Politics A new witness is about to damage Trump.

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SlyPokerDog

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For some Fox News personalities, apparently, there is no greater expression of disloyalty to country than a display of disloyalty to President Trump.

On Tuesday, Lt. Col. Alexander S. Vindman, a Ukraine expert in the White House, is set to testify to House impeachment investigators that he recoiled at Trump’s repeated demand that Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky manufacture smears of Trump’s potential campaign opponent Joe Biden.

Vindman will testify that he viewed this as an act of patriotism, because he saw Trump’s corrupt conduct as damaging to U.S. national security. So, naturally, Fox News figures are already questioning Vindman’s loyalty to our country — or, more precisely, to Trump himself.

Evidently, placing country before Trump is the ultimate act of supreme betrayal.

Vindman’s testimony will be important. As a member of the National Security Council, he’ll be the first White House official to testify that he listened in on Trump’s July 25 call with Zelensky — and was profoundly disturbed by it.

On that call, of course, Trump corruptly pressured Zelensky to validate conspiracy theories undermining the confirmed fact of Russian sabotage of the 2016 election on Trump’s behalf, and to help Trump rig the 2020 election by smearing Biden.

In his opening statement, Vindman says he “did not think it was proper to demand that a foreign government investigate a U.S. citizen.” Vindman is a decorated lieutenant colonel, so when he delivers this message once the inquiry moves into its public phase, it could be very compelling.

What’s more, Vindman will blow a big hole in one of Trump’s most important defenses.

Vindman discusses a key meeting on July 10 with Ukrainian officials, who expressed their desire for a Trump-Zelensky meeting. Vindman then says Gordon Sondland — the ambassador to the European Union — “started to speak about Ukraine delivering specific investigations in order to secure the meeting with the President.”

That further nails down part of the quid pro quo. But there’s more. Sondland’s demand prompted then-national security adviser John Bolton to “cut the meeting short.” Then Vindman testifies that this happened:

Following this meeting, there was a scheduled debriefing during which Amb. Sondland emphasized the importance that Ukraine deliver the investigations into the 2016 election, the Bidens, and Burisma. I stated to Amb. Sondland that his statements were inappropriate, that the request to investigate Biden and his son had nothing to do with national security, and that such investigations were not something the NSC was going to get involved in or push.

Vindman adds that Fiona Hill, the White House’s former Russia adviser, also informed Sondland that this was inappropriate.

All of this comports with Hill’s own testimony that Bolton was so irate about what he’d heard that he referred to it as a “drug deal” that Sondland and acting White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney were “cooking up.”

What’s notable here is Vindman’s assertion that in that subsequent debriefing, they discussed the demand for an investigation into the Bidens in particular. As Ryan Goodman notes, this contradicts Sondland’s own testimony that he didn’t recall any discussion of the Bidens, so Sondland may be legally exposed now.

Here’s why this matters. One key Trump defense has been to claim that all he wanted was for Ukraine to investigate generic corruption. That’s belied by the fact that Trump’s lawyer Rudolph Giuliani repeatedly and publicly called on Ukraine to investigate the Bidens going back to at least May — and that Trump named Biden on the July 25 call — but put that aside for now.

One big revelation from William Taylor, the acting ambassador to Ukraine, is that he testified that Sondland had privately noted internally that Trump was demanding that Zelensky publicly announce an investigation of the Bidens.

So here we have Vindman, a sympathetic witness, offering further corroboration of just how well understood it was that the Bidens, not generic corruption, were the real target of the “investigations” Trump wanted. Trump again just raged that there was nothing wrong with his call, but this defense is collapsing.

Which brings us to Fox News’s smear of Vindman.



The Fox smear


Fox’s Laura Ingraham unleashed a diatribe against Vindman on Monday night that focused on the fact that Ukrainians privately solicited Vindman’s help in navigating difficulties created by Giuliani running this shadow policy toward Ukraine. Watch:

"Here we have a U.S. national security official who is advising Ukraine while working inside the White House, apparently against the president’s interests,” Ingraham railed. Former George W. Bush administration lawyer John Yoo called this potential “espionage.”

Note here Ingraham’s frank admission that Vindman was working against the president’s interests.

You see, Giuliani’s shadow policy toward Ukraine was not in the interests of the United States. It was in Trump’s interests. Giuliani himself declared in May that this scheme would be “very helpful to my client.”

Ingraham is unwittingly admitting the obvious here: In trying to keep our foreign policy aligned with our own national interests, Vindman was operating against those of the president. And this is the real betrayal for which Vindman must be destroyed.



