OT ACAB All Cops Are Bastards (yes EVERY one)

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crandc said:
Not quite. Crimes are judged differently when committed by poor or rich. Sell Oxy on the street, long prison term. Purdue pharma made billions on Oxy knowing it was addictive and lying. Where are prison terms? Under three strikes laws people are serving life sentences for petty theft. Trump University and Trump foundation ripped off millions and Trump has cheated employees, contractors, and taxes. Anyone think he'll see the inside of a prison? Pro Publica just ran a story of a Tennessee county where Black children as young as 7 were locked up for something that isn't a crime, watching a couple of young kids have a minor fight. The county has one juvenile judge, who said locking up these children, who were literally dragged out of elementary school in handcuffs, is god's work. Does that happen in rich counties?
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I didn't say all crimes. I said most crimes, because most crimes are committed by those who are impoverished out of desperation or powerlessness.

That's not to say Rich people don't commit crimes. They do, and often times some terrible ones. And yes, I agree the rich get treated different in the ways they are tried and punished.

A big problem with sentencing is private prisons that pay judges to keep them filled. There are disproportionate sentences for crimes.
 
Orion Bailey said:
i don't see anything in his post claiming someone did?

however some suggestions are in line with socialist ideals.
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Not that I've seen... Every suggestion I've seen has been implemented far more, and more successfully, in capitalism based economies than socialist based.
 
Hoopguru said:
I know who they are. Just as there are some radicle progressives that are for open borders, anti police, pro big government with lots of bureaucratic inefficiencies that don’t promote business and competition. Im an independent that would like a balance. Im an old hippie that has seen the negatives of both major parties especially when they lean extreme.
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What do you mean by "open borders" and "anti police"?

Is a government which prevents racist actions among employers too big? Doesn't that kind of policy encourage competition?

I guess I just don't understand what you mean by most of this post, so I don't actually know where you stand.

I also don't like either party but I don't know any politicians who are actually opposed to police or are for undocumented travel into or out of the country.
 
Phatguysrule said:
What do you mean by "open borders" and "anti police"?

Is a government which prevents racist actions among employers too big? Doesn't that kind of policy encourage competition?

I guess I just don't understand what you mean by most of this post, so I don't actually know where you stand.

I also don't like either party but I don't know any politicians who are actually opposed to police or are for undocumented travel into or out of the country.
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https://www.wweek.com/news/city/202...olice-leak-of-a-false-allegation-against-her/

https://www.kptv.com/lyft-driver-re...deo_e4d3c20b-c9ba-5c03-a3da-9bb936168c0f.html
 
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Phatguysrule said:
I am also opposed to the release of false allegations about anybody by law enforcement, especially in what seems to be an effort to smear political adversaries.

Do you actually support false claims by law enforcement?
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nope. But she is anti police. Just posted a couple of the top links about her.
 
Orion Bailey said:
nope. But she is anti police. Just posted a couple of the top links about her.
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Thanks. But those links don't support the claim that she is anti police.

The first link is actually a great example of how the police need greater oversight.

She is opposed to some actions by some police and the lack of effort or effectiveness to reduce that kind of action.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Thanks. But those links don't support the claim that she is anti police.

The first link is actually a great example of how the police need greater oversight.

She is opposed to some actions by some police and the lack of effort or effectiveness to reduce that kind of action.
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i didn't say the links prove anything. Just brought her up.
She is anti police.
 
Phatguysrule said:
The Nordic countries are capitalism based economies.

We're coming up on 100 years since the Nordic Model gained popularity... How much time are you looking for?

They are among the happiest, healthiest, and best educated people in the world.
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if they are capitalism based then they arent socialists so they dont apply.
 
Orion Bailey said:
i didn't say the links prove anything. Just brought her up.
She is anti police.
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She's not anti police from anything I've seen. You've supplied no evidence which would suggest she is.

Thanks for sharing the links though.
 
Orion Bailey said:
if they are capitalism based then they arent socialists so they dont apply.
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Thanks! Nobody is suggesting socialism. The most drastic change anybody is suggesting here in the US is the Nordic Model. Which is a Social Democracy based on capitalism.

Which is exactly why bringing up socialism in any of these conversations is either lack of knowledge or pointless gaslighting.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Thanks! Nobody is suggesting socialism. The most drastic change anybody is suggesting here in the US is the Nordic Model. Which is a Social Democracy based on capitalism.

Which is exactly why bringing up socialism in any of these conversations is either lack of knowledge or pointless gaslighting.
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so im not sure your point? No one said anyone suggested socialism.

tlongs post didnt.

buuuut. There are many socialistic ideals being tossed around and things can easily evolve into full on socialism with how the current movement is going.

but your point that no one is advocating socialism is false. Some are. One must get past S2 to see it though. Even though its also evident here in some spots.

You read every post here. People have asked whats so bad about socialism.
 
