Accountability

[Orion Bailey]

Accountability? Let's take a look: Olshey's plan for the team going into fall camp was basically:

1. Have Whiteside start at center, with have Zach Collins taking some backup minutes until Nurk returned in February. He had Skal and Gasol slated as insurance. I have a hard time finding fault with that plan.

2. Have Zach Collins start at PF, with Toliver, Hezonja, and Skal as options for backup minutes. Nothing wrong with that plan.

3. Have Rodney Hood start at SF, with Bazemore, Hezonja and potentially Little as backups. A little undersized, maybe, but a solid rotation with plenty of firepower nonetheless.

4. CJ starts at SG, with Bazemore and Simons as backups. Fine.

5. Dame starts as PG, with Simons as backup and Hezonja able to take some minutes bringing the ball up. Probably a little thin. I would have preferred to see a veteran PG signed for insurance, but that's something that could have been dealt with prior to the deadline.

His design offered plenty of flexibility, with ending contracts for Whiteside and Bazemore available to work trades prior to the deadline to make ready for a playoff run. From a roster planning standpoint, I see very little to complain about. I'd probably agree with Platy that re-signing Jake Layman instead of spending money on Hezonja would have been a better move, and I'd have preferred to see a veteran PG on the roster in case Simons didn't pan out or an injury happened.

Since Olshey's plan was made, Collins was injured, Gasol didn't heal as expected and was cut, Skal was injured, and Hood was lost for the season. Olshey was able to add Melo as likely the best free agent option out there to replace Collins as starting PF. I don't have a complaint about that.

As I see it, some of the bitching around here has been roughly like seeing an Indy car get clipped in the first couple laps of the race, lose two wheels, have it's alignment knocked totally out of whack, and having the fans complain because, hey, it's still got a top notch engine and transmission so why isn't it competing? The Blazers are reduced to playing AT and Moses Freaking Brown minutes at center. Melo can barely jump and is only 6'8". They're getting out-boarded and they're getting scored on at will in the paint. The coach can't turn big man water into big man wine. I do think that the Blazers can play better, work harder and can maybe stay within striking distance of a playoff berth, but it's not going to be easy.

Olshey can't make a trade without a willing trade partner. Not only that, the team's current needs don't necessarily match their long term needs. A really talented SF would be my top wish for the Blazers long term. I love Rodney Hood, but I'd rather see him as a backup SG/SF and get someone a bit bigger and better defensively as a starter at that position. The team's biggest needs right now are at center, but those needs will be met by spring with the return of Nurk and Collins. Bottom line, I don't see that there's much that's within Olshey's control that you can fault him with.

Solid post.

 

[Neil O. Shyster]

Accountability? Let's take a look: Olshey's plan for the team going into fall camp was basically:

1. Have Whiteside start at center, with have Zach Collins taking some backup minutes until Nurk returned in February. He had Skal and Gasol slated as insurance. I have a hard time finding fault with that plan.

2. Have Zach Collins start at PF, with Toliver, Hezonja, and Skal as options for backup minutes. Nothing wrong with that plan.

3. Have Rodney Hood start at SF, with Bazemore, Hezonja and potentially Little as backups. A little undersized, maybe, but a solid rotation with plenty of firepower nonetheless.

4. CJ starts at SG, with Bazemore and Simons as backups. Fine.

5. Dame starts as PG, with Simons as backup and Hezonja able to take some minutes bringing the ball up. Probably a little thin. I would have preferred to see a veteran PG signed for insurance, but that's something that could have been dealt with prior to the deadline.

His design offered plenty of flexibility, with ending contracts for Whiteside and Bazemore available to work trades prior to the deadline to make ready for a playoff run. From a roster planning standpoint, I see very little to complain about. I'd probably agree with Platy that re-signing Jake Layman instead of spending money on Hezonja would have been a better move, and I'd have preferred to see a veteran PG on the roster in case Simons didn't pan out or an injury happened.

Since Olshey's plan was made, Collins was injured, Gasol didn't heal as expected and was cut, Skal was injured, and Hood was lost for the season. Olshey was able to add Melo as likely the best free agent option out there to replace Collins as starting PF. I don't have a complaint about that.