Trump isn’t operating in our interests


Along these lines, note Vindman’s testimony that the “false narrative” at the core of the Trump-Giuliani effort was “harmful" to the United States, because it undermined U.S. efforts to “expand cooperation with Ukraine” and “lock in Ukraine’s Western-leaning trajectory" as a bulwark against Russia. The narrative, and the use of Ukraine as a pawn to serve Trump’s political interests, is good for Trump (and Russia). But it’s bad for the United States and Western liberal democracy.

Vindman, then, will join numerous long-serving government professionals who have stepped forth to declare that Trump’s interests and those of the United States have vastly diverged — and that Trump and his ringleaders have perverted and manipulated our foreign policy to serve his interests, and not ours.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...amage-trump-fox-news-is-already-smearing-him/
 
Trump: I don't even know the guy. I probably took a picture with him because, you know, I take pictures with everyone, but I don't know who the guy is.
 
For some Fox News personalities, apparently, there is no greater expression of disloyalty to country than a display of disloyalty to President Trump.

On Tuesday, Lt. Col. Alexander S. Vindman, a Ukraine expert in the White House, is set to testify to House impeachment investigators that he recoiled at Trump’s repeated demand that Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky manufacture smears of Trump’s potential campaign opponent Joe Biden.

Vindman will testify that he viewed this as an act of patriotism, because he saw Trump’s corrupt conduct as damaging to U.S. national security. So, naturally, Fox News figures are already questioning Vindman’s loyalty to our country — or, more precisely, to Trump himself.

Evidently, placing country before Trump is the ultimate act of supreme betrayal.

Vindman’s testimony will be important. As a member of the National Security Council, he’ll be the first White House official to testify that he listened in on Trump’s July 25 call with Zelensky — and was profoundly disturbed by it.

On that call, of course, Trump corruptly pressured Zelensky to validate conspiracy theories undermining the confirmed fact of Russian sabotage of the 2016 election on Trump’s behalf, and to help Trump rig the 2020 election by smearing Biden.

In his opening statement, Vindman says he “did not think it was proper to demand that a foreign government investigate a U.S. citizen.” Vindman is a decorated lieutenant colonel, so when he delivers this message once the inquiry moves into its public phase, it could be very compelling.

What’s more, Vindman will blow a big hole in one of Trump’s most important defenses.

Vindman discusses a key meeting on July 10 with Ukrainian officials, who expressed their desire for a Trump-Zelensky meeting. Vindman then says Gordon Sondland — the ambassador to the European Union — “started to speak about Ukraine delivering specific investigations in order to secure the meeting with the President.”

That further nails down part of the quid pro quo. But there’s more. Sondland’s demand prompted then-national security adviser John Bolton to “cut the meeting short.” Then Vindman testifies that this happened:

Following this meeting, there was a scheduled debriefing during which Amb. Sondland emphasized the importance that Ukraine deliver the investigations into the 2016 election, the Bidens, and Burisma. I stated to Amb. Sondland that his statements were inappropriate, that the request to investigate Biden and his son had nothing to do with national security, and that such investigations were not something the NSC was going to get involved in or push.

Vindman adds that Fiona Hill, the White House’s former Russia adviser, also informed Sondland that this was inappropriate.

All of this comports with Hill’s own testimony that Bolton was so irate about what he’d heard that he referred to it as a “drug deal” that Sondland and acting White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney were “cooking up.”

What’s notable here is Vindman’s assertion that in that subsequent debriefing, they discussed the demand for an investigation into the Bidens in particular. As Ryan Goodman notes, this contradicts Sondland’s own testimony that he didn’t recall any discussion of the Bidens, so Sondland may be legally exposed now.

Here’s why this matters. One key Trump defense has been to claim that all he wanted was for Ukraine to investigate generic corruption. That’s belied by the fact that Trump’s lawyer Rudolph Giuliani repeatedly and publicly called on Ukraine to investigate the Bidens going back to at least May — and that Trump named Biden on the July 25 call — but put that aside for now.

One big revelation from William Taylor, the acting ambassador to Ukraine, is that he testified that Sondland had privately noted internally that Trump was demanding that Zelensky publicly announce an investigation of the Bidens.

So here we have Vindman, a sympathetic witness, offering further corroboration of just how well understood it was that the Bidens, not generic corruption, were the real target of the “investigations” Trump wanted. Trump again just raged that there was nothing wrong with his call, but this defense is collapsing.

