Accountability

[oldfisherman]

For three decades, owner Paul Allen set professional standards for accountability within the entire Blazers organization.

He made his GMs sell him on any changes, all the way down to holding private meetings with top players. He gave everyone a long leash, but he had control over the leash.

My hunch is. The system of accountability has changed since Mr. Allen's passing. I am not sure who, if anyone is holding the accountability leash now. Which could mean lower than expected results for years.

Since Mr. Allen's passing a little over one year ago. There have been many decisions made. Starting with Stotts contract extension, and then a ton of off season moves.

I bring up the Stotts extension for a reason. I believe there was a report that Mr Allen refused to extend Stotts contract after the bad loss to the Pelicans in the first round of the 2018 playoffs. Obviously Mr. Allen had doubts about Stotts back then. But Olshey extended Stotts after Mr. Allen's passing.

Just one example of the change in accountabilty that has taken place over the last year.

If I am wrong about any of this, let me know. Most of this is my opinion and gut talking. But sadly, I believe the worst is yet come. Hope I am wrong.

 

[Labinot41]

The thing is, we have no idea how much jody allen pays attention to the Blazers, while she owns the Seahawks and has probably 100000 other things to do. She probably is not involved in the day to day operation.

 

[oldfisherman]

The thing is, we have no idea how much jody allen pays attention to the Blazers, while she owns the Seahawks and has probably 100000 other things to do. She probably is not involved in the day to day operation.

I have no idea how involved Jody is with the Blazers.

Does anyone here know if she is, or which of her staff is responsible for running this ship?

As of today, "IF" this ship has a rudder, it is broken and needs fixing. The entire crew, down to the players on the court, are out of control.

 

[Neil O. Shyster]

I fear there is no one to hold Neil accountable... he has his guys and they are all getting paid, and fans keep buying tickets... so why would anything change

 

[illmatic99]

For three decades, owner Paul Allen set professional standards for accountability within the entire Blazers organization.

He made his GMs sell him on any changes, all the way down to holding private meetings with top players. He gave everyone a long leash, but he had control over the leash.

My hunch is. The system of accountability has changed since Mr. Allen's passing. I am not sure who, if anyone is holding the accountability leash now. Which could mean lower than expected results for years.

Since Mr. Allen's passing a little over one year ago. There have been many decisions made. Starting with Stotts contract extension, and then a ton of off season moves.

I bring up the Stotts extension for a reason. I believe there was a report that Mr Allen refused to extend Stotts contract after the bad loss to the Pelicans in the first round of the 2018 playoffs. Obviously Mr. Allen had doubts about Stotts back then. But Olshey extended Stotts after Mr. Allen's passing.

Just one example of the change in accountabilty that has taken place over the last year.

If I am wrong about any of this, let me know. Most of this is my opinion and gut talking. But sadly, I believe the worst is yet come. Hope I am wrong.

What would you rather Neil have done this summer?

 

[PtldPlatypus]

What would you rather Neil have done this summer?

Keep Jake instead of signing Hezonja/Tolliver, for one. Probably wouldn't have extended CJ either.

 

[illmatic99]

Keep Jake instead of signing Hezonja/Tolliver, for one.

I agree with that one and said as much when it happened. But it's really minor in the grand scheme of things. Having Layman here would do little to affect our current record.

But:

1. Hood/Collins were supposed to be the Harkless/Aminu replacements. Not Baze/Melo. We all watched who played in the playoffs and who had the most success.

2. Whiteside was supposed to be the Kanter replacement. Another decent move in a vacuum.

3. Ant was supposed to be the Curry replacement. Fine.

4. Baze was supposed to replace Turner. Also fine.

 

[Neil O. Shyster]

At the end of the day, it was Neil and the players that set championship expectations for this season... not the fans. Nurk injury was a known at that time, Zach was averaging 9 points and 4 rebounds when he went down, we were 8-12 when Hood went down, then we added Melo who is averaging 7 points more than Zach. And Neil thinks the fans are stupid and he is using injury excuse to buy another year and hold nobody accountable.

 

[illmatic99]

At the end of the day, it was Neil and the players that set championship expectations for this season... not the fans. Nurk injury was a known at that time, Zach was averaging 9 points and 4 rebounds when he went down, we were 8-12 when Hood went down, then we added Melo who is averaging 7 points more than Zach. And Neil thinks the fans are stupid and he is using injury excuse to buy another year and hold nobody accountable.

