OT ACAB All Cops Are Bastards (yes EVERY one)

[SharpeScooterShooter]

So "all cops are not bastards".

It is of my opinion that is absolutely correct.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

No, I think it's more of a case of "better the devil you know than the devil you don't know"...and sadly, that seems to be precisely the mindset many voters have.

ahh i understand now. Yeah fear is a damning thing. Causes hesitation, poor choices etc.
i would remind those, that those who over come their fears tend to be much more successful than those who let their fears drive thier decision making.
Easier said than done i know.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

@yankeesince59 and @BlazerBender

Now Bender knows this but I'm not sure you do yankee, the person who made this thread is black. His personal experiences and those of his family and community give him a very different perspective than those who are white. Before we jump down that rabbit hole let me give you a different example.

"ALL CATHOLIC PRIESTS ARE BAD, YES EVERY ONE!"

Now I was raised catholic and knew who I thought were some very good priests. My personal experience doesn't support that all priests are bad. I could give examples of priests doing great things, kind things, things so exemplary that the priest was named a saint. But...

We've seen the stories, there are priests that were straight-up sexual predators. Moving from parish to parish molesting children. Other priests not only forgave them via confession but also hid these crimes, not telling the parishioners they were there to protect and guide. Some of these priests did hurt children for over 40 years and were never turned in. Parents and the victims themselves went to what they thought were good priests to report this and the only thing that happened was the "bad" priest was moved to a different parish, city, or state.

If you or a family member were a victim of one of these priests you would feel that all priests were bad because they were all complicit in hiding these vile crimes.

And if when these crimes finally became public the priests start putting up flags, and patches, and even tattoos of the Thin Priest Line. A statement that it's them against the people they're supposed to serve.

To some, they would strongly believe that all priests are bad.

...

While not all cops do bad things, they've seen other cops do such things and stay silent. Or try to bully or prevent other cops from reporting bad things.

@BlazerBender go to the Clackamas Sheriff's Department and the Camby Police Department and ask for a complaint form. Something simple that every citizen should be allowed to ask for without justifying or giving ID to get. Then grab Dviss and have him do the same. The odds are your experiences will be different. And that's part of the problem and why certain people believe All Cops Are Bad while others are confused by that.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

@yankeesince59 and @BlazerBender

Now Bender knows this but I'm not sure you do yankee, the person who made this thread is black. His personal experiences and those of his family and community give him a very different perspective than those who are white. Before we jump down that rabbit hole let me give you a different example.

"ALL CATHOLIC PRIESTS ARE BAD, YES EVERY ONE!"

Now I was raised catholic and knew who I thought were some very good priests. My personal experience doesn't support that. I could give examples of priests doing great things, kind things, things so exemplary that the priest was named a saint. But...

We've seen the stories, there are priests that were straight-up sexual predators. Moving from parish to parish molesting children. Other priests not only forgave them via confession but also hid these crimes, not telling the parishioners they were there to protect and guide. Some of these priests did hurt children for over 40 years and were never turned in. Parents and the victims themselves went to what they thought were good priests to report this and the only thing that happened was the "bad" priest was moved to a different parish, city, or state.

If you or a family member were a victim of one of these priests you would feel that all priests were bad because they were all complicit in hiding these vile crimes.

And then when these crimes finally became public the priests start putting up flags, and patches, and even tattoos of the Thin Priest Line. A statement that it's them against the people they're supposed to serve.

To some, they would strongly believe that all priests are bad.

...

While not all cops do bad things, they've seen other cops do such things and stay silent. Or try to bully or prevent other cops from reporting bad things.

@BlazerBender go to the Clackamas Sheriff's Department and the Camby Police Department and ask for a complaint form. Something simple that every citizen should be allowed to ask for without justifying or giving ID to get. Then grab Dviss and have him do the same. The odds are your experiences will be different. And that's part of the problem and why certain people believe All Cops Are Bad while others are confused by that.

