A trade I suggested in another forum

[Nate]

I wouldn't do that trade for either of them straight up. Both of them are are better than Olynyk....

This

 

[BonesJones]

For real though, the number one rule in a consolation trade is the team consolidating (likely us) needs to receive the best player/asset in the trade.

But one thing I don't understand is why everyone thinks we need to consolidate two big men for one big man. There's no big men that are are attainable and enough of an upgrade to make sense via consolidation. I would look at all positions, as I would be open to consolidating Harkless and a center for a great wing.

Yes, I know we're loaded at the wing, but I think we have the minutes available to upgrade Harkless.

Something like;
NOP Gets: Harkless and Plumlee
We Get: Jrue Holiday and the Right to Swap 2018 1sts (top 6 or whatever protection)

Of course, you only do that trade if Holiday is open to playing 26 minutes off the bench for a contender and would give you opportunity to resign him this summer.

Lillard (35) / Holiday (13)
McCollum (34) / Holiday (14)
Turner (23) / Crabbe (25)
Aminu (30) / Davis (16) / Turner (2)
Ezeli (22) /Leonard (20) / Davis (6)

-Holiday gets 27min, Turner and Crabbe get 25min. That's enough to make something like that work, and we'd have the best 6th, 7th, and 8th men in the league. Even if it's a different player than Holiday (as it might be too risky with his contract expiring, or NOP might not want to give him up), there's some deals for wing players out there that make sense for a consolidation trade.

 

[Orion Bailey]

For real though, the number one rule in a consolation trade is the team consolidating (likely us) needs to receive the best player/asset in the trade.

But one thing I don't understand is why everyone thinks we need to consolidate two big men for one big man. There's no big men that are are attainable and enough of an upgrade to make sense via consolidation. I would look at all positions, as I would be open to consolidating Harkless and a center for a great wing.

Yes, I know we're loaded at the wing, but I think we have the minutes available to upgrade Harkless.

Something like;
NOP Gets: Harkless and Plumlee
We Get: Jrue Holiday and the Right to Swap 2018 1sts (top 6 or whatever protection)

Of course, you only do that trade if Holiday is open to playing 26 minutes off the bench for a contender and would give you opportunity to resign him this summer.

Lillard (35) / Holiday (13)
McCollum (34) / Holiday (14)
Turner (23) / Crabbe (25)
Aminu (30) / Davis (16) / Turner (2)
Ezeli (22) /Leonard (20) / Davis (6)

-Holiday gets 27min, Turner and Crabbe get 25min. That's enough to make something like that work, and we'd have the best 6th, 7th, and 8th men in the league. Even if it's a different player than Holiday (as it might be too risky with his contract expiring, or NOP might not want to give him up), there's some deals for wing players out there that make sense for a consolidation trade.

This looks good, except, and very minor, No way Turner gets minutes at the four with Vonleh on the roster. Vonleh will take those 2 minutes and be a better option at the 4 in almost all instances. Turner would get worked at the 4 spot by most PFs im thinking.

 

[BonesJones]

This looks good, except, and very minor, No way Turner gets minutes at the four with Vonleh on the roster. Vonleh will take those 2 minutes and be a better option at the 4 in almost all instances. Turner would get worked at the 4 spot by most PFs im thinking.

The very few minutes he'd get there would be when other teams go small (ex. DAL playing Barnes at the 4). It doesn't matter though. The point I'm making is we could consolidate for a wing and still find enough minutes for everyone.

 

[Orion Bailey]

The very few minutes he'd get there would be when other teams go small (ex. DAL playing Barnes at the 4). It doesn't matter though. The point I'm making is we could consolidate for a wing and still find enough minutes for everyone.

Which, in my opinion, is still our biggest weakness even with the addition of Turner.
A true SF/PF that plays on the outside with a good outside shot. We don't have one.

 

[BonesJones]

Which, in my opinion, is still our biggest weakness even with the addition of Turner.
A true SF/PF that plays on the outside with a good outside shot. We don't have one.

Aminu is. Not many teams have one.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Aminu is. Not many teams have one.

Outside shot is fairly suspect though. He improved big time last year, but still isn't considered an outside threat is he? Plus his dribbling sucks.

 

[tester551]

Outside shot is fairly suspect though. He improved big time last year, but still isn't considered an outside threat is he? Plus his dribbling sucks.

Look through the league depth charts. There is a dearth of good SF in the league who have a good outside shot, can dribble, pass, and also play small ball PF.

The only ones that can do that are the ***ALL NBA*** players like LeBron, Durant, and George.

