Exclusive All Things Brandon Miller

[wizenheimer]

okay frowny-face Nostradamus!

STOMP

that isn't me....that's actually been the thinking of at least 4 trade-Dame advocates I've engaged with here. And of course it fits with NBA history. It took Lebron 9 years before his first championship; Giannis 8 years; Jokic is in his 8th season right now. Kawhi won in Toronto in his 8th season.

Curry was the fastest winning in his 6th season, but the Warriors were a unique circumstance and Curry had spent 4 years playing in college; and he was 28 when they won, well into his prime, like all those other guys. It will be 8 years before Sharpe is 28, and there's no guarantee he'll be a top-10 player, or that he'll still be a Blazer

 

[Pinwheel1]

People keep saying this... what if the pick doesn't net us Siakam or Brown or Bridges? We're not going to just dump the pick to dump the pick.

How about Wagner? Would you consider that as dumping the pick? I honestly don't know. I am primarily going off his performance against us, which is not a good measuring stick. (and a few articles about him) But what I saw was a skilled SF who apparently grew after he was drafted. Is he really now 6'10 220?
I don't know if that is true but I like his all-around game. Is he one of those guys you trade for before he blows up?

 

[Natebishop3]

How about Wagner? Would you consider that as dumping the pick? I honestly don't know. I am primarily going off his performance against us, which is not a good measuring stick. (and a few articles about him) But what I saw was a skilled SF who apparently grew after he was drafted. Is he really now 6'10 220?
I don't know if that is true but I like his all-around game. Is he one of those guys you trade for before he blows up?

Just Wagner? Or Wagner and a pick?

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Just Wagner? Or Wagner and a pick?

I feel like it would have to be Wagner+6 for 3+_____ (Nas?), or Wagner+6+11 for 3+Ant. I also wonder if Isaac could/should factor into a potential Orlando deal.

 

[wizenheimer]

People keep saying this... what if the pick doesn't net us Siakam or Brown or Bridges? We're not going to just dump the pick to dump the pick.

I'm obviously in the don't-trade-Dame camp. But even before the lottery I felt that there was a better than even chance Portland would keep the pick. When they got the 3rd pick, I felt that the odds of keeping the pick went up, not down

a lot of factors informed that hunch. One was that the trade value of draft picks is at it's lowest ebb ever because of the blockbuster trades over the last year. Of course, those are generally mid to late 1st round picks being passed over like crazy. It's hard to pin down the value between a 3rd pick and three picks around 22-25. I'd think the 3rd pick has more value, but maybe not. So I've been thinking the asking price for those 3 players you mentioned will be too high, and even though Cronin has been trashed a lot around here, I don't think he's an idiot and the reports are that Toronto was asking way too much for OG before last season's draft and even Dame thought the demands were ridiculous

another factor is the shitty position that Olshey left the Blazers in. If a team is asking for a future first, along with the 3rd, maybe in a bigger trade, in order to have that first to trade the Blazers would likely have to send the 23rd pick to Chicago. To send out one future first would cost Portland two first's and that's expensive. Fucking Olshey

and another factor is Shaedon Sharpe. The Blazer saw up close the value available in a 7th pick. So did Dame. They have to know they might get another player with as much, if not more value than Sharpe.

I don't know how it will play out. Dame may have already asked quietly for a trade. Or, he may never ask for one no matter what. I think the latter is more likely but it's not certain at all

 

[Pinwheel1]

Just Wagner? Or Wagner and a pick?

Sure I want the pick, but let's just say Orlando wants to keep it to replace Wagner. Yes were are talking about trading #3 for what was #8 two years ago.
On paper, it looks like we lose on that deal. But Franz IMO is now a proven player. (and only 21) and #3 is still a risk at this point in time. Not all drafts are created equal.

 

[wizenheimer]

I feel like it would have to be Wagner+6 for 3+_____ (Nas?), or Wagner+6+11 for 3+Ant. I also wonder if Isaac could/should factor into a potential Orlando deal.