Which brings us to Fox News’s smear of Vindman.



The Fox smear


Fox’s Laura Ingraham unleashed a diatribe against Vindman on Monday night that focused on the fact that Ukrainians privately solicited Vindman’s help in navigating difficulties created by Giuliani running this shadow policy toward Ukraine. Watch:

"Here we have a U.S. national security official who is advising Ukraine while working inside the White House, apparently against the president’s interests,” Ingraham railed. Former George W. Bush administration lawyer John Yoo called this potential “espionage.”

Note here Ingraham’s frank admission that Vindman was working against the president’s interests.

You see, Giuliani’s shadow policy toward Ukraine was not in the interests of the United States. It was in Trump’s interests. Giuliani himself declared in May that this scheme would be “very helpful to my client.”

Ingraham is unwittingly admitting the obvious here: In trying to keep our foreign policy aligned with our own national interests, Vindman was operating against those of the president. And this is the real betrayal for which Vindman must be destroyed.



Trump isn’t operating in our interests


Along these lines, note Vindman’s testimony that the “false narrative” at the core of the Trump-Giuliani effort was “harmful" to the United States, because it undermined U.S. efforts to “expand cooperation with Ukraine” and “lock in Ukraine’s Western-leaning trajectory" as a bulwark against Russia. The narrative, and the use of Ukraine as a pawn to serve Trump’s political interests, is good for Trump (and Russia). But it’s bad for the United States and Western liberal democracy.

Vindman, then, will join numerous long-serving government professionals who have stepped forth to declare that Trump’s interests and those of the United States have vastly diverged — and that Trump and his ringleaders have perverted and manipulated our foreign policy to serve his interests, and not ours.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...amage-trump-fox-news-is-already-smearing-him/


^^^ Yup, and Trump and his minions as well as Fox News either already have or soon will, refer to Vindman as a "never-Trumper".
 
^^^ Yup, and Trump and his minions as well as Fox News either already have or soon will, refer to Vindman as a "never-Trumper".

Yep, that's their new attack point calling anyone that says anything against trump as a never trumper. I am a proud member of the never trumpers.
 
Yep, that's their new attack point calling anyone that says anything against trump as a never trumper. I am a proud member of the never trumpers.

I think the use of the term "never trumper" (or never whatever), is a very dangerous precedent. It seems to suggest that A: anyone who is against you is wrong and b: no one is allowed to change their minds. It's obviously a scare tactic, done to intimidate people. But whats funny is, the people who are doing the intimidating are schlubs, and the person who they're doing the intimidating FOR is a huge knob. The biggest.
 
Intelligence panel Democrat: It appears Sondland committed perjury

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/467851-castro-it-appears-sondland-committed-perjury



EIAvJUYWoAAdrQX

EIAvJUUXkAIWkAP
 
Key witness Vindman’s twin brother — also a White House aide — can confirm bombshell impeachment testimony
October 29, 2019 By Travis Gettys

The twin brother of a National Security Council staffer will corroborate his bombshell testimony before the House impeachment inquiry.

Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman, the NSC’s top Ukraine expert, took his twin to a meeting where he voiced his concerns about President Donald Trump’s phone call to his Ukrainian counterpart, reported the New York Times.

The active-duty Army officer will tell lawmakers about the July 25 phone call, which was the subject of a whistleblower complaint that launched the impeachment inquiry.

Alexander Vindman took is twin brother, Yevgeny Vindman — also an Army lieutenant colonel who works for the NSC handling ethics issues — to a meeting with John Eisenberg, the top NSC lawyer, to raise concerns about the president’s conduct on the call.

https://www.rawstory.com/2019/10/ke...-can-confirm-bombshell-impeachment-testimony/
 
In before Trump calls the twins "Dumb and Dumber", "Tweedledee and Tweedledum", or some other twin-based insult.

barfo
 
In before Trump calls the twins "Dumb and Dumber", "Tweedledee and Tweedledum", or some other twin-based insult.

barfo

He'll probably make a reference to Buffy and Jody, since he's so up to date on his insults.
 
Yet still some blind sheep will see what Trump has done and is doing as OK...how can people be so self serving and so gullible ?...and so derelict in their oath of office ?
 
Yet still some blind sheep will see what Trump has done and is doing as OK...how can people be so self serving and so gullible ?...and so derelict in their oath of office ?
Again, if there was this much obvious evidence and even admission of a quid pro quo from/against Obama these Trumpets would be shitting in their pants, literally. Streams of diarrhea pouring down their pant legs and in total hysterics.
 
