Allen Crabbe

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No, I don't think pairing him with anyone will help. The guy screwed over the L*kers, demanded to be THE man, and was unwanted in Houston after a while.

Atlanta is imploding right now. Lost 6 in a row and 9 of 10.

'Screwing over the Lakers makes him a hero, not a villain in my book. He only wanted out of HOU his final year there playing with a prima donna teammates and a moron for a coach. I'd want out, too. Go back and read the clutchfans board from last season. The vast majority of the HOU fans were blaming the chemistry issues on Harden.

And you blame Dwight, not the fact the Millsap is out injured and they don't really have anyone else that can score?

BNM
 
What's your point? Crabbe is a good 3 point shooter. It doesn't matter if some other people are better. The guy can fucking shoot.

My point is, the guys you mentioned aren't, in general, getting more shots than Crabbe. They just make more of the ones they get.

BNM
 
'Screwing over the Lakers makes him a hero, not a villain in my book. He only wanted out of HOU his final year there playing with a prima donna teammates and a moron for a coach. I'd want out, too. Go back and read the clutchfans board from last season. The vast majority of the HOU fans were blaming the chemistry issues on Harden.

And you blame Dwight, not the fact the Millsap is out injured and they don't really have anyone else that can score?

BNM

Franchise players step up.
 
Franchise players step up.

He wasn't the franchise player in LA (some guy named Kobe was). He wasn't the franchise player in HOU (Harden was and the coaching staff and management made that VERY clear) and he wouldn't be the franchise guy in POR (we have a guy named Lillard). The only time he was ever the franchise player was when he was in ORL when he led them to the finals and was 3-time DPOY.

BNM
 
He wasn't the franchise player in LA (some guy named Kobe was). He wasn't the franchise player in HOU (Harden was and the coaching staff and management made that VERY clear) and he wouldn't be the franchise guy in POR (we have a guy named Lillard). The only time he was ever the franchise player was when he was in ORL when he led them to the finals and was 3-time DPOY.

BNM
He thinks he's the franchise player.

http://thelab.bleacherreport.com/would-you-pay-dwight-howard-31-million/

Howard—an eight-time All-Star and three-time Defensive Player of the Year—is about to enter free agency and based on his resume should be one of the most coveted players on the market, right after Oklahoma City's Kevin Durant.

He won't be.

"I wouldn't sign him," said an executive with a Western Conference playoff team, expressing a view that's more common than one might expect.

"A gamble," said a veteran Eastern Conference general manager.

It's not that Howard is a health risk, though he's had his share of injuries.

It's not that his skills and athleticism have eroded. He's still a dominant defender when engaged.

It's just that Howard isn't always engaged, or serious enough or accepting of his limitations.

Howard views himself as a primary scorer and a franchise star, while the rest of the NBA views him as a third option who should focus on defense.

That disconnect, and Howard's ingrained reputation as court jester, make his free agency uniquely complex. He won't be the biggest star on the market. He might be the most fascinating, and the riskiest.

Some team will sign Howard this month, for many millions of dollars, banking on the belief that the grinning, dunking, shot-blocking 6'11" behemoth can be a key player on a contender.
 
He thinks he's the franchise player.

http://thelab.bleacherreport.com/would-you-pay-dwight-howard-31-million/

Howard—an eight-time All-Star and three-time Defensive Player of the Year—is about to enter free agency and based on his resume should be one of the most coveted players on the market, right after Oklahoma City's Kevin Durant.

He won't be.

"I wouldn't sign him," said an executive with a Western Conference playoff team, expressing a view that's more common than one might expect.

"A gamble," said a veteran Eastern Conference general manager.

It's not that Howard is a health risk, though he's had his share of injuries.

It's not that his skills and athleticism have eroded. He's still a dominant defender when engaged.

It's just that Howard isn't always engaged, or serious enough or accepting of his limitations.

Howard views himself as a primary scorer and a franchise star, while the rest of the NBA views him as a third option who should focus on defense.

That disconnect, and Howard's ingrained reputation as court jester, make his free agency uniquely complex. He won't be the biggest star on the market. He might be the most fascinating, and the riskiest.

Some team will sign Howard this month, for many millions of dollars, banking on the belief that the grinning, dunking, shot-blocking 6'11" behemoth can be a key player on a contender.
I think Lebron is the only person he would take a back seat to.
 
There isn't a single quote from Howard in that article.

BNM
There were plenty of those quotes before the L*kers traded for him. He wouldn't accept a trade to the Bulls to be 2nd fiddle to Rose. He wanted the next team to be HIS team.
 
There were plenty of those quotes before the L*kers traded for him. He wouldn't accept a trade to the Bulls to be 2nd fiddle to Rose. He wanted the next team to be HIS team.

And yet he accepted a trade to the Lakers who had Kobe?

BNM
 
And yet he accepted a trade to the Lakers who had Kobe?

BNM
He didn't agree to an extension beforehand, and walked as a FA.

He could only discourage teams from trading for him. Only the L*kers took the gamble, and lost. But he told them he wouldn't sign.

The Blazers were in the same boat with LMA. Especially the last season. If he wouldn't agree to sign an extension, you risked him walking after giving up a lot for him. Maybe the Blazers and Spurs could have come to a deal, but there's no guarantee LMA would accept it.
 