Portland has a TPE big enough (Payton) to absorb Wagner's salary. But asking for Wagner + 6 + 11 (which I've seen several times) is too much IMO.

but if Orlando wants Scoot (or Miller) that badly, maybe 3 + 23 for Wagner + 6 + 11. Or even get greedy and make it Wagner + Wagner + 6 + 11. Keep the brother together

or, maybe better, Little + 3 + 23 for Wagner + Bol Bol + 6 + 11. Then, I'd wonder what Nurkic + 11 could fetch; or Ant + 6

I doubt Orlando cooperates with any scenario though unless they are really high on Scoot

 

[Pinwheel1]

Portland has a TPE big enough (Payton) to absorb Wagner's salary. But asking for Wagner + 6 + 11 (which I've seen several times) is too much IMO.

but if Orlando wants Scoot (or Miller) that badly, maybe 3 + 23 for Wagner + 6 + 11. Or even get greedy and make it Wagner + Wagner + 6 + 11. Keep the brother together

or, maybe better, Little + 3 + 23 for Wagner + Bol Bol + 6 + 11. Then, I'd wonder what Nurkic + 11 could fetch; or Ant + 6

I doubt Orlando cooperates with any scenario though unless they are really high on Scoot

I think Mo might be a free agent. So if the brothers want to play together, he could always sign here. (He only made 1.8 last year)

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Portland has a TPE big enough (Payton) to absorb Wagner's salary. But asking for Wagner + 6 + 11 (which I've seen several times) is too much IMO.

I agree that Wagner+6+11 for 3 is too much, which is why I only mentioned that combo in return for 3+Ant...and of course that would be dependent upon Orlando valuing Ant.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

that isn't me....that's actually been the thinking of at least 4 trade-Dame advocates I've engaged with here. And of course it fits with NBA history. It took Lebron 9 years before his first championship; Giannis 8 years; Jokic is in his 8th season right now. Kawhi won in Toronto in his 8th season.

Curry was the fastest winning in his 6th season, but the Warriors were a unique circumstance and Curry had spent 4 years playing in college; and he was 28 when they won, well into his prime, like all those other guys. It will be 8 years before Sharpe is 28, and there's no guarantee he'll be a top-10 player, or that he'll still be a Blazer

Funny how you left out Kawhi winning finals MVP in season 3 - but include him winning it later with Toronto.

Those other eventual MVP players you list all went to a bunch of teams that werent trying to win now. If the Blazers have Dame/Grant/Ant/Sharpe/MLE along with Miller and some more vets they should be trying to win sooner. That sounds more like Kawhi in year 3 then Curry being drafted by a 29 win team, or Jokic being drafted by a 30 win team, or LeBron with a 17 win team.

Yeah those 3 guys all took a long time to contend - but their team were absolute garbage and needed many years to build around them. If the Blazers aim to trade Dame and build with Sharp yes they can do the same longer rebuild - that would be winning titles when Sharpe is 25-28 with Dame out of the league at over 40 years old.

 

[wizenheimer]

Funny how you left out Kawhi winning finals MVP in season 3 - but include him winning it later with Toronto.

I must have missed it...where is Portland's Tim Duncan? Greg Popovich? Tony Parker? Manu Ginobli? Where are Portland's 4 previous championships with the same group of guys surrounding Kawhi that year?

 

[STOMP]

that isn't me....that's actually been the thinking of at least 4 trade-Dame advocates I've engaged with here. And of course it fits with NBA history. It took Lebron 9 years before his first championship; Giannis 8 years; Jokic is in his 8th season right now. Kawhi won in Toronto in his 8th season.

Curry was the fastest winning in his 6th season, but the Warriors were a unique circumstance and Curry had spent 4 years playing in college; and he was 28 when they won, well into his prime, like all those other guys. It will be 8 years before Sharpe is 28, and there's no guarantee he'll be a top-10 player, or that he'll still be a Blazer

how long did it take Magic or Wade? Seriously dude, you're being laughably ridiculous claiming anything that far out and backing up your BS with only examples that fit your narative is doubling down on stupid. Stop

STOMP

 

[wizenheimer]

how long did it take Magic or Wade? Seriously dude, you're being laughably ridiculous claiming anything that far out and backing up your BS with only examples that fit your narative is doubling down on stupid. Stop
STOMP

you really have reading comprehension difficulties sometimes

I never said the examples I gave were the only relevant examples. Just the most recent, and what I said was factual

as to your two examples...how many Magic Johnsons do you see in the next 3 or 4 drafts that Portland can land? And Magic's teammates were Kareem, who averaged 25-11-5, Norm Nixon who averaged 18 points and 8 assists, Jamal Wilkes who averaged averaged 20 & 6, plus Michael Cooper and Spenser Haywood. That roster had 36 all-star games and 9 MVP awards. Good luck to Portland putting together a similar roster

as for DWade, he didn't win shit till Shaq arrived; and after Shaq left he didn't wins shit till Lebron and Bosh arrived.

your two examples are rather absurd in the context of calling mine bullshit. It would be a tall damn argument to claim Shaedon Sharpe and Scoot/Miller could win a title earlier than Lebron and Giannis did.