Again, if there was this much obvious evidence and even admission of a quid pro quo from/against Obama these Trumpets would be shitting in their pants, literally. Streams of diarrhea pouring down their pant legs and in total hysterics.

Absolutely, and like I said earlier, "You just gotta love the hypocrisy".
 
Republicans can never say they are for their country or for the military. Ever. Again.

The party is done and gone and its because they hitched their ride to the only person who would actually carry out the "values" they were really about: hatred, separation, and disgust towards all humans that arent with their hateful ideology.

Never again will a republican senator or any republican Canidate be seen As anything other than a hateful, spiteful hypocrite.

And they made the bed.

I hope someday they wake up and see the disaster. But i doubt it. They created it. Enabled it. And for lack of a better term, wanted it.

Because this is who republican senators really are.
 
Republicans can never say they are for their country or for the military. Ever. Again.

The party is done and gone and its because they hitched their ride to the only person who would actually carry out the "values" they were really about: hatred, separation, and disgust towards all humans that arent with their hateful ideology.

Never again will a republican senator or any republican Canidate be seen As anything other than a hateful, spiteful hypocrite.

And they made the bed.

I hope someday they wake up and see the disaster. But i doubt it. They created it. Enabled it. And for lack of a better term, wanted it.

Because this is who republican senators really are.
I disagree with you a lot. All republicans can never say their for their country again? or the military? really all of them?

All republicans are fueled by values of hatred, separation, and disgust towards all humans that aren't with their hateful ideology? really?

Come on, casting such a huge generalization over all republicans seems a bit off.

Then you go on and say all republican candidates and senators will all be seen as hateful spiteful hypocrites?

If this is honestly how people feel towards each other I think the United States should just split in two, because there is no coming back from two sides that legitimately hate each other, which it sounds like you do (though I shouldn't put words in your mouth).
 
Republicans can never say they are for their country or for the military. Ever. Again.

The party is done and gone and its because they hitched their ride to the only person who would actually carry out the "values" they were really about: hatred, separation, and disgust towards all humans that arent with their hateful ideology.

Never again will a republican senator or any republican Canidate be seen As anything other than a hateful, spiteful hypocrite.

And they made the bed.

I hope someday they wake up and see the disaster. But i doubt it. They created it. Enabled it. And for lack of a better term, wanted it.

Because this is who republican senators really are.
I dont agree with this just like I don't agree that all dem extreme progressive/socialist, open boarders, or decibels of the Clintonian doctrine.
Just my opinion....
 
The only chance the GOP as we know it, has in order to survive is IF they finally develop some semblance of a backbone and finally unite and call out Trump for his BS.
 
I disagree with you a lot. All republicans can never say their for their country again? or the military? really all of them?

All republicans are fueled by values of hatred, separation, and disgust towards all humans that aren't with their hateful ideology? really?

Come on, casting such a huge generalization over all republicans seems a bit off.

Then you go on and say all republican candidates and senators will all be seen as hateful spiteful hypocrites?

If this is honestly how people feel towards each other I think the United States should just split in two, because there is no coming back from two sides that legitimately hate each other, which it sounds like you do (though I shouldn't put words in your mouth).
I don’t agree with you on this. Clearly we are talking the party in general. The individuals in the party are not showing an ounce of integrity and showing they cant be subjective. They are hitching their wagon to someone who repeatedly and FACTUALLY lies and is perfectly fine misleading his base. Unfortunately, his base isn’t smart, and they fall for it. It’s the perfect storm. If the party as a whole stands by and supports blatant lies and immoral behavior they are guilty. You are who you surround yourself with, as they say. This party is not, however, “falling apart”. That’s the problem. In my opinion it’s only getting started.
 
I don’t agree with you on this. Clearly we are talking the party in general. The individuals in the party are not showing an ounce of integrity and showing they cant be subjective. They are hitching their wagon to someone who repeatedly and FACTUALLY lies and is perfectly fine misleading his base. Unfortunately, his base isn’t smart, and they fall for it. It’s the perfect storm. If the party as a whole stands by and supports blatant lies and immoral behavior they are guilty. You are who you surround yourself with, as they say. This party is not, however, “falling apart”. That’s the problem. In my opinion it’s only getting started.
There are a lot of “republican” individuals who dont like Trump though. There are a lot of republicans who dont support him. So the leadership does, but as we saw in 2018 people have spoken against a lot of those people. I just disagree with painting every single R as a hateful, spineless, whatever because of Trump or a bunch of old GOPer’s.
Sure in general the GOP does not look good and their whole “values” thing looks very hypocritical right now, but I think speaking in such broad brushes and painting them all that way does 0 good it just fans the flames.
 
