OT America's Crime Wave!

Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)
Homeless people are a real problem with random crimes.

 
So the thug that knocks out an asian lady then casually walks away no fear with his $200 sneakers and $300 coat on. I realize that a % of people that are struggling revert to crime to survive, which is still wrong, but most thugs criminals that are thief's, rapist, gangsta's do it because they like to0. Enforce laws and come down hard on them. If they show sincere willingness to change then, help them help themselves. But if they dont have any respect for people or the law, treat them as hardened criminals.
 
When taking the law into your own hands goes wrong.

 
As someone who loves going to the beach, I'm offended that the word wave is now being tied to crime.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Housing First would make this so much easier to solve. Dangerous people would no longer be able to hide among the masses.

Crime would drop SIGNIFICANTLY.
Click to expand...

Nah, locking them up would be better unless they can prove to be non-destructive. A lot of homeless are mentally ill or drug addicts. Both shouldn't be allowed in society. A junkie with a free hotel room is still going to be a junkie.
 
EL PRESIDENTE said:
Nah, locking them up would be better unless they can prove to be non-destructive. A lot of homeless are mentally ill or drug addicts. Both shouldn't be allowed in society. A junkie with a free hotel room is still going to be a junkie.
Click to expand...
That is the least efficient and most expensive way to treat the problem. In fact, it has never worked, anywhere, without authoritarian powers.

I'm taking a hard pass on the expensive authoritarianism. But thanks for the offer.

I'll choose the proven least expensive, most effective option please .
 
Phatguysrule said:
That is the least efficient and most expensive way to treat the problem. In fact, it has never worked, anywhere, without authoritarian powers.

I'm taking a hard pass on the expensive authoritarianism. But thanks for the offer.

I'll choose the proven least expensive, most effective option please .
Click to expand...

I'll gladly pay more to keep homeless and drug addicts off the streets. The savings will be in the increased quality of life.
 
90
 
EL PRESIDENTE said:
I'll gladly pay more to keep homeless and drug addicts off the streets. The savings will be in the increased quality of life.
Click to expand...
You can keep them off the streets for far less, and help far more of them become productive members of society.

You are advocating to spend 4x as much, and the only different result is more people are tortured and fewer are productive members of society (and higher crime and poverty rates). So paying 4x as much for a plan that doesn't work... Has never worked.

Again, I'll take the option that actually works and costs 1/4 as much. Thanks.
 
Phatguysrule said:
You can keep them off the streets for far less, and help far more of them become productive members of society.

You are advocating to spend 4x as much, and the only different result is more people are tortured and fewer are productive members of society (and higher crime and poverty rates). So paying 4x as much for a plan that doesn't work... Has never worked.

Again, I'll take the option that actually works and costs 1/4 as much. Thanks.
Click to expand...

You're not solving the problem. Drug addiction and mental illness. Like I said, they will still commit crimes. You're just giving them a space indoor to sleep.
 
EL PRESIDENTE said:
You're not solving the problem. Drug addiction and mental illness. Like I said, they will still commit crimes. You're just giving them a space indoor to sleep.
Click to expand...
Housing first addresses mental illness and drug addiction far more effectively than prison. Prison is where people go to learn how to be criminals.

85% of the prison population has an active substance use disorder or were incarcerated for a crime involving drugs or drug use. Inmates with opioid use disorder are at a higher risk for overdose following release from incarceration.
Click to expand...

https://nida.nih.gov/publications/d...overdose following release from incarceration.

So again, the data shows us that with the "prison plan" you are spending quadruple while not solving anything... But actually making the problem worse.

Prisons are a part of the problem. Not the solution.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Housing first addresses mental illness and drug addiction far more effectively than prison. Prison is where people go to learn how to be criminals.

https://nida.nih.gov/publications/drugfacts/criminal-justice#:~:text=85% of the prison population,overdose following release from incarceration.

So again, the data shows us that with the "prison plan" you are spending quadruple while not solving anything... But actually making the problem worse.

Prisons are a part of the problem. Not the solution.
Click to expand...

It wouldn't be a prison. It would be a specifically constructed facility for homeless persons with mental and drug treatment programs.

And you are still allowing druggies and craziest out in public.

https://www.cbs8.com/article/news/l...ment/509-b849c28b-c6c2-4055-b757-8f8c91c3e106
 
It looks like they've set up "Housing First" in LA.

Being here since 1995, the homeless crisis and the associated problems with homeless persons has never been worse.
 
EL PRESIDENTE said:
It wouldn't be a prison. It would be a specifically constructed facility for homeless persons with mental and drug treatment programs.

And you are still allowing druggies and craziest out in public.

https://www.cbs8.com/article/news/l...ment/509-b849c28b-c6c2-4055-b757-8f8c91c3e106
Click to expand...
No, I'm not. You keep making these untrue claims about housing first. Is it deliberate, or do you really not know?

Housing first doesn't prevent dangerous people or other criminals from being put in jail. It gets the other people out of the way so police and social workers can more easily identify the dangerous ones and those who need the most help. And put them where they need to be.
 
Last edited:
EL PRESIDENTE said:
So we don't know if it works. Sounds lame.

All I know is the homeless are a big part of crime problems. They murder, steal and assault people.
Click to expand...
It worked great in Salt Lake City (until the program wasn't renewed after a decade). It works great in Finland...

It works. Housing first is cheaper than prison or mental institutions, and allows mental health and drug treatment programs to be more effective than either allowing them to be homeless or forcing them all in prisons or mental institutions.
 
EL PRESIDENTE said:
So it works great in white populations. Got it
Click to expand...
No, it works for ethnic minorities as well.

https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12889-016-3768-4
The effectiveness of a Housing First adaptation for ethnic minority groups: findings of a pragmatic randomized controlled trial

Little is known about the effectiveness of Housing First (HF) among ethnic minority groups, despite its growing popularity for homeless adults experiencing mental illness. This randomized controlled trial tests the effectiveness of a HF program using rent supplements and intensive case management, enhanced by anti-racism and anti-oppression practices for homeless adults with mental illness from diverse ethnic minority backgrounds.
Methods

This unblinded pragmatic field trial was carried out in community settings in Toronto, Canada. Participants were 237 adults from ethnic minority groups experiencing mental illness and homelessness, who met study criteria for moderate needs for mental health services. Participants were randomized to either adapted HF (n = 135) or usual care (n = 102) and followed every 3 months for 24 months. The primary study outcome was housing stability; secondary outcomes included physical and mental health, social functioning, quality of life, arrests and health service use. Intention to treat statistical analyses examined the effectiveness of the intervention compared to usual care.
Results

During the 24-month study period, HF participants were stably housed a significantly greater proportion of time compared to usual care participants, 75 % (95 % CI 70 to 81) vs. 41 % (95 % CI 35 to 48), respectively, for a difference of 34 %, 95 % CI 25 to 43. HF also led to improvements in community integration over the course of the study: the change in the mean difference between treatment groups from baseline to 24-months was significantly greater among HF participants compared to those in usual care (change in mean difference = 2.2, 95 % CI 0.06 to 4.3). Baseline diagnosis of psychosis was associated with reduced likelihood of being housed ≥ 50 % of the study period (OR = 0.37, 95 % CI 0.18 to 0.72).
Conclusion

Housing First enhanced with anti-racism and anti-oppression practices can improve housing stability and community functioning among ethnically diverse homeless adults with mental illness.
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top