 

[STOMP]

you really have reading comprehension difficulties sometimes

Did I read it wrong when you stated... "If Portland keeps the pick it will still be 6-7 years before the Blazers are contenders; maybe longer."? Because I've read it several times, even a couple where I didn't lol as I was doing so. There wasn't any qualifier that followed where you tried to temper down the know it all lunacy. You're claiming to know whats going to happen way into the future... which is cuckoo for cocoa puffs

as to your two examples...how many Magic Johnsons do you see in the next 3 or 4 drafts that Portland can land? And Magic's teammates were Kareem, who averaged 25-11-5, Norm Nixon who averaged 18 points and 8 assists, Jamal Wilkes who averaged averaged 20 & 6, plus Michael Cooper and Spenser Haywood. That roster had 36 all-star games and 9 MVP awards. Good luck to Portland putting together a similar roster

as for DWade, he didn't win shit till Shaq arrived; and after Shaq left he didn't wins shit till Lebron and Bosh arrived.

Sorry not sorry I posted examples off the top of my head that ran counter to your silly nonsense & no I won't get off your lawn angry man. No one knows what Portland will do this offseason let alone how good or bad their next few picks will turn out to be or if they trade them all. Thats part of why sports are the ultimate reality show... no one knows the outcome of games let alone seasons into the future and often things happen that no one saw coming. Hell, I live in the Bay Area and 4-5 years in absolutely no one was thinking Curry would turn into an all time talent.

you seem to know as little about DWade as the rest of us mere mortals do about the future. His rookie season he led the Heat to the playoffs for the first time in 3 seasons before losing in the 2nd round. That roster sucked and it was before Shaq arrived. Your didn't win shit claim... dead on arrival. His second season he led them to the Eastern conference finals. In his 3rd year at the ripe old age of 24 he carried them to 1st place in the East (not 33 year old fat Shaq who only played 59 games) & to the championship where was named the MVP after posting some of the most impressive stat lines this side of Wilt. Those rosters he was leading were not good. Besides him, what talent they featured was well on the wrong side of 30.

No one wins a championship by themselves, but he came about as close as any player I've ever seen. That he lasted until the 5th pick is another testament to people not knowing whats going to happen until it does. Calm down, grab some popcorn and enjoy watching the future unfold.

STOMP

 

[wizenheimer]

Did I read it wrong when you stated... "If Portland keeps the pick it will still be 6-7 years before the Blazers are contenders; maybe longer."? Because I've read it several times, even a couple where I didn't lol as I was doing so. There wasn't any qualifier that followed where you tried to temper down the know it all lunacy. You're claiming to know whats going to happen way into the future... which is cuckoo for cocoa puffs


Sorry not sorry I posted examples off the top of my head that ran counter to your silly nonsense & no I won't get off your lawn angry man. No one knows what Portland will do this offseason let alone how good or bad their next few picks will turn out to be or if they trade them all. Thats part of why sports are the ultimate reality show... no one knows the outcome of games let alone seasons into the future and often things happen that no one saw coming. Hell, I live in the Bay Area and 4-5 years in absolutely no one was thinking Curry would turn into an all time talent.

you seem to know as little about DWade as the rest of us mere mortals do about the future. His rookie season he led the Heat to the playoffs for the first time in 3 seasons before losing in the 2nd round. That roster sucked and it was before Shaq arrived. Your didn't win shit claim... dead on arrival. His second season he led them to the Eastern conference finals. In his 3rd year at the ripe old age of 24 he carried them to 1st place in the East (not 33 year old fat Shaq who only played 59 games) & to the championship where was named the MVP after posting some of the most impressive stat lines this side of Wilt. Those rosters he was leading were not good. Besides him, what talent they featured was well on the wrong side of 30.

No one wins a championship by themselves, but he came about as close as any player I've ever seen. That he lasted until the 5th pick is another testament to people no knowing whats going to happen until it does. Calm down and enjoy watching the future unfold.