@Phatguysrule

when people post “fuck the police” and “fuck the 12”…Are you trying to imply that isn't anti police? Cause thats been posted here many times and you read every post so…..

i would find any defense to that laughable.
 
Orion Bailey said:
@Phatguysrule

when people post “fuck the police” and “fuck the 12”…Are you trying to imply that isn't anti police? Cause thats been posted here many times and you read every post so…..

i would find any defense to that laughable.
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I said "fuck 'em" to the Blazers and Root not offering adequate coverage for fans. That doesn't mean I'm anti-blazer. On the contrary, they are my favorite team. However, I'm frustrated with some aspects of their business model.

You were also quite upset with them. Are you saying that you are "anti Blazers"?
 
Orion Bailey said:
so im not sure your point? No one said anyone suggested socialism.

tlongs post didnt.

buuuut. There are many socialistic ideals being tossed around and things can easily evolve into full on socialism with how the current movement is going.

but your point that no one is advocating socialism is false. Some are. One must get past S2 to see it though. Even though its also evident here in some spots.

You read every post here. People have asked whats so bad about socialism.
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Asking what is bad about something is not the same as advocating, or proposing something. Learning about something does not mean you support it. What prominent or serious political movement is advocating for socialism?

Tlongs post was the first mention of socialism. Everything else that has been discussed is a part of the Nordic Model, which has not devolved in to full on socialism, and shows no propensity to do so.

My point is to keep us on topic rather than talking about something nobody involved in the conversation is advocating for.
 
tlongII said:
https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2019/12/6/the-dark-side-of-the-nordic-model
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The dark side of the Nordic model

Scandinavians have it all. Universal public healthcare and education that is the envy of the world. Reasonable working hours with plenty of paid vacation. They have some of the highest levels of happiness on the planet, and top virtually every ranking of human development.

The Nordic model stands as a clear and compelling contrast to the neoliberal ideology that has strafed the rest of the industrialised world with inequality, ill health and needless poverty. As an antidote to the most destructive aspects of free-market capitalism, the egalitarian social democracies of Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Finland and Iceland inspire progressive movements around the world.

These countries are worth celebrating for all they get right. But there is a problem. They are an ecological disaster.

You might not notice it at first glance. Their air is crisp and fresh. Their parks are free of litter. Waste collection works like a charm. Much of the region is covered in forests. And Scandinavians tend to be environmentally conscientious.

But the data tell a different story. The Nordic countries have some of the highest levels of resource use and CO2 emissions in the world, in consumption-based terms, drastically overshooting safe planetary boundaries.

Ecologists say that a sustainable level of resource use is about 7 tonnes of material stuff per person per year. Scandinavians consume on average more than 32 tonnes per year. That is four and a half times over the sustainable level, similar to the United States, driven by overconsumption of everything from meat to cars to plastic.

As for emissions, the Nordic countries perform worse than the rest of Europe, and only marginally better than the world’s most egregious offenders – the US, Australia, Canada, Saudi Arabia. Yes, they generate more renewable energy than most countries, but these gains are wiped out by carbon-intensive imports.

This is why the Nordic countries fall toward the very bottom of the Sustainable Development Index. We think of these nations as progressive, but in fact, their performance has worsened over time. Sweden, for example, has gone from 0.755 on the index in the 1990s down to 0.328 today, plunging from the top seven to number 143.

For decades we have been told that nations should aspire to develop towards the Nordic countries. But in an era of ecological breakdown, this no longer makes sense. If everyone in the world consumed like Scandinavians, we would need nearly five Earths to sustain us.

This kind of overconsumption is driving a global crisis of habitat destruction, species extinction and climate change. You will not see much evidence of this in Norway or Finland, but that is because, as with most rich nations, the bulk of their ecological impact has been outsourced to the global South. That is where most of the resource extraction happens, and where global warming bites hardest. The violence hits elsewhere.

Of course, Scandinavia is not alone in this. Many high-income countries pose just as much of a problem. But as we wake up to the realities of ecological breakdown, it becomes clear that the Nordic countries no longer offer the promise that we once thought they did.


It is time to update the Nordic model for the Anthropocene. Nordic countries have it right when it comes to public healthcare, education and progressive social democracy, but they need to dramatically reduce their consumption if they are to stand as a beacon for the rest of the world in the 21st century.

The good news is that the high levels of welfare for which Nordic countries are famous do not require high levels of consumption. Happiness in Costa Rica rivals Scandinavia with 60 percent less resource use. Italians live longer lives with half the resource use. Germany has higher education levels with 30 percent less resource use. Of course, wintry climates require slightly more materials, but there is still much room for improvement.

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2019/12/6/the-dark-side-of-the-nordic-model
 
SlyPokerDog said:
The dark side of the Nordic model

Scandinavians have it all. Universal public healthcare and education that is the envy of the world. Reasonable working hours with plenty of paid vacation. They have some of the highest levels of happiness on the planet, and top virtually every ranking of human development.

