All things Jalen Duren

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Mediocre Man said:
This is completely fair, but aren’t all the players we could get at 7 a project?
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Absolutely, but the operative word is "center."

This isn't a center's game anymore. If we are going to develop someone, I'd rather it be someone with the potential to be a superstar wing.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Absolutely, but the operative word is "center."

This isn't a center's game anymore. If we are going to develop someone, I'd rather it be someone with the potential to be a superstar wing.
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I get it. Development of a freak athletic defensive big with a good motor and who is a good passer seems different than your average “center.” It’s not a centers game offensively, but if you can guard the 3 ball knowing there is a dominant rim protector behind you, that IS what todays game is. Pick and roll, finishing at the rim, crashing the boards, is the game today. That’s what he does offensively. He won’t demand the ball or get lazy on D like Nurk if he doesn’t touch the ball. I feel this way about Sochan also

Like I said though, I get the point you’re making, but I think he fits todays game
 
Natebishop3 said:
Absolutely, but the operative word is "center."

This isn't a center's game anymore. If we are going to develop someone, I'd rather it be someone with the potential to be a superstar wing.
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The two players that received the most MVP votes were centers. Center Nikola Jokic was the winner for the second year in a row.
A superstar center can have as big an impact in today's game as a superstar wing.
 
blazerfan11 said:
The two players that received the most MVP votes were centers. Center Nikola Jokic was the winner for the second year in a row.
A superstar center can have as big an impact in today's game as a superstar wing.
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duren is not jokic or embiid. He probably will never be that skilled. If Duren showed that kinda skill, he would not be projected out of the top 3.

And if you go the non-skilled athletic freak big route, he's not anywhere close to as nimble as dwight was early in his career.

man some of these comps...
 
blazerfan11 said:
The two players that received the most MVP votes were centers. Center Nikola Jokic was the winner for the second year in a row.
A superstar center can have as big an impact in today's game as a superstar wing.
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How far did those guys get this year? How many rings they got? When is the last time a team won a title with a center as their best player?
 
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Natebishop3 said:
How far did those guys get this year? How many rings they got? When is the last time a team won a title with a center as their best player?
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I dont think that matters. If a prospect like Embiid were in this draft, hed be going #1 without question. Duren doesnt compare in the slightest to Embiid.
 
I just find it interesting that we are clearly looking to be a better defensive team and Duren has an argument at having the highest defensive ceiling in this class. Even the great defensive wing prospects take 1 to 2 years to bring positive value on that end and I don't see anybody in the OG/Mikal mold in that regard. Tari and Sochan have an argument to be at that level, but both of those guys come with far more offensive question marks than those guys had.
 
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illmatic99 said:
I dont think that matters. If a prospect like Embiid were in this draft, hed be going #1 without question. Duren doesnt compare in the slightest to Embiid.
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It matters because those guys are amazing but they can’t lift up their teams. So I really don’t want to use this pick on a center that’s not even remotely as good as those guys.
 
Natebishop3 said:
It matters because those guys are amazing but they can’t lift up their teams. So I really don’t want to use this pick on a center that’s not even remotely as good as those guys.
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Youre saying if an embiid level prospect was in this draft... You would not draft him?
 
To be clear, I said I didn’t want to draft a project center. I also said that if I have to choose between developing a center and a wing, I would choose the wing based on this NBA.

Embiid wasn’t a project coming out of college. He was injured though. But Duren isn’t Embiid or Jokic. And my point was that if those guys can’t be the best players on their teams and win it all, what hope does Duren have? I’d rather take a flyer on Sharp or Daniels.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Absolutely, but the operative word is "center."

This isn't a center's game anymore. If we are going to develop someone, I'd rather it be someone with the potential to be a superstar wing.
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what if you don't feel the wings who'll be around when you're picking have that sort of potential?

I'm not going into a draft wanting a particular position, I want the BPA. The star. Locking in on current team need has produced so many draft blunders.

Yes the days of the plodding big man have largely passed but there still important roles to be played for Bigs it's just whats valued is changing. The game used to be played inside out, but now its outside in with teams working for clean 3 point looks. But the rim still needs to be guarded. Long sprayed rebounds from all the 3 point shots need to be battled over, tapped & gathered. Athletic ability and the versatility to switch onto all those great wings makes a team's D so much more effective. A team with a legit shotblocker or two can also sell out better on 3 point shooters knowing they've got that guy behind them. These are the types of Bigs on the teams in the finals. Defense still wins championships & these are the two top ranked defensive teams in the league.

STOMP
 
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STOMP said:
what if you don't feel the wings who'll be around when you're picking have that sort of potential?

I'm not going into a draft wanting a particular position, I want the BPA. The star. Locking in on current team need has produced so many draft blunders.

Yes the days of the plodding big man have largely passed but there still important roles to be played for Bigs it's just whats valued is changing. The game used to be played inside out, but now its outside in with teams working for clean 3 point looks. But the rim still needs to be guarded. Long sprayed rebounds from all the 3 point shots need to be battled over, tapped & gathered. Athletic ability and the versatility to switch onto all those great wings makes a team's D so much more effective. A team with a legit shotblocker or two can also sell out better on 3 point shooters knowing they've got that guy behind them. These are the types of Bigs on the teams in the finals. Defense still wins championships & these are the two top ranked defensive teams in the league.

