Politics Afghanistan Withdrawal (1 Viewer)

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Chris Craig said:
Hindsight is 20/20. It would have been better to keep troops there until all other US citizens and afghans who wanted out, knowing the US was leaving, could do so safely.

The US spent decades training afghan forces to withstand and fight back against the Taliban to keep their country from falling into the groups hands. The afghan military flopped and ran as soon as they heard the Taliban were coming. How many more decades should the US have spent there training a military that proved so uncapable after decades of training already?

It's not our country. We lost so many lives their for nothing. The US should have withdrawn after we took out Bin Laden.

How many more presidents should this have been passed on to? How many more American lives should this unwinnable war take?
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agree 100% and we should not be supplying Pakistan money and military aid because they support the Taliban. Fuck em
 
There has been more analysis of what went wrong in Afghanistan the past four days than previous 20 years. Unfortunately the experts cited are the ones who got the US into this mess, not the opponents who were right all along.
 
Spencer Ackerman on How the U.S. War on Terror Fueled and Excused Right-Wing Extremism at Home.

 
crandc said:
Afghanistan had democracy in the 70s. But it never really extended past urban areas.
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Actually the tribal warlords in the mountains have never had democracy...that was only for the ruling class in Kabul at the time..they've been blood fueding for all eternity in that rock pile
 
The US is good at destabilizing democracy for their own ends--Afghanistan, Iran. Then those nations that they threw into chaos for short-term gain, haunt America (and the world and, most distressingly, their own people) for the long term.
 
Minstrel said:
The US is good at destabilizing democracy for their own ends--Afghanistan, Iran. Then those nations that they threw into chaos for short-term gain, haunt America (and the world and, most distressingly, their own people) for the long term.
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Not just there. All across Eruope, Asia, South America etc. We go in with coups and take out dictators or leaders who are not willing to be bought. We install puppet regimes or paper democracies with the promise of building infrastructure. We put these countries in our debt and then take their resources for our own. Or in the case of Iraq we just say they have WMDs and go in and take out the leader and take their oil.
 
Hoopguru said:
No reason whatsoever they couldnt have gone about it differently, as you say so they could get out. Why would we take our troops from the Bagram airbase before American citizens and Afga refugees could leave? That alone sent a meaasge to the Taliban that we were hi tailing it out of there quickly. This seem a lot like the Bay of Pigs screw up to me. What a mess.
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The Taliban knew we were leaving because we (Trump) made an agreement with them that we would. The only surprise to the Taliban was probably that we were taking so long.

As for Bagram, it's something like 35 miles from Kabul. Not that useful for evacuations because it would be harder for the evacuees to reach - apparently they can walk to the Kabul airport. It would be useful if we wanted to bomb the Taliban, but we don't at this point.

barfo
 
barfo said:
The Taliban knew we were leaving because we (Trump) made an agreement with them that we would. The only surprise to the Taliban was probably that we were taking so long.

As for Bagram, it's something like 35 miles from Kabul. Not that useful for evacuations because it would be harder for the evacuees to reach - apparently they can walk to the Kabul airport. It would be useful if we wanted to bomb the Taliban, but we don't at this point.

barfo
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Yeah, Trump let 5,000 of their top leaders out of prison and signed an agreement with the taliban (probably telling them they can have Afghanistan just leave us alone) and they have been building their ranks and getting ready for what they knew was coming.
 
US evacuation efforts have been paused for now.
 
Chris Craig said:
Not just there. All across Eruope, Asia, South America etc. We go in with coups and take out dictators or leaders who are not willing to be bought. We install puppet regimes or paper democracies with the promise of building infrastructure. We put these countries in our debt and then take their resources for our own. Or in the case of Iraq we just say they have WMDs and go in and take out the leader and take their oil.
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I was talking about existing democracies that the US destabilized. Examples like Iraq weren't democracies. But yes, the US destabilizes a lot of nations.
 