The Nordic model stands as a clear and compelling contrast to the neoliberal ideology that has strafed the rest of the industrialised world with inequality, ill health and needless poverty. As an antidote to the most destructive aspects of free-market capitalism, the egalitarian social democracies of Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Finland and Iceland inspire progressive movements around the world.

These countries are worth celebrating for all they get right. But there is a problem. They are an ecological disaster.

You might not notice it at first glance. Their air is crisp and fresh. Their parks are free of litter. Waste collection works like a charm. Much of the region is covered in forests. And Scandinavians tend to be environmentally conscientious.

But the data tell a different story. The Nordic countries have some of the highest levels of resource use and CO2 emissions in the world, in consumption-based terms, drastically overshooting safe planetary boundaries.

Ecologists say that a sustainable level of resource use is about 7 tonnes of material stuff per person per year. Scandinavians consume on average more than 32 tonnes per year. That is four and a half times over the sustainable level, similar to the United States, driven by overconsumption of everything from meat to cars to plastic.

As for emissions, the Nordic countries perform worse than the rest of Europe, and only marginally better than the world’s most egregious offenders – the US, Australia, Canada, Saudi Arabia. Yes, they generate more renewable energy than most countries, but these gains are wiped out by carbon-intensive imports.

This is why the Nordic countries fall toward the very bottom of the Sustainable Development Index. We think of these nations as progressive, but in fact, their performance has worsened over time. Sweden, for example, has gone from 0.755 on the index in the 1990s down to 0.328 today, plunging from the top seven to number 143.

For decades we have been told that nations should aspire to develop towards the Nordic countries. But in an era of ecological breakdown, this no longer makes sense. If everyone in the world consumed like Scandinavians, we would need nearly five Earths to sustain us.

This kind of overconsumption is driving a global crisis of habitat destruction, species extinction and climate change. You will not see much evidence of this in Norway or Finland, but that is because, as with most rich nations, the bulk of their ecological impact has been outsourced to the global South. That is where most of the resource extraction happens, and where global warming bites hardest. The violence hits elsewhere.

Of course, Scandinavia is not alone in this. Many high-income countries pose just as much of a problem. But as we wake up to the realities of ecological breakdown, it becomes clear that the Nordic countries no longer offer the promise that we once thought they did.


It is time to update the Nordic model for the Anthropocene. Nordic countries have it right when it comes to public healthcare, education and progressive social democracy, but they need to dramatically reduce their consumption if they are to stand as a beacon for the rest of the world in the 21st century.

The good news is that the high levels of welfare for which Nordic countries are famous do not require high levels of consumption. Happiness in Costa Rica rivals Scandinavia with 60 percent less resource use. Italians live longer lives with half the resource use. Germany has higher education levels with 30 percent less resource use. Of course, wintry climates require slightly more materials, but there is still much room for improvement.

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2019/12/6/the-dark-side-of-the-nordic-model
Click to expand...

So the dark side of social democracies is that they're too good at capitalism and consumerism?
 
Phatguysrule said:
What do you mean by "open borders" and "anti police"?

Is a government which prevents racist actions among employers too big? Doesn't that kind of policy encourage competition?

I guess I just don't understand what you mean by most of this post, so I don't actually know where you stand.

I also don't like either party but I don't know any politicians who are actually opposed to police or are for undocumented travel into or out of the country.
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What I meant about open borders is that congress for many years has refused to step up and get control/reform immigrations. My family is made up of immigrants and Ive always been pro immigration, back in the 60's I had migrant workers traveling through to work fields as guest in my home each year they made the journey. We have always been a country that allows legal immigration, just need a bi partisan effort to better govern in this day.

Im for law enforcement but it needs reform and cleaned up, along with crooked politicians.

Im all for anti racist measures at all levels. And government should always play a role in this.
I'm a mixed enterprise guy meaning both government and business/competition. I have a hard time with the libertarian belief that the gov should not play a role in commerce. Again I want a balance with this.

I guess im like the hub on a bike wheel where I take something from all quadrants of the wheel.
 
Hoopguru said:
What I meant about open borders is that congress for many years has refused to step up and get control/reform immigrations. My family is made up of immigrants and Ive always been pro immigration, back in the 60's I had migrant workers traveling through to work fields as guest in my home each year they made the journey. We have always been a country that allows legal immigration, just need a bi partisan effort to better govern in this day.

Im for law enforcement but it needs reform and cleaned up, along with crooked politicians.

Im all for anti racist measures at all levels. And government should always play a role in this.
I'm a mixed enterprise guy meaning both government and business/competition. I have a hard time with the libertarian belief that the gov should not play a role in commerce. Again I want a balance with this.

I guess im like the hub on a bike wheel where I take something from all quadrants of the wheel.
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Your views sound incredibly similar to my own then. Thanks!
 
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