Zach's stats don't mean a damn thing. He played in 2 games. And he was unquestionably the best defender on the team to start this season and a massive loss given the rest of the roster construction.

 

[Orion Bailey]

At the end of the day, it was Neil and the players that set championship expectations for this season... not the fans. Nurk injury was a known at that time, Zach was averaging 9 points and 4 rebounds when he went down, we were 8-12 when Hood went down, then we added Melo who is averaging 7 points more than Zach. And Neil thinks the fans are stupid and he is using injury excuse to buy another year and hold nobody accountable.

Okay so what would you have had him say instead? Sorry Portland, we will not be competing next year for a title, so it will be a year of mediocrity. Please sit and be patient for the next season?



First that would be pure lunacy (ticket sales, etc). Secondly, Every team goes into the next season expecting to compete and hope to chase a ring. EVERY TEAM. This is the pros man...

Sigh... do you ever come up with answers to your complaints? If not, you should try.

 

[Neil O. Shyster]

Okay so what would you have had him say instead? Sorry Portland, we will not be competing next year for a title, so it will be a year of mediocrity. Please sit and be patient for the next season?



First that would be pure lunacy (ticket sales, etc). Secondly, Every time goes into the next season expecting to compete and hope to chase a ring. EVERY TEAM. This is the pros man...

Sigh... do you ever come up with answers to your complaints? If not, you should try.

I’m not blaming him for having optimism and trying to sell tickets... I’m blaming him for not admitting when he fails, and not holding anyone accountable... and instead getting defensive and having disdain for the fans for wanting them held to a higher standard for a team with a league high $147 mil payroll.

 

[oldfisherman]

What would you rather Neil have done this summer?

The first thing to understand about Neil is, he does not have a plan, short or long term. He uses a strategy applied daily.

Case in point. In 2016, he overpaid several players because he could that day. He did not take into account how those bad contracts would affect future roster moves. We are still dealing with the problems his lack of planning caused.

Case two. Historically, counting draft picks, Neil has turned over about 1/3 (5) of the roster each off season. This number worked well to bring in talent to evaluate, without disrupting team chemistry.

Last off season, not counting Hourd, the number is 8 new players. Over half the roster is new, result, team chemistry is a mess.

I will let the experts here decide which moves he should not of made. I will just say he went too far again and made too many changes to the roster, like he went too far giving out bad contracts in 2016. Because Neil does not have a plan.

 

[calvin natt]

I agree with that one and said as much when it happened. But it's really minor in the grand scheme of things. Having Layman here would do little to affect our current record.

But:

1. Hood/Collins were supposed to be the Harkless/Aminu replacements. Not Baze/Melo. We all watched who played in the playoffs and who had the most success.

2. Whiteside was supposed to be the Kanter replacement. Another decent move in a vacuum.

3. Ant was supposed to be the Curry replacement. Fine.

4. Baze was supposed to replace Turner. Also fine.

yep

 

[illmatic99]

The first thing to understand about Neil is, he does not have a plan, short or long term. He uses a strategy applied daily.

Case in point. In 2016, he overpaid several players because he could that day. He did not take into account how those bad contracts would affect future roster moves. We are still dealing with the problems his lack of planning caused.

We got rid of all of the mistakes from 2016 pretty easily, having given up no assets to do so, unlike most of the other teams.

Case two. Historically, counting draft picks, Neil has turned over about 1/3 (5) of the roster each off season. This number worked well to bring in talent to evaluate, without disrupting team chemistry.

Last off season, not counting Hourd, the number is 8 new players. Over half the roster is new, result, team chemistry is a mess.

This is simply false. https://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/continuity.html

This was the first summer we had substantial turnover, and even now, 57% of the roster returned. The prior three years, we have been among the league leaders in roster continuity. Actually led the league in it in 2016 and 2017. And as you can also see from that chart, roster continuity has very little correlation with team success.

I will let the experts here decide which moves he should not of made. I will just say he went too far again and made too many changes to the roster, like he went too far giving out bad contracts in 2016. Because Neil does not have a plan.

It's easy to blame and I'm no Neil fanboy, but the moves he made this past summer have been largely defensible. You still haven't pointed out what you think he should have done instead.

 

[oldfisherman]

We got rid of all of the mistakes from 2016 pretty easily, having given up no assets to do so, unlike most of the other teams.



