Exclusive All things Amen Thompson

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BIG Q said:
Listen, one and doners make up the vast, vast majority of NBA All Stars these days, going back to when the NBA changed up the draft to force kids into college for a year or to the G-League or other professional league for a year. No true rhyme or reason for it. Kobe, KG and many others would have been one and doners had they not be allowed to be drafted straight out of high school. That avenue is now closed. I guarandamntee your boy Dame would have been a one and doner too, had he had the ability. But he was an underwhelming recruit that only had one D1 scholarship offer I believe. And he made the most of it. He needed the extra years to develop. I don't know if it was athletically, his frame, his shot, his handles or even if he had to mature mentally. But Dame was not ready to be drafted after one season of college ball. No big deal. Get off of it. It is asinine to continue playing that being a one and doner is a bad thing. It's not. It lets the player that has been working on his game since exiting the womb to get paid quicker and earn more service time towards a future NBA pension. God bless them. Only needing one year o college suggests they have done everything they need to to impress tome very smart and very rich people to invest in them. Dame needed four years and it gave him the chip on his shoulder to be where he is now, a true star of the league. The only thing tiresome is that they players are being denied the ability to fully utilize a free market system and go pro when they are ready, and not be subjected to an arbitrary salary cap. Can you imagine the coin Jordan would've gotten if not for a salary cap. Blank check. One and doning is not tiresome, it is actually oppressive. Hah!
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The majority of one & doners don't turn into anything close to the special talents you listed. Many might have been better served by finishing out their scholarship , and getting a degree. And with NIL , players who show promise do get paid to play in school now. And most one and doners, don't have as gorgeous a shot and release as Dame does. Or will ever develop it. That thing is a Gift from God.
 
I am coming around to Amen. Honestly, I would be happy with him or Scoot or Miller. I can see a long-term benefit for each.

But since this is an Amen thread....those who commented about the flexibility of Amen are winning me over. When you have a wing who can potentially guard a SF on D and who can be your PG on O, it really makes it easier to surround him with shooters. There are a lot of combo guards out there who can shoot but really can't effectively run an offense, especially come playoff time when the defenses are turned up a notch. So having a guy like Amen for the long term makes sense.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Not necessarily. If Scoot drops and we know Houston wants him, we could leverage a little value out of them. You don’t tell them you actually think Amen is better or whatever.
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There’s a big advantage to being one of the two teams Scoot works out for. Amen and Ausar will be working out with multiple teams. Any leaks stating Scoot wow’d us and CHA, and that might be what pushes GMs to give up parts of their future for him. #5 begins to look interesting, bringing back Harden makes me think Whitmore is the better fit for HOU. If DET even considers giving up Duren, we have to entertain it.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
I am coming around to Amen. Honestly, I would be happy with him or Scoot or Miller. I can see a long-term benefit for each.

But since this is an Amen thread....those who commented about the flexibility of Amen are winning me over. When you have a wing who can potentially guard a SF on D and who can be your PG on O, it really makes it easier to surround him with shooters. There are a lot of combo guards out there who can shoot but really can't effectively run an offense, especially come playoff time when the defenses are turned up a notch. So having a guy like Amen for the long term makes sense.
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He ultimately makes our roster easier to build in his prime as well.

Two 3-D wings would give us the tallest lineup in the league and the most athletic backcourt. But there’s also the ability for us to find a good two way PG and one 3-D wing. C becomes increasingly easier to find. If Dereck Lively is a guy Schmitz identifies as a foundational piece to a defense, we have assets to be able to get him at the end of the night. If not him, Schmitz will find an athletic defensive C in the future.
 
BankTeller said:
Amen fans: is trading down to #6 worth the risk of missing out on Amen?

Based on going through other team’s forums, there’s a chance Amen could slip all the way to #6. At #4, there’s a chance they draft Whitmore to play with Harden and Green. A lot of HOU fans seem to like him. At #5, DET fans believe Amen is a bad fit and believe Hendricks or Whitmore or Walker are better fits.