Oh i don't deny this at all. I believe you are 100% correct.
The only difference of opinion i have and this is through direct conversations with a wash.county sherrif, is that some good cops believe going against the grain currently, will do nothing but force them to find a new field of work. They became a cop to try to help the public and some weigh the impact both choices would have.
Go against the grain, likely lose the job, and not be able to help individuals anymore.
Or stay the course of making sure the good cops continue doing good things until the decision makers above are replaced with those who will not tolerate such racism, prejudice, aggression first, type of behaviors from their coworkers.

I believe a mass push claiming all cops are bad actually stems the drive of good cops wanting to separate themselves.
I think that if the public stopped this universal label, then maybe good cops would feel more support and want to stand up against bad cops more. But as long as they are lumped in with the bad ones, they feel like they are in a no win situation themselves.
Just like everything in life, if we generalize and label all as one, fringes wil push back. Certain sects will feel isolated and disrespected.

This is not a simple problem to fix. And it will not happen overnight.
What i don't understand is why don't more people put more effort into weeding out the good cops and getting them to join the good side?
Honey vs vinegar.

Instead of “you are a bastard you are with them,”

why not, “you are with us, how can we work together to remove all the bad ones and replace them with ones more like you? Lets join forces and fight this corruption you swore an Oath to fight?”


I do not trivialize, minimize or try to diminish anything Dviss does, believes or feels. We both want the same thing, we just disagree with some of the turns on the path that should be taken to reach a like goal. With that said, i still support and respect his path, because you aRe correct…. I have not lived in his shoes.

You should give my cd a listen, specifically the last track where its Bout 12 minutes of dviss talking to the front line officers during the peak of the protests. He discusses Vanport oregon among other things. I never would have had that on my cd if i didn't support Dviss aNd his path, even if i question it being the 100% correct path( labeling all cops as bad to instigate a complete removal/replacement).
But he knows this and i have said my peace to him on this. The only thing left is to provide support for what i believe is overall the right thing, which is massive overhaul of the system, starting with hiring/training styles to complete restructuring of how to respond to different situations out on the streets.

 

[yankeesince59]

@yankeesince59 and @BlazerBender

Now Bender knows this but I'm not sure you do yankee, the person who made this thread is black. His personal experiences and those of his family and community give him a very different perspective than those who are white. Before we jump down that rabbit hole let me give you a different example.

"ALL CATHOLIC PRIESTS ARE BAD, YES EVERY ONE!"

Now I was raised catholic and knew who I thought were some very good priests. My personal experience doesn't support that all priests are bad. I could give examples of priests doing great things, kind things, things so exemplary that the priest was named a saint. But...

We've seen the stories, there are priests that were straight-up sexual predators. Moving from parish to parish molesting children. Other priests not only forgave them via confession but also hid these crimes, not telling the parishioners they were there to protect and guide. Some of these priests did hurt children for over 40 years and were never turned in. Parents and the victims themselves went to what they thought were good priests to report this and the only thing that happened was the "bad" priest was moved to a different parish, city, or state.

If you or a family member were a victim of one of these priests you would feel that all priests were bad because they were all complicit in hiding these vile crimes.

And then when these crimes finally became public the priests start putting up flags, and patches, and even tattoos of the Thin Priest Line. A statement that it's them against the people they're supposed to serve.

To some, they would strongly believe that all priests are bad.

...

While not all cops do bad things, they've seen other cops do such things and stay silent. Or try to bully or prevent other cops from reporting bad things.

@BlazerBender go to the Clackamas Sheriff's Department and the Camby Police Department and ask for a complaint form. Something simple that every citizen should be allowed to ask for without justifying or giving ID to get. Then grab Dviss and have him do the same. The odds are your experiences will be different. And that's part of the problem and why certain people believe All Cops Are Bad while others are confused by that.

I understand Sly...I suppose that it's the title that I have the most problem with...if it wasn't to be taken literally by some, IMO, it should have been worded differently.

My point is not to lump a small portion of unsavory people in with the whole group, and for me, that's "literally" what the title does......"one bad apple...."...just my 2 cents.