Minstrel said:
I was talking about existing democracies that the US destabilized. Examples like Iraq weren't democracies. But yes, the US destabilizes a lot of nations.
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Oh right
 
Chile, Iran, Dominican republic, Guatemala only a few of the countries where US overthrew elected popular governments and installed brutal dictatorships. All they had to say is they were anticommunist.
 
barfo said:
The Taliban knew we were leaving because we (Trump) made an agreement with them that we would. The only surprise to the Taliban was probably that we were taking so long.

As for Bagram, it's something like 35 miles from Kabul. Not that useful for evacuations because it would be harder for the evacuees to reach - apparently they can walk to the Kabul airport. It would be useful if we wanted to bomb the Taliban, but we don't at this point.

barfo
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The agreement with Trump was a CONDITIONAL agreement. The Taliban had not kept their part of the agreement - so the US was not on committed to anything at this point.
 
Reagan, Bush Sr., and The Carlyle Group created and funded the Taliban... We'll just start there...

These were NOT the people who supposedly attacked us on 9/11. WHY THE FUCK did we NOT go to Saudi Arabia?? Why the FUCK are they are allies in the first place??

We were never supposed to go to Afghanistan in the first place and I'm glad my cousin, who's done FOUR FUCKING TOURS there won't have to go back.
 
Tucker Carlson and other rightists screaming about Afghani refugees are talking about the scary prospect they could be like ... Ilhan Omar.

Yes, a woman who came here as a child with her father, refugees. Settled in a strange country. She graduated from college, established a career advancing child nutrition, married, and got elected to US Congress. Whether or not you agree with her politically, she is a great American success story.
 
crandc said:
Tucker Carlson and other rightists screaming about Afghani refugees are talking about the scary prospect they could be like ... Ilhan Omar.

Yes, a woman who came here as a child with her father, refugees. Settled in a strange country. She graduated from college, established a career advancing child nutrition, married, and got elected to US Congress. Whether or not you agree with her politically, she is a great American success story.
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That guy is just like another Alex Jones to me...I don't pay any attention to anything either of them say...it's how you make his opionions very, very small and unimportant...Tucker Carlson is an idiot magnet
 
riverman said:
That guy is just like another Alex Jones to me...I don't pay any attention to anything either of them say...it's how you make his opionions very, very small and unimportant...Tucker Carlson is an idiot magnet
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He's a smarter, easier to listen to for the righties. So much that he comes off as knowledgeable.

He has the most punchable fucking face OMG...
 
Tyrant of Ants said:
It's a close one between him and Sean Hannity. Would like to do this to the both of them:

Bruce_Leeroy_Hadouken_medium.gif
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:biglaugh:
 
calvin natt said:
I want to punch Cruz, DeSantis and DT Junior the most I think. Also since I wouldn’t hit a woman I’d like crandc to deck that Greene lady.
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You’re too much of a gentlemen. I’d donate serious cash to a charity for the opportunity to punch both Greene and Boebert in the face……HARD. As much as I hate DT Jr., I’m just counting the days until his heart (such as it is) seizes up from all the coke…..
 
dviss1 said:
Reagan, Bush Sr., and The Carlyle Group created and funded the Taliban... We'll just start there...

These were NOT the people who supposedly attacked us on 9/11. WHY THE FUCK did we NOT go to Saudi Arabia?? Why the FUCK are they are allies in the first place??

We were never supposed to go to Afghanistan in the first place and I'm glad my cousin, who's done FOUR FUCKING TOURS there won't have to go back.
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The absolute best part of the withdrawal is watching China say, “hold my beer.” Just another country too stupid to learn from the mistakes of others…….
 
US tells people to avoid Kabul airport amid reports of crush.

 
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/british-parliament-rages-against-biden

British Parliament rages against Biden

British members of Parliament railed against President Joe Biden on Wednesday, lamenting his chaotic and dishonorable withdrawal from Afghanistan.

The complaints weren't specifically targeted against Biden's decision to withdraw U.S. forces from Afghanistan. Instead, it was the feckless, unprepared, and callous method of Biden's retreat that has sparked such anger.