And the Spurs knew they could get LaMarcooch without sending out a player. We were screwed
 
And the Spurs knew they could get LaMarcooch without sending out a player. We were screwed
And LMA would rather not strip SA of any players or picks.
 
So Crabbe played 32 minutes tonight, and had the highest +\- with 13

CJ played 30 minutes, and like I thought, his offensive production didn't drop at all.

And if you're going to say something about this, come up with something better than "it was only one game"
 
So Crabbe played 32 minutes tonight, and had the highest +\- with 13

CJ played 30 minutes, and like I thought, his offensive production didn't drop at all.

And if you're going to say something about this, come up with something better than "it was only one game"

+/- is not an individual stat. There are nine other players on the court at all times.

BNM
 
I like how Crabbe and Turner are shutting everyone up. AC has found his groove and Turner is starting to look like a good fit.
 
Crabbe was in to close the game. CJ sat much of the time. Crabbe was in for defense. He guarded Jimmy Butler.

ET guarded Wade.

Butler is having a LeBron lite kind of season. 25.7 PPG, 6.7 RPG, 4.1 APG
 
PER = 15.7 and ZERO 6th Man of the Year Votes. There were 19 players that received 6th MOY votes last season. So, by that metric, a guy with a PER = 15.7 was not in the top 19 best 6th men.

Crabbe has a PER = 9.5. So, where does that place him in the 6th man hierarchy? Gibson does other things besides score (great rebounder, solid defender). Crabbe doesn't.

BNM

What a difference one game makes. Crabbe's PER is now 10.0.

No, 10.0 isn't great, but it goes to show how small a sample the stats represent. When one game can make that much a difference.
 
If "something" is nothing, then sure.
Yes, somehow a good stat means nothing when it's about a player you hate. I'm sorry Crabbe played well.

I see the dumbest, most obscure advanced stats thrown around to bash players. But this one can't be used to bash him, so of course it doesn't matter.
 
Yes, somehow a good stat means nothing when it's about a player you hate. I'm sorry Crabbe played well.

I see the dumbest, most obscure advanced stats thrown around to bash players. But this one can't be used to bash him, so of course it doesn't matter.
When did I say I hated Crabbe? But I do know something about stats and using +/- from a single game is completely inappropriate
 
You compared him with hall of famers. 29 teams failed to have a 6th man as good in each of those seasons.

Right.
Now compare their contracts with Crabbe's. Even with the inflation, Crabbe is way overpaid.

He is starting to even it out these days now though.
 
The problem I have with Crabbe is that he's not really in a funk. He is just nondescript for large stretches of minutes. He teased me with his aggressiveness in the preseason and in game 1 of the season.

As for the last game, I only watched the 2nd half. He must have totally dominated the first half, because he completely bricked wide open shot after wide open shot in the 2nd.

I'm certainly not giving up on Crabbe. He's still young, and can improve. He was a star at Cal, It's possible that he can still do everything he does now, but add that star mentality of making things happen.
 
The problem I have with Crabbe is that he's not really in a funk. He is just nondescript for large stretches of minutes. He teased me with his aggressiveness in the preseason and in game 1 of the season.

As for the last game, I only watched the 2nd half. He must have totally dominated the first half, because he completely bricked wide open shot after wide open shot in the 2nd.

I'm certainly not giving up on Crabbe. He's still young, and can improve. He was a star at Cal, It's possible that he can still do everything he does now, but add that star mentality of making things happen.

Great first half. 0-5 in the second half, including 0-4 in the 4th quarter.

BNM
 
So basically, you've got nothing.

I do have something; a basic understanding of +/-.

In all honesty, who do you think had a better game last night, Damian Lillard or Meyers Leonard? Well, if we're going by +/-, they were exactly the same (+1).

If we're going by reality, Meyers played like absolute shit. That was one of the worst games I've ever seen him play (2 pts, 2 reb, 0 ast, 0 stl, 0 blk, 2 TOV, 6 pf)

Yet, he had the exact same +/- as Dame who had 30 pts, 4 reb, 7 assists, 2 stl, 2 blk, 0 TOV, 2 pf. Dame outplayed Meyers in every imaginable way. Yet, they had exactly the same +/-.

This is why using a single game sample size for individual +/- to evaluate how a particular player produced is completely asinine. The individual player is just one of ten players on the court. So, on average the quality of his play only contributes 1/10th of the overall +/- while he's in the game. In the case of a role player like Crabbe, his actual contribution is much less than 1/10th as he doesn't see the ball, or do as much with ts as players like Dame and C.J.

That's why a player like Meyers can play like shit last night and still have a positive +/- for the game. So much of the +/- stat is determined by the quality of play of the other 9 players on the court it is meaningless as an individual stat on a single game basis.

So, saying one player had the best, or worst +/- for a particular game is pointless. Good thing, because Allen Crabbe has had a negative +/- in 16 of the 22 games he's played in this season.

BNM
 
I'm a big fan of Crabbe. He's such a good defender. Probably my favorite bench player

Why is this such a prevailing notion? Crabbe's defense is horribly overrated in this forum. IMO Crabbe is s horrible defender and gets beat A LOT. IMO saying Crabbe is a good defender is like saying Nate McMillan is a good defensive coach.
 
Why is this such a prevailing notion?

Because everyone wants him to be a 3 and D guy. Because that's a label for wing players who can't create their own shot, dribble, pass or rebound.

BNM
 

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