STOMP
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These teams also have a ton of good point-of-attack defenders, meanwhile the Blazers only have one worth playing. They've failed year-after-year to address the forward spots and now are in position to add there. Instead, people want another project C who probably won't be ready to contribute to a winning team for multiple years when we already have a center?

I don't understand. If Duren was a sure thing, fine. But he's not. I've seen too many bigs like him end up being mediocre (Nerlens Noel, anyone?).

Looking back through previous drafts, bigs need to be really good in two of these or absolutely elite in one out of passing, shooting, and defense. Those are the biggest deciding factors for bigs, and Duren's only shown very sporadic flashes of shooting and passing. Meanwhile, he has the tools but it's a safer bet to assume he's not going to be a top 5 defensive big at some point.

Yes, he could be great, just like any of the top 15 prospects in this draft, however he's a bigger risk than some seem to think, and there are forwards that we need who already have positive traits that fit in seamlessly into the NBA.

You only need one rim protector, but you need multiple point-of-attack defenders. A premium should be placed on wings for that reason alone.
 
illmatic99 said:
duren is not jokic or embiid. He probably will never be that skilled. If Duren showed that kinda skill, he would not be projected out of the top 3.

And if you go the non-skilled athletic freak big route, he's not anywhere close to as nimble as dwight was early in his career.

man some of these comps...
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What make you say he’s not as nimble as Dwight?
 
illmatic99 said:
duren is not jokic or embiid. He probably will never be that skilled. If Duren showed that kinda skill, he would not be projected out of the top 3.

And if you go the non-skilled athletic freak big route, he's not anywhere close to as nimble as dwight was early in his career.

man some of these comps...
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Is Hasheem Thabeet a better comp?

Maybe Bismack Biyombo?

I don't want to give him too much credit
 
PtldPlatypus said:
:lol:

Actually, Biyombo might not be too far off, although Duren seems to have much better hands.
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Lol. There are definitely some stylistic similarities. But yeah way better hands, more skilled...i could go on I don't want to hype him up too much.
 
Natebishop3 said:
How far did those guys get this year? How many rings they got? When is the last time a team won a title with a center as their best player?
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Duren reminds me more of Bam, than Jokic or Embiid. Bam took a few years to develop to what he is now. I have no idea if
Duren can reach that level, but that is the type of center we will eventually need. Having said that I would rather have a 2 way PF from this draft if there is one at 7.
 
BonesJones said:
These teams also have a ton of good point-of-attack defenders, meanwhile the Blazers only have one worth playing. They've failed year-after-year to address the forward spots and now are in position to add there. Instead, people want another project C who probably won't be ready to contribute to a winning team for multiple years when we already have a center?
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A plodding center who good teams like the Celtics iso all night long. Where is the logic behind sticking with that IF you view a serious upgrade as available. Siting Nurk reminds me of passing on Chris Paul because we've got Sebastian Telfair so lets go with the star wing from a Seattle HS where we have a more urgent need.

Yes Portland's current forwards suck even more, which is why I don't understand the rush of needing a draftee to be ready immediately. This team is multiple good players and years away from being a contender, they've got the time. If management thinks Daniels or whoever is viewed as the BPA with the highest ceiling, fine. I don't agree and see him more as a SG then SF, but he's one of the others I'd be excited to add. But I was answering the question of why they wouldn't want to develop a superstar wing from this draft instead of a Center... I don't see the wings likely available at #7 having the same sort of potential.

Nerlens Noel, anyone?
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I get that siting an example of a high draft pick who flamed out suits the purpose of degrading the guy being debated, but how about you choose someone remotely similar? Duren is at least a half size bigger then Noel. His shot mechanics are not broken and it's unlikely that he misses the first year of NBA play recovering from a serious knee injury. Being a physical specimen is largely why Duren is a top prospect, the promise of what he could become. Unfortunately Noel's NBA story is of a promising player who's career was decimated by knee and foot injuries.

STOMP
 
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I just hope the team upgrades at whatever position they draft at, and don't do a trade out of desperation. Well, another trade out of desperation.
 
illmatic99 said:
duren is not jokic or embiid. He probably will never be that skilled. If Duren showed that kinda skill, he would not be projected out of the top 3.
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Remind me where Jokic was picked? He must not have showed enough of those skills pre-draft, either.

illmatic99 said:
Duren doesnt compare in the slightest to Embiid.
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Good, maybe he'll be durable. :)

Natebishop3 said:
It matters because those guys are amazing but they can’t lift up their teams. So I really don’t want to use this pick on a center that’s not even remotely as good as those guys.
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Can't lift up their teams? Sure seems like Jokic and Embiid had pretty mediocre rosters around them and both teams were still considered among the contenders. Take those two guys off Denver and Philly, and you're probably looking at the two worst records in the league. Winning a championship isn't the singular measurement of success.

Natebishop3 said:
And my point was that if those guys can’t be the best players on their teams and win it all, what hope does Duren have?
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Haven't and can't are two very different concepts.
 
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