As I see it, some of the bitching around here has been roughly like seeing an Indy car get clipped in the first couple laps of the race, lose two wheels, have it's alignment knocked totally out of whack, and having the fans complain because, hey, it's still got a top notch engine and transmission so why isn't it competing? The Blazers are reduced to playing AT and Moses Freaking Brown minutes at center. Melo can barely jump and is only 6'8". They're getting out-boarded and they're getting scored on at will in the paint. The coach can't turn big man water into big man wine. I do think that the Blazers can play better, work harder and can maybe stay within striking distance of a playoff berth, but it's not going to be easy.

Olshey can't make a trade without a willing trade partner. Not only that, the team's current needs don't necessarily match their long term needs. A really talented SF would be my top wish for the Blazers long term. I love Rodney Hood, but I'd rather see him as a backup SG/SF and get someone a bit bigger and better defensively as a starter at that position. The team's biggest needs right now are at center, but those needs will be met by spring with the return of Nurk and Collins. Bottom line, I don't see that there's much that's within Olshey's control that you can fault him with.

It’s naive to think that no injuries will happen throughout a season... maybe even moronic. And the fact that the star players have remained healthy and there is this big of a drop off because of Collins and Hood shows how flawed this roster is. More specifically, going all in with CJ as the 2nd star and paying him 30-35 mil. If the players you are paying big money to need 100% roster health to be even a .500 ball club than maybe they aren’t worth the salary cap room you are committing to them. Neil needs to have some accountability.

 

[e_blazer]

It’s naive to think that no injuries will happen throughout a season... maybe even moronic. And the fact that the star players have remained healthy and there is this big of a drop off because of Collins and Hood shows how flawed this roster is. More specifically, going all in with CJ as the 2nd star and paying him 30-35 mil. If the players you are paying big money to need 100% roster health to be even a .500 ball club than maybe they aren’t worth the salary cap room you are committing to them. Neil needs to have some accountability.

Of course injuries happen, but they compound in impact when they wipe out the depth at a single position. Injuries to Collins and Labissiere, combined with Gasol not healing as expected, have decimated the Blazers' front court. It's naive and maybe even moronic to expect that an NBA team can survive that, especially in a highly competitive Western Conference.

 

[tester551]

I can only recall one time it was reported that Mr. Allen strongly disagreed with the GM.

During the 2009 draft, the Blazers had pick #55. KP had a player he wanted, sorry, forget who. PA disagreed. KP humored him and let PA make the pick, figuring pick 55 had little chance to make the roster. Let the owner play with his toy move.

PA's pick, Patty Mills

There was also the Roy extension. In the end, the GM got his way & cost Portland a lot of $.

 

[Neil O. Shyster]

Of course injuries happen, but they compound in impact when they wipe out the depth at a single position. Injuries to Collins and Labissiere, combined with Gasol not healing as expected, have decimated the Blazers' front court. It's naive and maybe even moronic to expect that an NBA team can survive that, especially in a highly competitive Western Conference.

If this teams problem was as simple as having a big body than Neil could’ve easily addressed it by now. Zach maybe a great player in the future but his current production was replaceable.

 

[illmatic99]

It’s naive to think that no injuries will happen throughout a season... maybe even moronic. And the fact that the star players have remained healthy and there is this big of a drop off because of Collins and Hood shows how flawed this roster is. More specifically, going all in with CJ as the 2nd star and paying him 30-35 mil. If the players you are paying big money to need 100% roster health to be even a .500 ball club than maybe they aren’t worth the salary cap room you are committing to them. Neil needs to have some accountability.

You think any other team anticipates 3 of its top 5 players and its entire front court to all be lost to long term injuries at once? 1 OK, we even prepared for that with Whiteside/Gasol to handle the Nurk absence, especially with Zach's ability to swing to 5. But no one expected Zach and Hood and now Skal to all get hurt at once. Anthony Tolliver should not be playing rotation minutes.

I'm still waiting for one viable alternative from all the critics here instead of complaints. Jake Layman isn't solving a single issue. You wanted us to keep Meyers?

I hate that I am defending Neil, fwiw. He isn't exactly one of my favorite people.