 

[yankeesince59]

Oh i don't deny this at all. I believe you are 100% correct.
The only difference of opinion i have and this is through direct conversations with a wash.county sherrif, is that some good cops believe going against the grain currently, will do nothing but force them to find a new field of work. They became a cop to try to help the public and some weigh the impact both choices would have.
Go against the grain, likely lose the job, and not be able to help individuals anymore.
Or stay the course of making sure the good cops continue doing good things until the decision makers above are replaced with those who will not tolerate such racism, prejudice, aggression first, type of behaviors from their coworkers.

I believe a mass push claiming all cops are bad actually stems the drive of good cops wanting to separate themselves.
I think that if the public stopped this universal label, then maybe good cops would feel more support and want to stand up against bad cops more. But as long as they are lumped in with the bad ones, they feel like they are in a no win situation themselves.
Just like everything in life, if we generalize and label all as one, fringes wil push back. Certain sects will feel isolated and disrespected.

This is not a simple problem to fix. And it will not happen overnight.
What i don't understand is why don't more people put more effort into weeding out the good cops and getting them to join the good side?
Honey vs vinegar.

Instead of “you are a bastard you are with them,”

why not, “you are with us, how can we work together to remove all the bad ones and replace them with ones more like you? Lets join forces and fight this corruption you swore an Oath to fight?”


I do not trivialize, minimize or try to diminish anything Dviss does, believes or feels. We both want the same thing, we just disagree with some of the turns on the path that should be taken to reach a like goal. With that said, i still support and respect his path, because you aRe correct…. I have not lived in his shoes.

You should give my cd a listen, specifically the last track where its Bout 12 minutes of dviss talking to the front line officers during the peak of the protests. He discusses Vanport oregon among other things. I never would have had that on my cd if i didn't support Dviss aNd his path, even if i question it being the 100% correct path( labeling all cops as bad to instigate a complete removal/replacement).
But he knows this and i have said my peace to him on this. The only thing left is to provide support for what i believe is overall the right thing, which is massive overhaul of the system, starting with hiring/training styles to complete restructuring of how to respond to different situations out on the streets.

Well articulated...VERY well articulated.

 

[THE HCP]

I understand Sly...I suppose that it's the title that I have the most problem with...if it wasn't to be taken literally by some, IMO, it should have been worded differently.

My point is not to lump a small portion of unsavory people in with the whole group, and for me, that's "literally" what the title does......"one bad apple...."...just my 2 cents.

Of course they aren't "ALL". Nothing is "ALL".
Let my man who created this thread vent. This thread should have been long gone by now.

 

[yankeesince59]

Of course they aren't "ALL". Nothing is "ALL".
Let my man who created this thread vent. This thread should have been long gone by now.

Well, that's not at all what the title says and that's what's being discussed right now. The OP not only said "all", he even doubled down by adding "(yes, EVERY one").

..If he's allowed to vent, so should others with different views.

 

[RR7]

Instead of “you are a bastard you are with them,”

why not, “you are with us, how can we work together to remove all the bad ones and replace them with ones more like you? Lets join forces and fight this corruption you swore an Oath to fight?”

How many times and years should people have to attempt to get the "good ones" to join their side and have it not happen before they realize it isn't going to happen and say well, we've made reports, we've caught you on camera, we've filed complaints and nothing happens! You say they're good ones but from your own words, if they go against them, they can't keep their jobs. So they weigh the choice and decide...it's better to let corruption continue instead of a mass, mass walkout of police to fight corruption? Theyre not toppling the leadership from within. They're not going to outlive and outlast that corruption. They're complicit in it by standing by and thinking their steadfast desire to serve and protect is more important than ACTUALLY serving and protecting citizens by calling out all of the bullshit that happens.
And I think it says a lot about the cops you mention where, if you say all cops are bad, instead of wanting to stand out as not that, and fight against it, you make it sound like that causes them to close ranks and circle back with their brothers.
Similar to Sly's reference to priests. If I'm in a profession where people call us pedophiles, I'm not going to stand with the pedophiles and be like gosh, these guys are mean to us. I'm gonna be like yeah, they are. Fuck those guys. Get them out of here.
If I'm a legit good cop, there to serve and protect, it would piss me off to no end that there's the amount of corruption and bullshit that there is. And if there were so many good cops speaking up, and ALL of them kept getting fired for it, something would change. But they don't. And it doesn't. And it sounds like you're saying that them keeping their jobs and attempting to "fight from within"(they're not) is better than actually standing up for what's right.

