Politics Al Franken accused of sexual misconduct

[Rastapopoulos]

 

[Rastapopoulos]

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Not-The-Greatest Generation

 

[SlyPokerDog]

That looks like the air guitar of gropes.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

 

[Further]

I doubt it. but who knows. Seems more like a joke picture (he was a comedian) and the skit is something that I assume she participated in but in retrospect she didn't;t want to kiss him. That's just not the same. But, If it turns out he forced his kiss, well that would be bad and should be repudiated. I'll listen to what else comes out.

 

[julius]

I doubt it. but who knows. Seems more like a joke picture (he was a comedian) and the skit is something that I assume she participated in but in retrospect she didn't;t want to kiss him. That's just not the same. But, If it turns out he forced his kiss, well that would be bad and should be repudiated. I'll listen to what else comes out.

There is always more to the stories than we initially hear (and we almost always have people who go right into their fighting positions for both).

It will be interesting to hear the whole story (I don't want to believe it, but I have to give her the benefit of the doubt). It's also interesting to note how often certain allegations don't make the news or disappear. Take the accusations against George Takei. Not a lot has been made about them.

I just hope that nothing happens to Tom Hanks or Denzel Washington.

 

[Further]

There is always more to the stories than we initially hear (and we almost always have people who go right into their fighting positions for both).

It will be interesting to hear the whole story (I don't want to believe it, but I have to give her the benefit of the doubt). It's also interesting to note how often certain allegations don't make the news or disappear. Take the accusations against George Takei. Not a lot has been made about them.

I just hope that nothing happens to Tom Hanks or Denzel Washington.

Well there are a couple things to take into account on many of these accusations. One of the biggest to me, was the age of the people. If it's like Spacey or Moore, and they were doing stuff with teenagers, even consent isn't enough. Also, was it something that just made them feel awkward or was it something forcible. We also should look at power dynamics. Basically, I'm saying that all these accusations are not equal regardless of their veracity. Take Spacey and C.K., I think the accusations for both are bad, but C.K. isn't accused of doing anything to kids, and C.K didn't touch anyone. Basically both may fall under the umbrella of "bad" but that's a pretty huge umbrella. There is little moral equivalency between what Spacy did and what C.K. did.

 

[julius]

Well there are a couple things to take into account on many of these accusations. One of the biggest to me, was the age of the people. If it's like Spacey or Moore, and they were doing stuff with teenagers, even consent isn't enough. Also, was it something that just made them feel awkward or was it something forcible. We also should look at power dynamics. Basically, I'm saying that all these accusations are not equal regardless of their veracity. Take Spacey and C.K., I think the accusations for both are bad, but C.K. isn't accused of doing anything to kids, and C.K didn't touch anyone. Basically both may fall under the umbrella of "bad" but that's a pretty huge umbrella. There is little moral equivalency between what Spacy did and what C.K. did.

I agree. It's still bad, but an alleged unwanted kiss isn't as bad as an alleged unwanted sexual advance against a minor.

Just don't get why either happen.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I agree. It's still bad, but an alleged unwanted kiss isn't as bad as an alleged unwanted sexual advance against a minor.

Just don't get why either happen.

It's sad that we're getting into ranking these things. Of course, there IS a ranking (from fucking a baby to looking at someone in a way that they don't like) but the trouble with this business with Franken is that it betrays an abuse of power. Now, you can point out that clearly he didn't think what he was doing was that wrong if he actually ASKED for it to be photographed, but does that make it better or does that in itself show that he normalized objectifying this person (and probably lots more)? Also the kiss business is pretty damn serious sexual harassment.

 

[santeesioux]

 

[Further]

I agree. It's still bad, but an alleged unwanted kiss isn't as bad as an alleged unwanted sexual advance against a minor.

Just don't get why either happen.

well we don't even know yet what it means by unwanted kiss. Did he grab her and force a kiss or was it like when I was in acting class and we had to do scenes and I kissed for the scene? I don't know yet but at this moment I'm not going to condemn him. And I have not been so quick to believe every other allegation without contemplation either. I personally think it's fine to say, "I don't know who to believe yet." I think it leads to mccarthyism if accusations are all that's required. There is a huge push in the media and by the twitter world to believe all accusers first. I think that's just as scary as believing those who have been accused first. There shouldn't be some truism as to who to believe. You listen to the accusations and listen to the accused and then make a judgement based on facts, or even gut feeling after being open minded to either outcome. Of course for the law there needs to be hard evidence but for the every day Joe, we should at least be thoughtful and contemplative.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Fair question from a garbage person:

 

[Rastapopoulos]

well we don't even know yet what it means by unwanted kiss. Did he grab her and force a kiss or was it like when I was in acting class and we had to do scenes and I kissed for the scene?