STOMP

when Wade was a rookie, some of his teammates were Lamar Odom, Eddie Jones (3 time all-star), Brian Grant, Rafer Allston, and Caron Butler. The next season, "Fat Shaq" arrived and averaged 23, 10, & 3 and posted a PER of 27.0; while Wade averaged 24, 5 & 7 and posted a PER of 23.1. Shaq was an all-star that season. And he was an all-star the next season when the Heat won the title.

and Wade proved his Finals MVP dominance over the next 4 seasons in the playoffs when the Heat went:

0-4 first round exit
Lottery with a 15-67 record when Wade played 51 games
3-4 first round exit
1-4 first round exit

so, 4-12 with one year in the lottery. I guess maybe even a superstar needs great teammates

that was Wade in his prime, then Lebron & Bosh arrived. And by the way, Wade was 22 as a rookie after 2 seasons at Marquette, not 19 with no NCAA experience like Sharpe and Scoot.
************************************************************

but this is a dumb pointless argument

to get back on track...I said trading Dame and moving to Sharpe/Scoot as the new core would take 6 or 7 years before Portland could truly contend; and that's if all things went right. There are no Duncan-Parker-Manu or Kareem-Wilkes-Nixon combos in Portland just waiting on 19 year old Sharpe and Scoot to mature. There is no top-5 all time dominant C's coming to Portland in the next 3-4 seasons. Portland would be starting from scratch after trading Dame and the draft assets from the trade might not even materialize till 4 or 5 years out

but I said 6 or 7 years out at earliest, if Dame is traded this summer. And guess what, I'll say it again

 

[STOMP]

when Wade was a rookie, some of his teammates were Lamar Odom, Eddie Jones (3 time all-star), Brian Grant, Rafer Allston, and Caron Butler. The next season, "Fat Shaq" arrived and averaged 23, 10, & 3 and posted a PER of 27.0; while Wade averaged 24, 5 & 7 and posted a PER of 23.1. Shaq was an all-star that season. And he was an all-star the next season when the Heat won the title.
and Wade proved his Finals MVP dominance over the next 4 seasons in the playoffs when the Heat went:

0-4 first round exit
Lottery with a 15-67 record when Wade played 51 games
3-4 first round exit
1-4 first round exit

so, 4-12 with one year in the lottery. I guess maybe even a superstar needs great teammates

that was Wade in his prime, then Lebron & Bosh arrived. And by the way, Wade was 22 as a rookie after 2 seasons at Marquette, not 19 with no NCAA experience like Sharpe and Scoot.
but this is a dumb pointless argument

You are moving the goal posts again. You stated he never won shit before Shaq arrived which wasn't until his 2nd year. Yet clearly he won in his rookie year. What does Sharpe and/or Scoot have to do with this conversation? I've not mentioned either of them. You seem confused recalling which conversation you're in and what's been or being talked about just spewing more nonsense. Those awesome teammates of Dwayne's you're lauding missed the playoffs entirely the year prior without him winning 25 games. Brian Grant completely sucked Wade's rookie year. Skip to my Lou... who are you kidding?

to get back on track...I said trading Dame and moving to Sharpe/Scoot as the new core would take 6 or 7 years before Portland could truly contend; and that's if all things went right. There are no Duncan-Parker-Manu or Kareem-Wilkes-Nixon combos in Portland just waiting on 19 year old Sharpe and Scoot to mature. There is no top-5 all time dominant C's coming to Portland in the next 3-4 seasons. Portland would be starting from scratch after trading Dame and the draft assets from the trade might not even materialize till 4 or 5 years out

but I said 6 or 7 years out at earliest, if Dame is traded this summer. And guess what, I'll say it again

I relayed your quote a couple times & yeah my comprehension on it was perfecto. Cuckoo for crazy puffs claims. Unlike you, I'm well aware and accept that you, I & everyone else don't know what will happen in the future. But by all means, more ridiculous claims please... then getting really angry about others laughing is the cherry on top

STOMP

 

[wizenheimer]

I relayed your quote a couple times & yeah my comprehension on it was perfecto. Cuckoo for crazy puffs claims. Unlike you, I'm well aware and accept that you, I & everyone else don't know what will happen in the future. But by all means, more ridiculous claims please... then getting really angry about others laughing is the cherry on top

STOMP

I didn't just post what I posted for no reason in a thread AND forum that has been obsessed with the discussion about the advisability of trading Dame and rebuilding with youth via draft picks. You can keep pretending I did, but you like to come in to any discussion in such a hot and bothered fashion maybe your outrage is causing myopia or dementia

so, in that context I said something about how long it could take Portland to build up to a contender after trading Dame. That is actually on-topic for most threads here. I said 6 or 7 years, and offered the timelines of Lebron, Giannis, Curry, etc. In you come in your usual ballistic manner yammering about how none of us can know what the future holds...big duhhhh on that by the way. But if the future is uncertain, and shouldn't be guessed about, then just about every thread here should be locked because that's about all we're talking about here...the future of Dame & Blazers; future of Ant & Nurkic based upon what they've done and what Portland needs; what kind of players Scoot, Miller, Amen will be; future of Sharpe; future of Chauncey; future of Jody's ownership. It's all guesswork entertainment and for you to get so belligerent about my guesswork is nuts

and as to that guesswork that it would take 6-7 years, at best, if everything goes right, to become a contender after trading Dame...why the hell is that so out there and crazy?