 

[RR7]

I understand Sly...I suppose that it's the title that I have the most problem with...if it wasn't to be taken literally by some, IMO, it should have been worded differently.

My point is not to lump a small portion of unsavory people in with the whole group, and for me, that's "literally" what the title does......"one bad apple...."...just my 2 cents.

If a small portion of unsavory people is backed up by a large portion of savory? people who don't stop the unsavory people, and often cover up for the unsavory people, then aren't they all basically the same?

 

[yankeesince59]

If a small portion of unsavory people is backed up by a large portion of savory? people who don't stop the unsavory people, and often cover up for the unsavory people, then aren't they all basically the same?

No, because the good cops are too busy doing their freaking job instead of being whistle blowers, they can't be everywhere at once...and ratting on fellow cops probably would not be looked upon with favor from other cops. I would imagine that monitoring cops' activity would be the responsibility of their superiors, as it is with most organizations. Even if a "good cop" does bring to the attention of their superiors that another cop is not doing things right, it should be up to management and/or union to investigate and/or take action, and not the regular cops who don't have the authority to discipline other cops.

Because of the attention "bad cops" have received recently, even the police unions have changed their stance on "policing" their own police. But it's certainly not gonna be a quick fix to improve law enforcement. It took us a long time to get where we're at.

 

[Phatguysrule]

No, because the good cops are too busy doing their freaking job instead of being whistle blowers, they can't be everywhere at once...and ratting on fellow cops probably would not be looked upon with favor from other cops. I would imagine that monitoring cops' activity would be the responsibility of their superiors, as it is with most organizations. Even if a "good cop" does bring to the attention of their superiors that another cop is not doing things right, it should be up to management and/or union to investigate and/or take action, and not the regular cops who don't have the authority to discipline other cops.

Because of the attention "bad cops" have received recently, even the police unions have changed their stance on "policing" their own police. But it's certainly not gonna be a quick fix to improve law enforcement. It took us a long time to get where we're at.

Then there aren't enough good cops to matter and we need to see radical change.

The blueprints of how to do this are available. We just need to get it done.

 

[yankeesince59]

Right. The number of good cops and bad cops has already been determined with scientific accuracy.

SSDD

 

[Phatguysrule]

Right. The number of good cops and bad cops has already been determined with scientific accuracy.

SSDD

There are either enough good cops to fix it (you have to want it fixed to be a good cop, IMO), in which case, it would be fixed by now, or there are not enough good cops to fix it and we need to follow the blueprints that have already proven they are far superior than allowing the same failed system to continue.

We are either okay with allowing our police and judicial systems to cause unnecessary harm to the population or we fix it.

At this point there is plenty of evidence. Everyone in power should be aware of these options and the available solutions and be doing their part to enact them, or they are unfit to hold their position due to corruption or ignorance.

 

[THE HCP]

Well, that's not at all what the title says and that's what's being discussed right now. The OP not only said "all", he even doubled down by adding "(yes, EVERY one").

..If he's allowed to vent, so should others with different views.

You are one of THOSE aren’t you? Why do you care bro? I WAS a fucking cop and this doesn’t offend me. Why does it offend you?

 

[yankeesince59]

One more time...good cops, the everyday cops who are out there in the cesspool of some of our society, don't have the authority to discipline other cops acting badly, so all they can do if they are brave enough, is to report them to their superiors.

Considering good cops who were considered as "rats" for doing this by most of their peers, have ruined their careers and even killed for doing so, I for one can understand their apprehension.... If we want to make change, we need to start at the top, not the bottom.

 

[yankeesince59]

You are one of THOSE aren’t you? Why do you care bro? I WAS a fucking cop and this doesn’t offend me. Why does it offend you?

uhhh wut?...am I one of what?...you don't know dick about me, so don't presume otherwise. If you are not "offended", does that by default mean you were a good cop or a bad cop?