There are a lot of “republican” individuals who dont like Trump though. There are a lot of republicans who dont support him. So the leadership does, but as we saw in 2018 people have spoken against a lot of those people. I just disagree with painting every single R as a hateful, spineless, whatever because of Trump or a bunch of old GOPer’s.
Sure in general the GOP does not look good and their whole “values” thing looks very hypocritical right now, but I think speaking in such broad brushes and painting them all that way does 0 good it just fans the flames.

Good. Fan the flames. Maybe it’ll burn it down. Who are these Republicans who are speaking out and taking a stand against Trump? Romney’s tweet? That’s the big stand? It sure wasn’t any of the 20+ dinks who stormed the impeachment hearings or whatever the fuck that was. I don’t hear them on Fox. I heard a Fox anchor go against trump. He’s no longer there, how weird.
 
Good. Fan the flames. Maybe it’ll burn it down. Who are these Republicans who are speaking out and taking a stand against Trump? Romney’s tweet? That’s the big stand? It sure wasn’t any of the 20+ dinks who stormed the impeachment hearings or whatever the fuck that was. I don’t hear them on Fox. I heard a Fox anchor go against trump. He’s no longer there, how weird.
I wouldn't know what you’re hearing on fox cause I never watch it.

Here’s the reality though, there are people on both sides who feel threatened by the other right now, who feel like their political leanings make it so they have 0 value as people and fanning the flames all that does is create more violence, more hate crimes, all the stuff that I have seen you complain about when it happens. The reason why Trump is so bad is because he’s divisive, he spreads it and feeds off of it. It will lead us to civil war if people dont stop with the over generalizations and constant if you arent on my side then you can just burn in hell. Sure we can complain about the DNC and the GOP and they both need their reform or abolishment, or more parties with new ideas, but when people run around the internet and brandish about how everyone sucks they’re all bigots, all people hear is they arent worth it, they’re life isnt worth it, and then they go shoot up places. Then we all jump on the internet to go point fingers at everyone else and our politicians for gun laws all the while looking for reasons to stereotype and create a cycle of hate, which is where we are today. If you really want less violence, and less mental health problems and for less divisiveness from our politics then as a society we have to stop fanning those flames and telling our politicians that it sells well.
 
For the record you're completely free to have your opinion and to speak it, and I get it the GOP looks awfully bad right now. I just think it's dangerous to just fan the flames, it seems like a lot of hate begets hate type of stuff going on and I just have a different opinion on how to handle it, but that's life we have different opinions on stuff.
 
Just read they've found the Trump phone call transcript was doctored to eliminate incriminating conversations....figures. Perfect phone call! Thanks to my editor! He's been spouting "read the transcripts" since this impeachment proceeding. Now we know why.
 
Just read they've found the Trump phone call transcript was doctored to eliminate incriminating conversations....figures. Perfect phone call! Thanks to my editor! He's been spouting "read the transcripts" since this impeachment proceeding. Now we know why.
You got a link?
 
I wouldn't know what you’re hearing on fox cause I never watch it.

Here’s the reality though, there are people on both sides who feel threatened by the other right now, who feel like their political leanings make it so they have 0 value as people and fanning the flames all that does is create more violence, more hate crimes, all the stuff that I have seen you complain about when it happens. The reason why Trump is so bad is because he’s divisive, he spreads it and feeds off of it. It will lead us to civil war if people dont stop with the over generalizations and constant if you arent on my side then you can just burn in hell. Sure we can complain about the DNC and the GOP and they both need their reform or abolishment, or more parties with new ideas, but when people run around the internet and brandish about how everyone sucks they’re all bigots, all people hear is they arent worth it, they’re life isnt worth it, and then they go shoot up places. Then we all jump on the internet to go point fingers at everyone else and our politicians for gun laws all the while looking for reasons to stereotype and create a cycle of hate, which is where we are today. If you really want less violence, and less mental health problems and for less divisiveness from our politics then as a society we have to stop fanning those flames and telling our politicians that it sells well.

At this point you have to fight fire with fire. Trump and his lunatic fans don’t play fair. They lie, cheat and spread a false narrative. If you sit back and play nice it’ll never stop. I’m not worried about a “civil war”, so to me this is all just to get them out of office and hopefully in jail. Fuck them.
 
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