This is simply false. https://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/continuity.html

This was the first summer we had substantial turnover, and even now, 57% of the roster returned. The prior three years, we have been among the league leaders in roster continuity. Actually led the league in it in 2016 and 2017. And as you can also see from that chart, roster continuity has very little correlation with team success.


It's easy to blame and I'm no Neil fanboy, but the moves he made this past summer have been largely defensible. You still haven't pointed out what you think he should have done instead.

You need to read and understand the info in your link. The 57% you quote is minutes played, not roster spots.

And the 2016 bad contracts are still on our books, just different names attached to the $$$$.

 

[tlongII]

The biggest Neil made this offseason was expecting Pau Gasol to be ready. I think he was counting on him and that turned out to be a disaster.

 

[illmatic99]

Think there needs to be a distinction between team chemistry and roster continuity.

Chemistry can be developed pretty quickly if the coach and team leaders have the right mindset to get the most synergy out of all the players. The coach has to have a system that is amenable to his players' strengths. He also needs to hold his players accountable (as this thread suggests) to not make egregious mistakes. Hell, Look at the rag tag Knicks team that destroyed us last night. There are teams in the league with a lot more turnover than us, who play a lot more cohesively.

I think if anyone needs to be held accountable for not playing hard or right, it's the players + coach. We haven't changed our defense or offense in years and the league has caught up to us. And any semblance of adversity drives Dame/CJ/ (and now, Melo) into iso only mode with little effort on defense. Terry has yet to hold his players accountable in 8 yrs-- why would he start now?

 

[illmatic99]

You need to read and understand the info in your link. The 57% you quote is minutes played, not roster spots.

How are the two points any different?

And the 2016 bad contracts are still on our books, just different names attached to the $$$$.

And they're expiring this year. Look at how much LA gave up to get rid of Deng/Mozgov. Or any other 2016 extension that's been moved. We have every single one of our future assets intact.

 

[TBpup]

At this point, I'd take Coach Dale...

 

[CupWizier]

You need to read and understand the info in your link. The 57% you quote is minutes played, not roster spots.

And the 2016 bad contracts are still on our books, just different names attached to the $$$$.

what you also fail to address is how involved Paul Allen may have likely been in the contracts that were doled out in 2016. You easily point the finger but have no proof one way or the other as to where and if any blame should be associated. It's been known from the past that PA got attached to his players and often wanted a player or players re-signed. I always like when people point fingers with nothing but speculation.

 

[CupWizier]

The biggest Neil made this offseason was expecting Pau Gasol to be ready. I think he was counting on him and that turned out to be a disaster.

How can you call it a disaster when he was signed to a very low cost contract that had an out if it didn't work? No long term effect and very little effect in the scheme of things and I would say he was counted on more for leadership and helping with the young guys as opposed to being much of a contributor. As a coach, he can continue in that roll.

 

[Orion Bailey]

what you also fail to address is how involved Paul Allen may have likely been in the contracts that were doled out in 2016. You easily point the finger but have no proof one way or the other as to where and if any blame should be associated. It's been known from the past that PA got attached to his players and often wanted a player or players re-signed. I always like when people point fingers with nothing but speculation.

Isn't this nothing but speculation? I don't disagree, as I THINK this is true, but without a link or article, this is just as much speculation as the post being countered. I don't recall anything specific ever coming out that solidifies this with any certainty. care to post a link, or speculate?

 

[tlongII]

How can you call it a disaster when he was signed to a very low cost contract that had an out if it didn't work? No long term effect and very little effect in the scheme of things and I would say he was counted on more for leadership and helping with the young guys as opposed to being much of a contributor. As a coach, he can continue in that roll.

I believe they were counting on Gasol to be a backup big. Our injuries have resulted in the team being very thin up front. That is the single most pressing issue the team has this season.

 

[tester551]

what you also fail to address is how involved Paul Allen may have likely been in the contracts that were doled out in 2016. You easily point the finger but have no proof one way or the other as to where and if any blame should be associated. It's been known from the past that PA got attached to his players and often wanted a player or players re-signed. I always like when people point fingers with nothing but speculation.

Isn't that exactly what you are doing?

My view of how PA always operated was that he always questioned and grilled the GM on why the Blazers ought to go a certain direction. He wanted to be 'convinced' that a decision is correct, but almost always let the GM make the final decision. This is how things ought to run.

I think this perception that PA was micromanaging everything is misplaced.... but again, its pure speculation on both sides.

