top generalization if there ever was one....I've had this discussion..the clear part of discussing these things is to not personally judge a forum member or accuse them of failure....you don't know me...talk about the subject but reserve personal accusations if you want clarity

 

[riverman]

The NEA does it's best to keep parents out of the educational process

Most teachers are also parents by the way

 

[riverman]

outnumbered by those with a Marxist leaning.

couldn't disagree more....students should however be informed about the difference in political systems...for the most part..I believe they are. McCarthy witch hunts ended badly....and for those who are vehemently anti-democratic socialism.....they should never accept Medicare or Social Security checks.....double standard...there are a lot of those...I'm a pro choice capitalist...I think social services are a product of a responsible society. I care for the disabled now and they are sure glad these programs are in place....so am I. One can be a moderate in this country without joining a commune. I'm no Marxist but some folks are just paranoid I guess

 

[MarAzul]

they should never accept Medicare or Social Security checks.....double standard

No river, not a double standard at all. The SS system law was passed and you have to live with it. You can't opt out, so you live with it. We all have laws to live with that you would rather not have. But that is the way our system is.
Telling people not to accept the payment when the time comes is silliness. Where did you get this idea that it is a double standard?

 

[Mote]

apparently you are a poor judge of the problem and emotional discourse vs value system.....I can speak clearly about successes in education and failures from experience...I also parented students and guided them to success in life...I'm not part of the problem..you made a blanket statement about our system failing to educate....that is an over the top generalization if there ever was one....I've had this discussion..the clear part of discussing these things is to not personally judge a forum member or accuse them of failure....you don't know me...talk about the subject but reserve personal accusations if you want clarity

My eldest sister, who I love dearly, recently retired after 21 years teaching and 8 years as Principal so you can see I am no stranger to this subject. I place a high value on clarity, so let’s get started. I will go point by point to help make my position clear.


1. Through the years I have found many friends who are teachers. Some do not accept my position on education and some find my view very accurate. Calling my “judgement [Sic] of the problem” poor is not something I will dwell on, but I would ask what your meaning is for “ emotional discourse vs value system”.

2. I am glad you can speak clearly about successes and failures in education as that will profit more future successes resulting in fewer failures. I am also happy that you parented students to success.

3. In no way did I make an “over the top” blanket statement concerning the entire scope of education. My issue was specific to History. I can say from my own time in high school that history class was deficient and did not get much better when my youngest was in AP U.S. History two years ago. When you gloss over the Constitution of United States of America , the Federalist Papers and the Anti-Federalist papers it’s near impossible to understand why the Constitution was not ratified until the Bill of Rights was included. Let’s use the example of the oath a person takes when testifying in a court of law. We are asked to swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so proper judgment can be found. If we break down the oath it is evident why it is asked in that manner.

Truth – the quality or state of being true
The whole truth – do not withhold any truth
Nothing but the truth – do not add anything to the truth

This standard should be found when we teach our young.

4. I have not questioned your personal ethics, integrity, morals, intelligence or your ability to teach. My issue is with the NEA. If you found a way to avoid being a member of said union, good for you and I will issue a sincere apology. If you were willingly a paying member of the far left leaning NEA I will stand by my statements.

 

[riverman]

The NEA does it's best to keep parents out of the educational process.

The NEA does not keep parents from educating their children...my son grew up in Taiwan for his first public education up until 3rd grade...parents in Taiwan are generally way more invested in the education of their children than most parent here in my view...they also pay for tutoring in many fields...it's part of the culture...as a teacher in Hawaii I didn't see much parental interest in education at all...a lot of my coworkers and myself tutored talented kids on our own dime and made sure they got a library card....I was a member of OSEA and have PERS benefits when I fully retire...although I'm not a big fan of the union....not a fan of tenure either...my wife and I invested time and money in our son's education...he's fortunate that way...history is sometimes not truthful....Taiwan completely scrapped the Chiang Kai Shek era history books which glossed over the brutal takeover of the KMT and genocide of 18 aboriginal tribes and the native Taiwanese....My wife had to relearn history she'd accepted as truth most of her life.

 

[MarAzul]

The NEA does not keep parents from educating their children...my son grew up in Taiwan for his first public education up until 3rd grade...parents in Taiwan are generally way more invested in the education of their children than most parent here in my view...they also pay for tutoring in many fields...it's part of the culture...as a teacher in Hawaii I didn't see much parental interest in education at all...a lot of my coworkers and myself tutored talented kids on our own dime and made sure they got a library card....I was a member of OSEA and have PERS benefits when I fully retire...although I'm not a big fan of the union....not a fan of tenure either...my wife and I invested time and money in our son's education...he's fortunate that way...history is sometimes not truthful....Taiwan completely scrapped the Chiang Kai Shek era history books which glossed over the brutal takeover of the KMT and genocide of 18 aboriginal tribes and the native Taiwanese....My wife had to relearn history she'd accepted as truth most of her life.

You know river, my friend. I actually do think you believe what you say. I have no doubt you taught the best you could see your way to do. I even like to think you are my friend. But...!

Now I will let that hang, because of what you say, that should be obvious to all including you, when people do object what kid are taught or even worse, not taught in the schools.

I still think of you as friend, gone around the bend since you know when, but still friend.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

You know river, my friend. I actually do think you believe what you say. I have no doubt you taught the best you could see your way to do. I even like to think you are my friend. But...!

Now I will let that hang, because of what you say, that should be obvious to all including you, when people do object what kid are taught or even worse, not taught in the schools.