Aminu has his limitations, but he's better than most.

 

[dviss1]

There aren't enough minutes for all the big men. Aminu and Harkless are both better suited to play the 4 which gives us too many inside players

Are there pill bugs and worms under that rock? MO is a SF.

 

[dviss1]

I would be open to consolidating Harkless and a center for a great wing.

Yes, I know we're loaded at the wing, but I think we have the minutes available to upgrade Harkless.

Harkless goes nowhere!

 

[riverman]

I like seeing how things pan out by the trade deadline...when really talented players get sick of playing with or for assholes and you can decide to trade a big for a weak spot wherever it is...Neil likes asset accumulation and we're deep enough to tempt some teams after January who need to do a trade...until then we can just enjoy being deep

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Nurkic would be one of my targets. The Nuggets are going to find out that neither Nurkic or Jokic are PFs - even in spurts.

Olynyk would be a great fit here in this system.

Whomever Neil targets he has to consolidate this logjam at PF and C.

 

[Strenuus]

I like seeing how things pan out by the trade deadline...when really talented players get sick of playing with or for assholes and you can decide to trade a big for a weak spot wherever it is...Neil likes asset accumulation and we're deep enough to tempt some teams after January who need to do a trade...until then we can just enjoy being deep

Funny, that sounds eerily similar to when I told MS. HCP "He's not home yet... until then, we can just enjoy being deep."

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Nurkic would be one of my targets. The Nuggets are going to find out that neither Nurkic or Jokic are PFs - even in spurts.

Olynyk would be a great fit here in this system.

Whomever Neil targets he has to consolidate this logjam at PF and C.

Agreed--a consolidation trade to bring in Nurkic would be an absolute win.

 

[BlazerWookee]

Funny, that sounds eerily similar to when I told MS. HCP "He's not home yet... until then, we can just enjoy being deep."

For a second, I thought you were going to quote Fez instead of river: "Until then, we can just enjoy consolidate this logjam..."

 

[Harry's Raincoat]

Stupid trade idea. We don't need a short-armed T-Rex Center. Trade doesn't work anyway.

Secondly, will BonesJones please please please stop suggesting that Evan Turner will be playing positions other than SF and b/u PG!!!!!! That's where he will play. You keep ignoring his history. Please stop! He's not going to be playing b/u minutes at SG (that'll be Crabbe) nor b/u PF (that'll be Vonleh and Leonard and Davis). It WILL be b/u PG and some starting SF.

 

[Blazer4ever]

Stupid trade idea. We don't need a short-armed T-Rex Center. Trade doesn't work anyway.

Secondly, will BonesJones please please please stop suggesting that Evan Turner will be playing positions other than SF and b/u PG!!!!!! That's where he will play. You keep ignoring his history. Please stop! He's not going to be playing b/u minutes at SG (that'll be Crabbe) nor b/u PF (that'll be Vonleh and Leonard and Davis). It WILL be b/u PG and some starting SF.

The trade I suggested is more stupid than Turner (a player with suspicious handles) playing backup PG? Really?

 

[Strenuus]

The trade I suggested is more stupid than Turner (a player with suspicious handles) playing backup PG? Really?

Well, considering this trade.... and the fact that you've put players in the wrong positions....

Yeah.

 

[Blazer4ever]

Well, considering this trade.... and the fact that you've put players in the wrong positions....

Yeah.

You know me long enough to know that I'm almost never wrong

 

[Pinwheel1]

Stupid trade idea. We don't need a short-armed T-Rex Center. Trade doesn't work anyway.

Secondly, will BonesJones please please please stop suggesting that Evan Turner will be playing positions other than SF and b/u PG!!!!!! That's where he will play. You keep ignoring his history. Please stop! He's not going to be playing b/u minutes at SG (that'll be Crabbe) nor b/u PF (that'll be Vonleh and Leonard and Davis). It WILL be b/u PG and some starting SF.

I really hope you are wrong with the SG projection. History (or at least rumor) suggests he played better at SG last year that at SF. He has better handles than Crabbe and since AC has a longer wingspan than ET (Over 3 inches) I would prefer he and Harkless get the minutes at SF.

 

[tester551]

I really hope you are wrong with the SG projection. History (or at least rumor) suggests he played better at SG last year that at SF. He has better handles than Crabbe and since AC has a longer wingspan than ET (Over 3 inches) I would prefer he and Harkless get the minutes at SF.

Turner will play both SG & SF. His stats from last year show he was slightly better (1.3 pnts/48mins) at the SG position.