 

[Propagandist]

what you also fail to address is how involved Paul Allen may have likely been in the contracts that were doled out in 2016. You easily point the finger but have no proof one way or the other as to where and if any blame should be associated. It's been known from the past that PA got attached to his players and often wanted a player or players re-signed. I always like when people point fingers with nothing but speculation.

You are refraining from pointing fingers based on speculation. And in your speculation Olshey is just a puppet...we'll call it: The Cuppet Puppet Conspiracy!

 

[Natebishop3]

This is the most apathetic I have ever been about this team. It feels like we're completely locked in with this core and this core ain't getting it done. This season feels like a huge waste of Dame's prime. Obviously injuries are not something you can predict and this team feels cursed. At least I have the Niners to watch.

 

[Neil O. Shyster]

Blazers have tried this Dame/CJ combo for 6 years now... Dame turns 30 next season... it’s time to trade CJ and try something new before it’s too late... my fear is Neil’s ego is too big and he will triple down.

 

[illmatic99]

Am I the only one OK with the CJ extension? He's at worst a top 40 player in the league but would most likely be more valuable if he had his own team. Letting his extension dangle would only cause drama. And you aren't getting a player back of his caliber in outright free agency. At least he's tradeable with a long term contract-- this isn't a CLE with Love sorta thing.

CJ will be the 28th highest paid player in the league in 2021-22. And is prolly gonna get lower down the list once more extensions kick in this summer. This is OK.

 

[oldfisherman]

I can only recall one time it was reported that Mr. Allen strongly disagreed with the GM.

During the 2009 draft, the Blazers had pick #55. KP had a player he wanted, sorry, forget who. PA disagreed. KP humored him and let PA make the pick, figuring pick 55 had little chance to make the roster. Let the owner play with his toy move.

PA's pick, Patty Mills

 

[e_blazer]

Accountability? Let's take a look: Olshey's plan for the team going into fall camp was basically:

1. Have Whiteside start at center, with have Zach Collins taking some backup minutes until Nurk returned in February. He had Skal and Gasol slated as insurance. I have a hard time finding fault with that plan.

2. Have Zach Collins start at PF, with Toliver, Hezonja, and Skal as options for backup minutes. Nothing wrong with that plan.

3. Have Rodney Hood start at SF, with Bazemore, Hezonja and potentially Little as backups. A little undersized, maybe, but a solid rotation with plenty of firepower nonetheless.

4. CJ starts at SG, with Bazemore and Simons as backups. Fine.

5. Dame starts as PG, with Simons as backup and Hezonja able to take some minutes bringing the ball up. Probably a little thin. I would have preferred to see a veteran PG signed for insurance, but that's something that could have been dealt with prior to the deadline.

His design offered plenty of flexibility, with ending contracts for Whiteside and Bazemore available to work trades prior to the deadline to make ready for a playoff run. From a roster planning standpoint, I see very little to complain about. I'd probably agree with Platy that re-signing Jake Layman instead of spending money on Hezonja would have been a better move, and I'd have preferred to see a veteran PG on the roster in case Simons didn't pan out or an injury happened.

Since Olshey's plan was made, Collins was injured, Gasol didn't heal as expected and was cut, Skal was injured, and Hood was lost for the season. Olshey was able to add Melo as likely the best free agent option out there to replace Collins as starting PF. I don't have a complaint about that.

As I see it, some of the bitching around here has been roughly like seeing an Indy car get clipped in the first couple laps of the race, lose two wheels, have it's alignment knocked totally out of whack, and having the fans complain because, hey, it's still got a top notch engine and transmission so why isn't it competing? The Blazers are reduced to playing AT and Moses Freaking Brown minutes at center. Melo can barely jump and is only 6'8". They're getting out-boarded and they're getting scored on at will in the paint. The coach can't turn big man water into big man wine. I do think that the Blazers can play better, work harder and can maybe stay within striking distance of a playoff berth, but it's not going to be easy.

Olshey can't make a trade without a willing trade partner. Not only that, the team's current needs don't necessarily match their long term needs. A really talented SF would be my top wish for the Blazers long term. I love Rodney Hood, but I'd rather see him as a backup SG/SF and get someone a bit bigger and better defensively as a starter at that position. The team's biggest needs right now are at center, but those needs will be met by spring with the return of Nurk and Collins. Bottom line, I don't see that there's much that's within Olshey's control that you can fault him with.