I still think of you as friend, gone around the bend since you know when, but still friend.

 

[dead247]

This video is unavailable.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Context is everything.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/did-gonzalez-admit-bullying-school-shooter/

 

[dead247]

Agreed, and I'm not excusing what happened. At the end of the day, I don't really blame any of the "ostracizing" students for the shooting. What I do take issue with is the suggestion that being more kind to the kid wouldn't have changed anything. Maybe it wouldn't have, but that's never definitive. I know it's not a sexy thought, but being nice to people we come across in our everyday lives is more important than I think a lot of people realize.

Bullying is an underrated problem in our society, plain and simple. I was bullied some when I was younger, although not to any crazy extent. I've also dealt with a good deal of depression/anxiety throughout the years. These experiences, however small on the scale they might've been in my case, allowed me to get a good grip on how similar treatment might cause significantly worse consequences with people who have more severe cases of mental illness. I guess my point is that even a little bit of bullying can pull a lot of weight. Something we should all be cognizant of.

And, I'm not convinced that some of these students who survived and have been in the limelight aren't using the tragedy - even if subconsciously - to grab some personal national attention.

Peace.

 

[Lanny]

That statement is absolutely absurd for two primary reasons.
1. I have every right as a citizen in good standing to defend my family, myself and any other person who may be in mortal danger with any tool equal to that available to the adversary.
2. No where have I indicated that spraying (which is lifted from "spray and pray" in the foliage) unaccounted rounds was a good tactical or prudent operation of equipment.

By the way... there is no such thing as endless firepower.

Geez, don't be so literal. Endless meant virtually endless. In other words a great deal of rounds fired.

If your adversary suddenly shows up with a bazooka that doesn't mean you have the right to purchase a bazooka in advance just in case a home intruder attacks you with one. No, we place limitations on weapons for a reason. The only question is where do we draw the line.

Side note, by bazooka I'm using an archaic term to represent the modern wire guided missile.

 

[Lanny]

I understand. Unfortunately, I did take the time to read the article in question. The accusations against those in support of 2nd Amendment principles were straight out of Saul Alinsky's book Rules for Radicals. Alinsky was a devout student of Karl Marx and a self proclaimed "Community Organizer"... (gee, where have we heard that before)... that made it his life goal to place our U.S. Constitution into the trash bin of historical writings.

To answer your question, you heard that from those who devoted their lives to trashing President Obama for no good reason.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

Agreed, and I'm not excusing what happened. At the end of the day, I don't really blame any of the "ostracizing" students for the shooting. What I do take issue with is the suggestion that being more kind to the kid wouldn't have changed anything. Maybe it wouldn't have, but that's never definitive. I know it's not a sexy thought, but being nice to people we come across in our everyday lives is more important than I think a lot of people realize.

Bullying is an underrated problem in our society, plain and simple. I was bullied some when I was younger, although not to any crazy extent. I've also dealt with a good deal of depression/anxiety throughout the years. These experiences, however small on the scale they might've been in my case, allowed me to get a good grip on how similar treatment might cause significantly worse consequences with people who have more severe cases of mental illness. I guess my point is that even a little bit of bullying can pull a lot of weight. Something we should all be cognizant of.

And, I'm not convinced that some of these students who survived and have been in the limelight aren't using the tragedy - even if subconsciously - to grab some personal national attention.

Peace.

I'll never forget the first month of Kindergarten. One kid who seemed normal to me asked my teacher if he could use the bathroom right after recess. She said no and 10 minutes later he peed himself.

She made him wear a diaper and t shirt the rest of the day. I watched that kid snap right in front of us that day I SWEAR TO GOD.

He was always picked on from that day forward. I think he came from a pretty neglected home too so it was worse than it should have been.

 

[Lanny]

I'll never forget the first month of Kindergarten. One kid who seemed normal to me asked my teacher if he could use the bathroom right after recess. She said no and 10 minutes later he peed himself.

She made him wear a diaper and t shirt the rest of the day. I watched that kid snap right in front of us that day I SWEAR TO GOD.

He was always picked on from that day forward. I think he came from a pretty neglected home too so it was worse than it should have been.

That teacher should have been fired right then and there. I would have had a security guard escort him/her off the premises.

Dear Lord, I hope that wasn't Mrs. Gardner, my kindergarten teacher.

Oh by the way, I think it was Ronnie Fisher that lived across the street from me. In that house, the father bought a new Ford every year.

 

[MARIS61]

I'll never forget the first month of Kindergarten. One kid who seemed normal to me asked my teacher if he could use the bathroom right after recess. She said no and 10 minutes later he peed himself.

She made him wear a diaper and t shirt the rest of the day. I watched that kid snap right in front of us that day I SWEAR TO GOD.

He was always picked on from that day forward. I think he came from a pretty neglected home too so it was worse than it should have been.

I could share 4 or 5 similarly sick stories about teachers I had.

Most of my ps teachers were poorly educated themselves, lazy and took no pride in their work.

Only one truly inspired me, Dorothy Stafford, my 3rd grade teacher and wife of poet laureate William Stafford. She was a lot like my mother, extremely aware and a lover of books who encouraged me to fully explore all sides of everything before doubting or dismissing anything, no matter how absurd or impossible one side may seem at first. Often a rational look changes impossible to probable.

Maybe 6 were genuinely dedicated to teaching and made learning interesting, but I spent a lot of time at the library and learned more each hour there than a week of school.