 

[Neil O. Shyster]

You think any other team anticipates 3 of its top 5 players and its entire front court to all be lost to long term injuries at once? 1 OK, we even prepared for that with Whiteside/Gasol.

I'm still waiting for one viable alternative from all the critics here instead of complaints. Jake Layman isn't solving a single issue. You wanted us to keep Meyers?

I’m sick of this 3 of 5 propaganda. How many times do I have to say it... Nurk injury was baked into cake. Blazers made playoff run last year without Nurk. Team talked championship this season knowing Nurk was out. So then it comes down to 2 players. We replaced Zach with Melo... and no matter what you say, it’s debatable who helps this team more. So then you are essentially looking at 1 player down, and we had an 8-12 record before the Hood injury.

 

[CupWizier]

Isn't that exactly what you are doing?

My view of how PA always operated was that he always questioned and grilled the GM on why the Blazers ought to go a certain direction. He wanted to be 'convinced' that a decision is correct, but almost always let the GM make the final decision. This is how things ought to run.

I think this perception that PA was micromanaging everything is misplaced.... but again, its pure speculation on both sides.

I never said he was micromanaging but he was very involved in decision making.

 

[illmatic99]

I’m sick of this 3 of 5 propaganda. How many times do I have to say it... Nurk injury was baked into cake. Blazers made playoff run last year without Nurk. Team talked championship this season knowing Nurk was out. So then it comes down to 2 players. We replaced Zach with Melo... and no matter what you say, it’s debatable who helps this team more. So then you are essentially looking at 1 player down, and we had an 8-12 record before the Hood injury.

It's like you don't read?

Nurk's absence was handled with HW/Gasol/Skal and Zach's ability to swing to 5. Not one person here criticized this over the summer.

And you seem to think there's only one end of the floor to play.

Must be a closet Meyers fan.

 

[CupWizier]

There was also the Roy extension. In the end, the GM got his way & cost Portland a lot of $.

actually it was the GM that was balking at giving Roy a max length contract. Word on the street was that PA told him to get it done when a lot of backlash was coming from the fan base. Now we know why a long term contract was a concern.

 

[Neil O. Shyster]

It's like you don't read?

Nurk's absence was handled with HW/Gasol/Skal and Zach's ability to swing to 5. Not one person here criticized this over the summer.

And you seem to think there's only one end of the floor to play.

Must be a closet Meyers fan.

I said Zach vs Melo was debatable... Zach was a foul machine and inconsistent on offense for all the good he brought. Melo probably a better rebounder. Either way, certainly not a big enough difference to excuse this year’s performance.

 

[e_blazer]

I’m sick of this 3 of 5 propaganda. How many times do I have to say it... Nurk injury was baked into cake. Blazers made playoff run last year without Nurk. Team talked championship this season knowing Nurk was out. So then it comes down to 2 players. We replaced Zach with Melo... and no matter what you say, it’s debatable who helps this team more. So then you are essentially looking at 1 player down, and we had an 8-12 record before the Hood injury.

Collins and Hood makes two starters down, no matter how you try to use creative math. All of the backups to Collins (Gasol and Labissire) being down is also a rather important factor you conveniently ignore. Melo is fine offensively, but he can't defend like Collins and he can't board like Collins.

 

[Orion Bailey]

It’s naive to think that no injuries will happen throughout a season... maybe even moronic. And the fact that the star players have remained healthy and there is this big of a drop off because of Collins and Hood shows how flawed this roster is. More specifically, going all in with CJ as the 2nd star and paying him 30-35 mil. If the players you are paying big money to need 100% roster health to be even a .500 ball club than maybe they aren’t worth the salary cap room you are committing to them. Neil needs to have some accountability.

Its naive and almost moronic to PLAN for injuries. Have depth for anything. But you don't go get a player because you think this guy or that guy might get injured. I mean really??? Are you advocating to build around a roster based on if this guy or that guy gets injured? No wonder you are a GM in the NBA........

 

[Wade Garrett]

I’m not blaming him for having optimism and trying to sell tickets... I’m blaming him for not admitting when he fails, and not holding anyone accountable... and instead getting defensive and having disdain for the fans for wanting them held to a higher standard for a team with a league high $147 mil payroll.