The goal on draft day for me would be to get Amen and also add other pieces to our future. If DET was willing to give up Duren, I would take it. I think ORL is the natural trade partner. Not sure, if we could get Wagner, but #6, #11, and WCJ would be a bare minimum return. I like Ausar enough that I would take the risk and settle with Ausar and develop him exactly how I would develop Amen. Curious what others would have to say to that.
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It is absolutely worth the risk imo. If Amen is gone, I take Ausar. I actually think Ausar will be better. Not as many highlight dunks, but a better all around player. I don't see the gap between 2-8 or 9 to be nearly as wide as everyone else. I really don't get the love for Scoot. He is pretty one dimensional imo. I think the TT's can be Scoot + much better D, better passers, better rebounders, more unselfish at running an offense. If moving to 6 gets us 11 and/or Wagner or WCJ, I would be all over it. Add Ant to get 3 of those 4 and I would be elated. I imagine Ant + #3 for #6, #11 and WCJ. Ausar, Hendricks or Lively or Wallace or Hawkins and WCJ would be an amazing start to the draft. I realize it might mean a total rebuild and that's okay. It's the only way to build the roster to make us contenders. We'd still have 23 (Nnaji, Clowney) and 43 (Vukcevic, Sasser, Coulibaly, Tshiebwae), too.
 
BankTeller said:
There’s a big advantage to being one of the two teams Scoot works out for. Amen and Ausar will be working out with multiple teams. Any leaks stating Scoot wow’d us and CHA, and that might be what pushes GMs to give up parts of their future for him. #5 begins to look interesting, bringing back Harden makes me think Whitmore is the better fit for HOU. If DET even considers giving up Duren, we have to entertain it.
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What would be telling is if Scoot eventually works out for Houston. If they want him they will have to work him out.
 
BIG Q said:
What would be telling is if Scoot eventually works out for Houston. If they want him they will have to work him out.
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The better these players workout, the better for the Blazers at #3. If the Blazers draft Scoot or Miller, they have to be great. If other teams want Scoot or Miller, the haul back has to be great. Those are awesome cards the Blazers are holding. Nice, for a change.
 
BIG Q said:
What would be telling is if Scoot eventually works out for Houston. If they want him they will have to work him out.
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Why does Houston have to work him out? If they're convinced enough by his tape they can make the trade without working him out.
 
tykendo said:
The better these players workout, the better for the Blazers at #3. If the Blazers draft Scoot or Miller, they have to be great. If other teams want Scoot or Miller, the haul back has to be great. Those are awesome cards the Blazers are holding. Nice, for a change.
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Its amazing how players are hyped nowadays.
 
Natebishop3 said:
If Thompson had a decent shot I’d be over the moon. But his shot is extremely concerning to me.
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If he had a decent shot, he would be the consensus #2 overall pick, and we wouldn’t even have the possibility to draft him.
 
BIG Q said:
What would be telling is if Scoot eventually works out for Houston. If they want him they will have to work him out.
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he said today he is only working out for Portland and Charlotte.
 
wizenheimer said:
Ben Simmons says hello!
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Ben Simmons when engaged and healthy (not too often) was a helluva player even though he could not shoot and was a mental midget, this guy is an even better athlete and likely better PG and seems to really want it.
 
cheesehoff said:
It is absolutely worth the risk imo. If Amen is gone, I take Ausar. I actually think Ausar will be better. Not as many highlight dunks, but a better all around player. I don't see the gap between 2-8 or 9 to be nearly as wide as everyone else. I really don't get the love for Scoot. He is pretty one dimensional imo. I think the TT's can be Scoot + much better D, better passers, better rebounders, more unselfish at running an offense. If moving to 6 gets us 11 and/or Wagner or WCJ, I would be all over it. Add Ant to get 3 of those 4 and I would be elated. I imagine Ant + #3 for #6, #11 and WCJ. Ausar, Hendricks or Lively or Wallace or Hawkins and WCJ would be an amazing start to the draft. I realize it might mean a total rebuild and that's okay. It's the only way to build the roster to make us contenders. We'd still have 23 (Nnaji, Clowney) and 43 (Vukcevic, Sasser, Coulibaly, Tshiebwae), too.
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It would probably be something like #3 and Nurk for #6, #11, WCJ, And Bol. Ant doesn’t really fit their team—they would be adding Ant to Scoot, Fultz, Anthony, and Suggs.