the last time Portland was a contender was in 2000. That was 23 years ago. 23 years, 9 of which were in the lottery; 23 years 11 of which ended with 1st round exits; 23 years without even 1 win in the conference finals. There was a 4 year period when Portland had, in succession, the 3rd, 2nd, 6th, 1st, & 11th picks. All that and not even a solid hint at maybe a contender in the (wait for it!) future. 10 lottery picks, no contender. 18 of those 23 years they had an owner who was more than willing to spend whatever it took to be a contender. Didn't succeed

so that leaves us, here today, talking about the future of one of the only two all-star level players Portland has added in those 23 years (the other left in free agency). Yet I'm crazy one for for suggesting that after trading Dame it might take 6-7 years to build a contender from the current talent lacking roster when it couldn't be done over the previous 23 years with an owner who obviously was more invested in winning than the current one. Yeah, such a dumb equation I constructed

 

[Hoopguru]

Stomp & Wiz need to ramp up their sex lives!

 

[wizenheimer]

Stomp & Wiz need to ramp up their sex lives!

my heart won't survive the little blue pills

 

[Hoopguru]

my heart won't survive the little blue pills

How many do you take at once?
Anything over three at a wack is too much!

 

[wizenheimer]

How many do you take at once?
Anything over three at a wack is too much!

it's better to go pill-less and wack-less if you catch my drift. Been there...done that...too old. The upside of apathy!

 

[Natebishop3]

I want Miller. I'm hoping that Charlotte takes Scoot. I think if Miller falls to us, we can draft him and then move Simons for something useful.

Dame
Sharpe
Miller
Grant
Nurk

Maybe we send out Simons for another wing and Miller could be a backup 3/4 off the bench. Something to appease Dame.

Simons/Little for DeRozan/Caruso?

 

[blazerfan11]

JB hoops has Brandon Miller as the 6th best prospect.
FF to 23:00 for his explanation. Mainly, effectiveness vs NBA size/strength.

 

[TBpup]

how long did it take Magic or Wade? Seriously dude, you're being laughably ridiculous claiming anything that far out and backing up your BS with only examples that fit your narative is doubling down on stupid. Stop

STOMP

Players can contribute earlier....agreed. Some guy named Bill Walton was drafted in '74 and won a title in '77.

 

[theprunetang]

JB hoops has Brandon Miller as the 6th best prospect.
FF to 23:00 for his explanation. Mainly, effectiveness vs NBA size/strength.

I'm honestly not buying it. The dude is going to beast, in my estimation. I think folks around here are looking a gift horse in the mouth a little bit.

 

[wizenheimer]

Players can contribute earlier....agreed. Some guy named Bill Walton was drafted in '74 and won a title in '77.

I was not talking about player contributions and how soon that could happen. I was talking about how soon Portland could realistically become a contender after trading Dame. Blazers don't have Bill Walton who was 3 times the NCAA player of the year, or the ABA dispersal draft, or 10 rounds of the NBA draft; They don't have DWade and Shaq; They don't have Kareem, Norm Nixon, Jamal Wilkes or Michael Cooper on the roster like Magic had. They don't have Duncan, Parker, & Ginobli like Kawhi had

Bill Walton was 25 when the Blazers won and he played 4 years at UCLA. Sharpe & Scoot are 19

what the have is Sharpe, maybe Scoot or Miller or Amen and some average and below average role players. They aren't going to build a contender in 3 years. Or 4 years.

 

[Natebishop3]

JB hoops has Brandon Miller as the 6th best prospect.
FF to 23:00 for his explanation. Mainly, effectiveness vs NBA size/strength.

That’s absurd.

 

[Freshtown]

A really thorough scouting report on Miller from the Dunc’d on pod. FWIW, Nate Duncan had Shaedon Sharpe #1 on his board last year.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Efficient scorer who likes defense….why don’t we like him again? Because of a delusional 33 year old pg that thinks we are 1 player away?

When did he say we were 1 player away?

 

[Phatguysrule]

Reasonable conclusion from his demands of trading the pick for a veteran.

If Dame doesn't think we're a veteran away - then your saying he is demanding a veteran to get no chance to win? That makes even less sense and shows Dame is worse than just delusional.

Dame said he didn't want to start a rebuilding process. He wants to make moves to win. He wants to be more competitive every year.