"I'm blaming him for not admitting when he fails......."
Seriously?
When, in any sport have you ever heard a GM publically admit personal failure?
Coaches? ..yes..
Players?....yes...
GM's?.....never gonna happen.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I’m sick of this 3 of 5 propaganda. How many times do I have to say it... Nurk injury was baked into cake. Blazers made playoff run last year without Nurk. Team talked championship this season knowing Nurk was out. So then it comes down to 2 players. We replaced Zach with Melo... and no matter what you say, it’s debatable who helps this team more. So then you are essentially looking at 1 player down, and we had an 8-12 record before the Hood injury.

Im sick of this baked idea. Your narrative is repetitive. Come up with something new please. And no matter what YOU say its debatable. so just stop with you being the only one with opinions that are absolutes.... for christ's sake man....

 

[Neil O. Shyster]

Im sick of this baked idea. Your narrative is repetitive. Come up with something new please. And no matter what YOU say its debatable. so just stop with you being the only one with opinions that are absolutes.... for christ's sake man....

I’m stating a fact... if someone is going to lie about it to create their narrative I will respond. Nothing is debatable about the Nurk injury being baked into the cake.

 

[Stevenson]

You made all of this up. 100%. You have zero idea whether there is or is not accountability. Or actually, even if there was. And there is no way you, or any of us, could know. All you have a few snippets from the newspaper and made up a theory.

 

[Neil O. Shyster]

Its naive and almost moronic to PLAN for injuries. Have depth for anything. But you don't go get a player because you think this guy or that guy might get injured. I mean really??? Are you advocating to build around a roster based on if this guy or that guy gets injured? No wonder you are a GM in the NBA........

Of course you don’t plan for injuries but at the same time you have to be realistic that some will happen. But the team should not be so fragile that all of a sudden you go from championship talk to 7 games under .500 because a couple average players go down. Especially when you still have talent like Dame, CJ, Whiteside, Bazemore ALL HEALTHY making over $110 mil combined!

 

[Orion Bailey]

I’m stating a fact... if someone is going to lie about it to create their narrative I will respond. Nothing is debatable about the Nurk injury being baked into the cake.

Fact is when Nurk got hurt. Everything else is debatable. It is not fact about Melo and Collins. That's all debatable.

Your hindsite 20/20 is spot on. Just like everyone else. Key is did you see it before? Did you foresee Hood and Collins getting injured? Why didn't you have viable replacements for them acquired in the off season? Everyone has to plan for injuries right?

Come on man... common sense is a real thing that can be used. Not just some gimic.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Of course you don’t plan for injuries but at the same time you have to be realistic that some will happen. But the team should not be so fragile that all of a sudden you go from championship talk to 7 games under .500 because a couple average players go down. Especially when you still have talent like Dame, CJ, Whiteside, Bazemore ALL HEALTHY making over $110 mil combined!

Being realistic and your posts shouldn't come wrapped in one statement.

 

[wizenheimer]

We got rid of all of the mistakes from 2016 pretty easily, having given up no assets to do so, unlike most of the other teams.

that's really not true. Portland converted Turner to Bazemore and that's no improvement in production. They converted Harkless/Meyers into Whiteside. That's been an upgrade at C, although the defense of Harkless is sorely missed.

and in those exchanges, Portland is paying 15M more this season in salary and tax. That's asset. Those 2016 salaries are still there and they are even more expensive this season

and of course:

Andrew Nicholson : $2,844,429 $2,844,429 $2,844,429 $2,844,429 $2,844,429 $2,844,429 $2,844,42.....that's what it has cost to get rid of Crabbe; Blazers have to pay that price for 4 more seasons....yeeeeesh

and arguably, CJ's rookie extension was one of the miscalculations from 2016, and Olshey tripled-down on that by giving CJ another extension last summer. That's 31M/year over 5 years

 

[TBpup]

I can only recall one time it was reported that Mr. Allen strongly disagreed with the GM.

During the 2009 draft, the Blazers had pick #55. KP had a player he wanted, sorry, forget who. PA disagreed. KP humored him and let PA make the pick, figuring pick 55 had little chance to make the roster. Let the owner play with his toy move.