But I think that #11, #23, and #43 can either add another piece some way. At #11, we can either draft Lively or move us up to draft Hendricks. #23 can help add a SF or be traded for a player that fits the TPE. I think having more than two rookies is a little too many with Dame on the team. There’s enough youth on that squad.

Dame/Ant/Thompson/Mays
Ant/Sharpe/Thybulle/Mays
_____/Thompson/Nas/Thybulle
Grant/Watford/Walker
WCJ/____/Lively/Bol

#23, #43, the TPE, and MLE just need to bring in veterans. If the purpose of getting rid of Ant is to compete, it makes more sense to just keep him and bank on any extra growth. Ant and Grant a big enough contracts to trade for a star wing if one comes up, we have future 2nds to give up to unprotect our pick.
 
Driew said:
Why does Houston have to work him out? If they're convinced enough by his tape they can make the trade without working him out.
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Very risky, but sure, they could.
 
Blazinaway said:
Ben Simmons when engaged and healthy (not too often) was a helluva player even though he could not shoot and was a mental midget, this guy is an even better athlete and likely better PG and seems to really want it.
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Plus, even when healthy, one of the biggest issues Simmons had was lack of aggression offensively and hesitation at attacking the hoop. Amen doesn't seem to have that same hesitation.
 
theprunetang said:
Plus, even when healthy, one of the biggest issues Simmons had was lack of aggression offensively and hesitation at attacking the hoop. Amen doesn't seem to have that same hesitation.
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Simmons has always had that lack of love for basketball concern dating back to college. During his LSU days, people questioned whether he ever wanted to actually be great. Compare that to Amen, who I think will be a great floor general and locker room leader one day. That’s why I hope the goal for the organization is to draft Amen, so he can play under Dame for a few seasons.
 
Hoopguru said:
Its amazing how players are hyped nowadays.
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I know, straight from high school to college with huge NIL deals with having done nothing. Then one and done in college and lotto pick. The truth is, if there wasn't so many every day peoples jobs on the line we wouldn't look so deeply at these guys. Now ball boys, janitors and and office personnel are vested in the success of these players. Look at Bowie over Jordan.
 
BankTeller said:
It would probably be something like #3 and Nurk for #6, #11, WCJ, And Bol. Ant doesn’t really fit their team—they would be adding Ant to Scoot, Fultz, Anthony, and Suggs.

But I think that #11, #23, and #43 can either add another piece some way. At #11, we can either draft Lively or move us up to draft Hendricks. #23 can help add a SF or be traded for a player that fits the TPE. I think having more than two rookies is a little too many with Dame on the team. There’s enough youth on that squad.

Dame/Ant/Thompson/Mays
Ant/Sharpe/Thybulle/Mays
_____/Thompson/Nas/Thybulle
Grant/Watford/Walker
WCJ/____/Lively/Bol

#23, #43, the TPE, and MLE just need to bring in veterans. If the purpose of getting rid of Ant is to compete, it makes more sense to just keep him and bank on any extra growth. Ant and Grant a big enough contracts to trade for a star wing if one comes up, we have future 2nds to give up to unprotect our pick.
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No way i give up # 3 to Orlando without Franz coming back in the deal. Carter Jr. is good, but not great. Can't do it without Wagner.
 
But if you got back Wagner ( need ) , you could get a couple nice talents with the #6 & #11 picks. I like what i see in Lively ( Jarrett Allen?), and Cason Wallace can really defend and his shooting stroke bodes well for him in the future. Ant has a better shooting stroke than any of Orlando's guards. Ant and Scoot would solve their backcourt problem of inconsistent scoring.
 
BIG Q said:
I know, straight from high school to college with huge NIL deals with having done nothing. Then one and done in college and lotto pick. The truth is, if there wasn't so many every day peoples jobs on the line we wouldn't look so deeply at these guys. Now ball boys, janitors and and office personnel are vested in the success of these players. Look at Bowie over Jordan.
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Its all a big marketing machine and Sports Two is part of it.
 
tykendo said:
No way i give up # 3 to Orlando without Franz coming back in the deal. Carter Jr. is good, but not great. Can't do it without Wagner.
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I don’t think we’re going to see ORL give up Wagner to move up to #3. Wagner is for sure one of their two cornerstones. They also have three PG sized guys that play that position on that roster, would be hard to believe ORL giving up on their SF for the next 5+ years for a guy that can only play PG and nothing else, meaning a clogged rotation between 3 guys becomes a clogged rotation of 4 guys.