Did you force your tongue into your acting partner's mouth against her will? I hope not.

 

[Further]

Did you force your tongue into your acting partner's mouth against her will? I hope not.

No, and I hope that's not what Al Franken did either. I don't know yet. If that is what was done, then he should be roundly condemned. But, if he wrote a scene that included a kiss, and she participated then felt like she was pushed into the scene, well thats a much blurrier line. Both could possible from the accusation. One would be horrible, and the other would perhaps be icky, but not even in the same ballpark.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

 

[Further]

Did you force your tongue into your acting partner's mouth against her will? I hope not.

Also, who's to say that in retrospect the women I did scenes with didn't feel compelled and "forced" by the nature of the situation. We were being graded and high grades were given for showing vulnerability. So, if i have an acting partner and recommend a scene, and she says "i'm not sure" and I respond "come on, it will be perfect for the class, the professor will love the vulnerability we show in this scene", she could acquiesce and later have felt that she was forced unto the situation. I may have never had an inkling of what she was thinking.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

The funny thing is, the Left is in a bit of a quandary here. On the one hand, liberals are supposed to believe in redemption. Not the "come to Jesus" bullshit, but actually redeeming yourself by confronting yourself and acknowledging you did wrong and must change. That's part of why we oppose capital punishment and are in general in favor of reform as the justification for punishment, and thus allowing inmates to take college classes, etc. And these are people who may have raped and murdered people.

But on the other, we want to acknowledge that a lot of what went on before was just out-and-out wrong, and creeps and lechers need to go DOWN as a lesson for all.

Wonder how all this is going to shake out. Maybe Tim Hardaway senior can be a model, although of course all he did was SAY homophobic things.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

 

[Rastapopoulos]

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

Wait...this is real? I read the first few posts super fast and thought it was a joke.

She's good enough, she's smart enough and gosh darnit I WANNA JUMP HER

 

[Further]

The funny thing is, the Left is in a bit of a quandary here. On the one hand, liberals are supposed to believe in redemption. Not the "come to Jesus" bullshit, but actually redeeming yourself by confronting yourself and acknowledging you did wrong and must change. That's part of why we oppose capital punishment and are in general in favor of reform as the justification for punishment, and thus allowing inmates to take college classes, etc. And these are people who may have raped and murdered people.

But on the other, we want to acknowledge that a lot of what went on before was just out-and-out wrong, and creeps and lechers need to go DOWN as a lesson for all.

Wonder how all this is going to shake out. Maybe Tim Hardaway senior can be a model, although of course all he did was SAY homophobic things.

It's why I was fairly quick after reading Louie CK's apology to say that 1)what he did was disgusting and wrong, and that 2) I will be able to forgive him because he showed true contrition and his statement seemed honest and sincere.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Not good enough, Al:

 

[Rastapopoulos]

It's why I was fairly quick after reading Louie CK's apology to say that 1)what he did was disgusting and wrong, and that 2) I will be able to forgive him because he showed true contrition and his statement seemed honest and sincere.

Thing is, it's not really up to YOU to forgive him...

 

[Further]

I'm on board with all accusations of the like being investigated. I just don't want pre-determined outcomes.

 

[Further]

Thing is, it's not really up to YOU to forgive him...

It is for me.

 

[riverman]

The power base in DC will come down to who's left after they get rid of the creeps.....now we'll see if we have 3 decent humans left to vote in Congress or the Senate when all said and done ....I never thought Franken was funny either

 

[e_blazer]

It's crazy that some of the first thoughts that seem to go through folk's heads when one of these things gets revealed is either, "What a piece of crap. Of course people on that side of the political spectrum are creeps"; or "What a piece of crap. Damn, and he's on my side of the political spectrum. How do I deal with this?" It would be enough just to stop with, "What a piece of crap." Sexism, misogyny, and perv behavior aren't political traits, they're just plain sick behavior.

 

[riverman]

Sexism, misogyny, and perv behavior aren't political traits,

In Al's case..this was probably before his political career but fact is...no matter your political leanings...power and fame give false senses of entitlement to all these men.