PA's pick, Patty Mills

Paul wanted Patty Mills
Paul did not want to give Roy so much money
Paul preferred Durant over Oden but it wasn't so much so to go against everyone else in the room who wanted Oden

 

[illmatic99]

that's really not true. Portland converted Turner to Bazemore and that's no improvement in production. They converted Harkless/Meyers into Whiteside. That's been an upgrade at C, although the defense of Harkless is sorely missed.

Bazemore is shooting 36% from 3 on 4 attempts per game this season. Getting that for ET is no "improvement in production?" Have you looked at ET's stats this year?

and in those exchanges, Portland is paying 15M more this season in salary and tax. That's asset. Those 2016 salaries are still there and they are even more expensive this season

This is a strawman? Again, do I have to highlight what LAL paid to get rid of Deng/Mozgov? Or MEM with Parsons? etc etc.

and of course:

Andrew Nicholson : $2,844,429 $2,844,429 $2,844,429 $2,844,429 $2,844,429 $2,844,429 $2,844,42.....that's what it has cost to get rid of Crabbe; Blazers have to pay that price for 4 more seasons....yeeeeesh

and arguably, CJ's rookie extension was one of the miscalculations from 2016, and Olshey tripled-down on that by giving CJ another extension last summer. That's 31M/year over 5 years

The one mistake I've repeatedly gotten Neil for was the stretch of Nicholson. There was literally no reason to do it. If you're gonna kill Neil repeatedly for the CJ extension in every thread, I'm hoping you give him just as much credit for the Nurk one.

 

[CupWizier]

You are refraining from pointing fingers based on speculation, goofball. And in your speculation Olshey is just a puppet...we'll call it: The Cuppet Puppet Conspiracy!

wow, do all of you just jump from one extreme to another? It's getting so ridiculous in this forum.

 

[Propagandist]

wow, do all of you just jump from one extreme to another? It's getting so ridiculous in this forum.

I'm not the one suggesting a shadow Blazer front office, nor am I the one that's repeatedly been placed on forum probation.

 

[CupWizier]

Of course injuries happen, but they compound in impact when they wipe out the depth at a single position. Injuries to Collins and Labissiere, combined with Gasol not healing as expected, have decimated the Blazers' front court. It's naive and maybe even moronic to expect that an NBA team can survive that, especially in a highly competitive Western Conference.

and what people fail to understand is that even if this is a down year for the team, the team is still in pretty good position to bounce back quickly. Look it how long it took the lakers to become relevant again. We have been fortunate as we could be the Kings, Suns, TWolvers etc and always being in the lottery and always missing the playoffs.

 

[Chris Craig]

Olshey and Jody said they were going all in this season. They didn't. Signing an old ass injured pau gasol is not going all in. Hezonja and Tolliver are not going all in. Relying on Simons and Collins is not going all in. Neither is trading Turner for Bazemore...somehow Bazemore is worse.

You shouldnt tell fans you are going all in when your not.

 

[Chris Craig]

Okay so what would you have had him say instead? Sorry Portland, we will not be competing next year for a title, so it will be a year of mediocrity. Please sit and be patient for the next season?



First that would be pure lunacy (ticket sales, etc). Secondly, Every time goes into the next season expecting to compete and hope to chase a ring. EVERY TEAM. This is the pros man...

Sigh... do you ever come up with answers to your complaints? If not, you should try.

That would have been better than lying to us

 

[illmatic99]

Neither is trading Turner for Bazemore...somehow Bazemore is worse.

Eh?

In 18 games, Turner is putting up 3/2/2 on 38% from the field. He hasn't made a single three all year.

Baze is at 8/4/1 and shooting 36% from three on 4 attempts a game.

 

[e_blazer]

Olshey and Jody said they were going all in this season. They didn't. Signing an old ass injured pau gasol is not going all in. Hezonja and Tolliver are not going all in. Relying on Simons and Collins is not going all in. Neither is trading Turner for Bazemore...somehow Bazemore is worse.

You shouldnt tell fans you are going all in when your not.

I think the all-in part of the plan was slated to happen at the deadline when Whiteside or Bazemore could be moved for a better player at a position of need.