 

[yankeesince59]

You’re one of those who like to come on a forum and stir shit up. Go away bro. This type of stuff doesn’t need to be stirred up again. Since you asked, trust me when I tell you , I was a “bad cop.”

I believe you.

And I'll post what I want, when I want...don't like it?.......call a cop. (a good one)

 

[yankeesince59]

I’ve got loads of details if you want me to share on here.

Do as you wish...as will I.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Do as you wish...as will I.

Wow! I didn't know you were a former police officer. Have you mentioned that before and I just missed it? Now I understand you're opposition to this thread.

I think you can add some important perspectives to this discussion.

So what do you think of the auditing movement? You watch any of the videos?

 

[yankeesince59]

Wow! I didn't know you were a former police officer. Have you mentioned that before and I just missed it? Now I understand you're opposition to this thread.

I think you can add some important perspectives to this discussion.

So what do you think of the auditing movement? You watch any of the videos?

WTF, Sly?...when the hell did I say or imply that I was a police officer?...are you saying I have to be a police officer to have a perspective or opinion this topic ?...what about the 859 posts from others before this one?...were they all cops?

 

[Phatguysrule]

One more time...good cops, the everyday cops who are out there in the cesspool of some of our society, don't have the authority to discipline other cops acting badly, so all they can do if they are brave enough, is to report them to their superiors.

Considering good cops who were considered as "rats" for doing this by most of their peers, have ruined their careers and even killed for doing so, I for one can understand their apprehension.... If we want to make change, we need to start at the top, not the bottom.

That's the point. It's too broken to fix. It needs replaced.

 

[yankeesince59]

Ahhh..."the grand design".

 

[Phatguysrule]

Ahhh..."the grand design".

The "Proven Design". It works better everywhere it's been tried.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

WTF, Sly?...when the hell did I say or imply that I was a police officer?...are you saying I have to be a police officer to have a perspective or opinion this topic ?...what about the 859 posts from others before this one?...were they all cops?

Sorry, I thought I read you were, while skimming threads. My apologies if I misread a post.

Edit: I just went back and reread posts, it was HCP who said he used to be a cop.

 

[Phatguysrule]

I just went back and reread posts, it was HCP who said he used to be a cop.

Which is also cool, and I didn't know.

 

[Shaboid]

In a previous life, I patrolled the bustling city streets as a dedicated police officer named Mark. With a strong sense of duty and a compassionate heart, I navigated the labyrinth of alleys and avenues, always ready to ensure the safety of the community.

One crisp autumn evening, a call crackled through the radio about a missing child. My heart raced as I joined the search, combing through neighborhoods and parks, driven by a determination to reunite the family. Hours turned into a tense night, but finally, a soft cry led me to a small figure huddled behind a tree. The child's tearful eyes met mine, and in that moment, all the challenges of the job faded away.

Over time, I built trust and connections with the people I served. I found myself mediating disputes, comforting victims, and mentoring troubled youths. One particular teenager, Jake, caught my attention. Instead of resorting to punishment, I took the time to listen and understand his struggles. Slowly, he began to open up, and we worked together to redirect his life toward a brighter path.

As the years passed, the city changed, and so did I. I learned that true strength as an officer lay not just in enforcing laws, but in building bridges, fostering empathy, and being a beacon of hope. And in that previous life as Mark, I realized that the impact I left on the lives I touched was the greatest reward of all.

Bad Cop!

 

[yankeesince59]

Sorry, I thought I read you were, while skimming threads. My apologies if I misread a post.

Edit: I just went back and reread posts, it was HCP who said he used to be a cop.

NO problem Sly...I've misread quite a few posts before, myself.

 

[yankeesince59]

The proven design showed reduction in some types of crime in Camden but not some others.

 

[Phatguysrule]

The proven design showed reduction in some types of crime in Camden but not some others.

Source please?

CCPD Building on 10 Years of Progress in the City

Since the first days of the department’s operation, overall crime and violent crime have both been reduced to 50-year lows. At the end of last year, violent crime had been reduced by 44% and homicides had come down approximately 60% from the previous 10 years. Additionally, the city has seen a 62% decrease in shootings since 2012, the last full year of operation for the Camden City Police Department.