ORL would really have to be convinced that Scoot is that guy, and also believe there’s no one worth taking at #6 that can improve their team. I don’t know if Nas + #3 + #23 could even get Wagner + #6. If Wagner was on the table with #6, take the deal and then either settle with Ausar or land Amen at #6 on draft night. But that seems like a pipedream.

ORL remains a good trade down partner even if Wagner isn’t included. Getting rid of Nurk’s contract for a cheaper and more reliable C, an intriguing one year rental in Bol, and both lotto picks isn’t a bad settling point.

If we wanted Lively, we could have a C rotation of WCJ/vet C/Lively/Bol and not have to worry about that rotation for a few seasons. #6 will still grab one of the Thompsons.
 
[QUOTE="BankTeller, post: 5527766, member: 30331"

]I don’t think we’re going to see ORL give up Wagner to move up to #3. Wagner is for sure one of their two cornerstones. .[/QUOTE]

I agree.......unless there is someone at #6 that they think they can replace Wagner with by year 2. Which is why I never believed we could get Wagmer and #6. Maybe #11th
 
Pinwheel1 said:
[QUOTE="BankTeller, post: 5527766, member: 30331"

]I don’t think we’re going to see ORL give up Wagner to move up to #3. Wagner is for sure one of their two cornerstones. .
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I agree.......unless there is someone at #6 that they think they can replace Wagner with by year 2. Which is why I never believed we could get Wagmer and #6. Maybe #11th[/QUOTE]
At that point, I’d settle for WCJ, Bol, and the two lotto picks, or see if DET would let go of Duren for #3. My only desire to trade down would be to get other assets in addition to one of the twins, having #11 at our highest pick pretty much takes us out of that range.
 
Watching Amen more and more, imagining all of the ways he can be used.

I seriously think drafting Amen gives Shae the best chance to succeed as a player. We’ve been talking about Shae flashing the potential to be an All-NBA and All-Defense guy, but he has a better opportunity to do that when he eventually doesn’t have to guard the best player every night. Amen is that guy who can take the best player every night, he can also initiate the offense and has the physical gifts to make teams pay when they double Shae.

Dame/Shae/Amen/Grant/Nurk
That lineup has potential to be a great lineup. Between Dame and Amen facilitating the ball, I’d rather Nurk just do the things he’s good at like setting good screens for Dame and Amen, preserving his availability by taking more catch and shoot 3s, and trying to protect the rim. Amen is going to be coming into the league with a reputation for his defensive potential, just let him take the toughest matchup every night with Shae switching on from time to time or bringing in Thybulle to be the POA defender in place of Amen.

Dame/Ant/Amen/Grant/Nurk
If we decide to accept the growing pains early, we can get to a point where Amen is good enough on defense that he starts by the end of the year, even before Shae. Amen as a POA defender, Grant plays help side. Dame, Ant, Grant, and Nurk provide enough shooting for Amen, Amen would immediately be an elevate version of what Winslow lovers though he would be starting at SF.

Dame/Shae/Amen/Grant/Horford
Later in the year, if Amen or Shae show they are ready to be a full time starter, we can find a way to find guys who fit. Horford makes $10m/yr for two years, he’d be a very good backup C for us and if he was ever available.

Amen/Shae/3-D/3-D/Lively
I’ve posted about the potential of this down the line where we have a lineup that locks down the perimeter and at the rim. If Lively were a possibility at the end of draft night, he’d be great as a guy that can catch lobs, protect the rim, cover space well, and possibly be a decent shooter down the line.

PG/Shae/Amen/3-D/C
I find that guards are easier to find than wings. With the size to play SF, Schmitz can just grab the BPA every year to fill out this roster. But with Shae and Amen as the starting backcourt or wing duo, it would be possible to eventually find another electric shooting PG like Curry or Dame and still maintain a defensive identity.
 
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