 

[BlazerWookee]

You know me long enough to know that I'm almost never wrong

I thought I was wrong once, too. But I was mistaken.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Turner will start at the 3. Crabbe will back up both the 2 and 3. I woundn't really call Turner a backup PG. He'll be more of a point forward when Dame or C.J. goes to the bench. This will be similar to the role Batum used to play with the second unit. The difference is Turner will always (or at least almost always) have one of Dame or C.J. on the floor with him to bring the ball up the court if the other team is pressing full court. But once in the half court, the offense can be run through Turner, allowing Dame or C.J. (whichever is in the game) to play off the ball.

With so many versatile players, traditional positions become blurry. Yes, Dame will be our starting PG, C.J. our starting SG and Turner our starting SF, but when one of those guys goes to the bench the roles of the remaining two will likely change. Draymond Green is not a PG, but when GSW goes small, the offense runs through him allowing Curry to play off the ball and focus more on his own scoring than creating for others. Turner will not be a small ball center or even a small ball PF, nor will he be the guy bring the ball up the court against pressure, but he will be the guy, regardless of what position he is playing, initiating the offense and creating for others when one of Lillard or McCollum is on the bench.

That's on offense. Again with so many versatile players capable of playing multiple positions, the defensive assignments may not match the position they are playing on offense. For example, when both Turner and Crabbe are in the game, Crabbe will play the SG role on offense, but likely guard the other teams SF at the other end. With this versatile roster and today's NBA, pigeonholing players into traditional roles no longer makes sense.

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

Turner will play both SG & SF. His stats from last year show he was slightly better (1.3 pnts/48mins) at the SG position.
View attachment 10043

I'm not sure if that really says Turner is "better" playing SG than SF. I think it just reflects the overall weakness of the SG position in today's NBA. At SF, you get matched up against the LeBron Jameses and Kevin Durants of the world. So, that's going to negatively impact your net48 while playing that position.

But, because C.J. is our starting SG, Turner will start at SF. When C.J. or Dame go to the bench, things start to get fuzzy with respect to positions. As I said in my previous post, it becomes more about roles and responsibilities than about positions, per se.

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

The trade I suggested is more stupid than Turner (a player with suspicious handles) playing backup PG? Really?

Yeah, really. Sorry dude, that was seriously one of the worst trade proposals I have ever seen in this, or any, forum. It wasn't remotely feasible under the CBA and we ended up giving up two players better, and on longer term contracts, than the one we'd get back. In order to get the salaries to match, we'd have to take back more players, invalidating your stated goal of consolidation. It was just a poorly conceived trade on every possible level.

And, as I said, Turner's real role, with the second unit, will be point forward. He will have one of Dame and C.J. on the court with him to bring the ball up the court if the other team is pressing, but once the press is broken, the offense will run through Turner. Turner may not have the world's greatest handles, but he's at least as good, probably better, than Batum. His AST/TOV ratio has been >2 while in BOS - better than Batum's both in POR and CHO. The difference is Turner will have one of Dame or C.J. to help bring the ball up the court. Nic, especially in his last year in POR, often found himself paired with the likes of Wes Matthews/Aaron Affalo or Alan Crabbe to "help" with ball handling duties when Dame was on the bench. When it comes to ball handling all of those guys suck, limited to one, maybe two dribbles tops. With C.J.'s emergence last year, Turner won't have to be the Lone Ranger regarding ball handling duties when Dame sits. And when C.J. sits, Dame will come back into the game. It really is an ideal situation. He will get to maximize his strengths while his weaknesses can be covered by his teammates.

BNM

 

[BonesJones]

Stupid trade idea. We don't need a short-armed T-Rex Center. Trade doesn't work anyway.

Secondly, will BonesJones please please please stop suggesting that Evan Turner will be playing positions other than SF and b/u PG!!!!!! That's where he will play. You keep ignoring his history. Please stop! He's not going to be playing b/u minutes at SG (that'll be Crabbe) nor b/u PF (that'll be Vonleh and Leonard and Davis). It WILL be b/u PG and some starting SF.

Where did I suggest he'll play SG? And even then positions are interchangeable and irrelevant with the players we have. If a lineup of Lillard/Turner/Crabbe takes the court does it really matter which one of Turner or Crabbe is labeled as the 3?

 

[MickZagger]

I'd do that trade in a hot second.

 

[riverman]

I'd do that trade in a hot second.

which trade?

 

[MickZagger]

which trade?

For the Klynyk Olynyk.

 

[riverman]

For the Klynyk Olynyk.

My Meyers idea or the other one? I'd trade Meyers in a heartbeat for Olynyk