One after the other, senior backbenchers took to their feet to express their concerns. Former Conservative Party leader Iain Duncan Smith lamented Biden's "chaotic rush and despicable retreat." Referencing China's use of the chaos as a means to pressure Taiwan , Duncan Smith implored that "America must come back" to its position of global leadership.

Tobias Ellwood observed that it isn't a collapse of Western security forces that we've seen over the past few days, but rather "it's the leadership that is going." Owen Paterson went further, asserting that Britain will "now have to deal with a weak American president."

Tom Tugendhat deplored Biden's "shameful" blame game against Afghan forces who had fought and died alongside Americans.

Labour member Chris Bryant asked what would happen to other U.S. and British allies who can't make it to Kabul airport to evacuate. "What are the 15,000 meant to do? Hang around and wait until they've been executed?" Bryant asked.

The alarm here has two primary elements.

First, parliamentarians are realizing that Biden's inaugural address pledge to be a "strong and trusted partner" and "repair our alliances" might not be worth all that much .

In addition, as with other close U.S. allies, it hasn't escaped British notice that Biden's response to criticism has been one of petulant rage. Rather than accept that mistakes have been made and attempt to mitigate them , Biden has sought to change the conversation and hidden to avoid questions from the media. Where he has taken questions, as withABC'sGeorge Stephanopoulos, the president has shown a callous disregard for the humanitarian disaster and credibility crisis he has induced.

If top politicians from America's closest ally are offering such harsh criticisms out loud, one can only wonder what other allies are thinking.
 
ABM said:
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/british-parliament-rages-against-biden

British Parliament rages against Biden

British members of Parliament railed against President Joe Biden on Wednesday, lamenting his chaotic and dishonorable withdrawal from Afghanistan.

The complaints weren't specifically targeted against Biden's decision to withdraw U.S. forces from Afghanistan. Instead, it was the feckless, unprepared, and callous method of Biden's retreat that has sparked such anger.

One after the other, senior backbenchers took to their feet to express their concerns. Former Conservative Party leader Iain Duncan Smith lamented Biden's "chaotic rush and despicable retreat." Referencing China's use of the chaos as a means to pressure Taiwan , Duncan Smith implored that "America must come back" to its position of global leadership.

Tobias Ellwood observed that it isn't a collapse of Western security forces that we've seen over the past few days, but rather "it's the leadership that is going." Owen Paterson went further, asserting that Britain will "now have to deal with a weak American president."

Tom Tugendhat deplored Biden's "shameful" blame game against Afghan forces who had fought and died alongside Americans.

Labour member Chris Bryant asked what would happen to other U.S. and British allies who can't make it to Kabul airport to evacuate. "What are the 15,000 meant to do? Hang around and wait until they've been executed?" Bryant asked.

The alarm here has two primary elements.

First, parliamentarians are realizing that Biden's inaugural address pledge to be a "strong and trusted partner" and "repair our alliances" might not be worth all that much .

In addition, as with other close U.S. allies, it hasn't escaped British notice that Biden's response to criticism has been one of petulant rage. Rather than accept that mistakes have been made and attempt to mitigate them , Biden has sought to change the conversation and hidden to avoid questions from the media. Where he has taken questions, as withABC'sGeorge Stephanopoulos, the president has shown a callous disregard for the humanitarian disaster and credibility crisis he has induced.

If top politicians from America's closest ally are offering such harsh criticisms out loud, one can only wonder what other allies are thinking.
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They're wrong. They overlook the fact that corruption in the government was so rampant that the war against the Taliban could never be won. The corruption had to be corrected before any lasting progress could be made and I'm not sure that was even possible.
 
Lanny said:
They're wrong. They overlook the fact that corruption in the government was so rampant that the war against the Taliban could never be won. The corruption had to be corrected before any lasting progress could be made and I'm not sure that was even possible.
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I believe they're upset about the manner in which the withdrawal was handled. Not the withdrawal in and of itself.
 
ABM said:
I believe they're upset about the manner in which the withdrawal was handled. Not the withdrawal in and of itself.
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Rightfully so. It's been abysmal & incompetently handled
 
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